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  1. #1
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    Google Adwords and False Clicks

    What is to prevent you from clicking all day long on your competitors Google Adwords links and costing them money. Apart from your own morals and ethics that is.

    Simon

  2. #2
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    Your index finger getting sore

  3. #3
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    Nothing, but doesnt google keep track of IP's and credit back faulty clicks?

  4. #4
    Originally posted by amish_geek
    Nothing, but doesnt google keep track of IP's and credit back faulty clicks?
    I think his point is, that If Person A doesn't like Person B. Person A can go to Person B's website, and click the hell out of his Adsense, thus sending Red Flags to google of Fradulent clicks, and Person B's Adsense will get disabled for abuse.

    Thus Person A just sabatoged Person B
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  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Trifolic
    I think his point is, that If Person A doesn't like Person B. Person A can go to Person B's website, and click the hell out of his Adsense, thus sending Red Flags to google of Fradulent clicks, and Person B's Adsense will get disabled for abuse.

    Thus Person A just sabatoged Person B
    No..I am talking about Adwords. Not Adsense. How does google know that an IP address is faking the clicks....when it may be someone checking out different options?

    I would like to hear peoples experience of this if in fact you use adwords.

    Simon

  6. #6
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    Google isn't stupid.
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by amusive.com
    Google isn't stupid.
    People used to say that about Enron too

    Simon

  8. #8
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    They arn't but the more people click, the more money they get.. Why would they take the time to develope something to restrict their income? Think about it
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  9. #9
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    Originally posted by thehostworks
    They arn't but the more people click, the more money they get.. Why would they take the time to develope something to restrict their income? Think about it
    The effectiveness and accuracy is what sets their service apart, to allow fraud to increase their profits would harm the business in the long run, right?

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by thehostworks
    They arn't but the more people click, the more money they get.. Why would they take the time to develope something to restrict their income? Think about it
    You should think about it some more....

    If Google didn't have means of watching out for their own Adwords clients (i.e. by making sure their clicks aren't fraudulent and that they're getting the most value for their buck), then the Google Adwords program would have failed already. It is only a huge success because Adwords is very effective (if used properly).

    How ineffective would Adwords be, and how FAST would the entire service be abandoned if Google thought like you and didn't support their own clients, and was just in it for the money. Think about it
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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by SimonMc
    People used to say that about Enron too

    Simon
    I don't recall that. Anyway, I never said it, and my opinion is the only one that counts, anyway.
    Jim Reardon - jim/amusive.com

  12. #12
    So far from posts I've seen on other forums, you can click on Google ads all day and Google will charge the advertiser for the clicks whether they know they're fraudulent or not. People have logged many clicks from the same IP in a small time frame and didn't get refunded by Google. I've also read of not being paid for fraudulent clicks in AdSense after being notified of them, but the advertisers saying they didn't receive any credit for it when contacted.

    But maybe they're just stories.
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Dan Grossman
    So far from posts I've seen on other forums, you can click on Google ads all day and Google will charge the advertiser for the clicks whether they know they're fraudulent or not.
    Barely a month goes by that I don't see a credit from Google for fraudulent clicks they've detected on at least one client account.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  14. #14
    That's great then. I spend a couple hundred a month on AdWords and that's a better report than I've heard.
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  15. #15
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    Originally posted by Dan Grossman
    That's great then. I spend a couple hundred a month on AdWords and that's a better report than I've heard.
    I spend over a grand a month and I have never had a dime back.

    Barely a month goes by that I don't see a credit from Google for fraudulent clicks they've detected on at least one client account.
    Can you prove you have had fraud clicks credited back? How did you alert Google of these? Did Google just pay you back and tell you it was fraud?

    Sorry if it sounds like I disbelieve but you hear so much rumour about these things and it seems like ZERO facts.

    Simon

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by SimonMc
    Can you prove you have had fraud clicks credited back? How did you alert Google of these? Did Google just pay you back and tell you it was fraud?
    Nope, can't prove it and I'm not interested in doing so. I've never actively detected false clicks, nor have I ever tried to. From time to time there's a credit on an account, similar to the way they credit back for overdelivery.

    I don't know what the odds of seeing it may be on one typical account; this is over a fair number of accounts with some accounts running into five figures monthly.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by JayC
    Nope, can't prove it and I'm not interested in doing so. I've never actively detected false clicks, nor have I ever tried to. From time to time there's a credit on an account, similar to the way they credit back for overdelivery.

    I don't know what the odds of seeing it may be on one typical account; this is over a fair number of accounts with some accounts running into five figures monthly.
    Oh well...that goes down in the book of more hearsay then. Never mind.

    Simon

  18. #18
    It's not a court trial, Simon, it's just a discussion. He's sharing his experience, and we're all intelligent enough to realize unsubstantiated claims are possibly false, although we tend to give some weight to things said by respected members.
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  19. #19
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    Originally posted by Dan Grossman
    It's not a court trial, Simon, it's just a discussion. He's sharing his experience, and we're all intelligent enough to realize unsubstantiated claims are possibly false, although we tend to give some weight to things said by respected members.
    What are you getting at Dan? Why the trial speach?

    My point is...if you read the thread....what is to stop people clicking through on adwords fraudulantly?

    So far I have heard ..well google is smart. Well google wouldn't do that that...would they. Plus...we got reimbursed but I have nothing to prove it. Nor do I care to prove it.

    So...my point was...it's all just hearsay then. My point...in this discussion...or am I not allowed to have my point in this discussion. Anyway..SHOW ME THE PROOF! I personally agree with your earlier point. Click away all day and google does nothing. Apart from collect the cash that is.

    Simon

  20. #20
    Why bother participating in this thread then? Nobody's going to give you copies of their financials or other hard proof of anything Google's done, beyond screenshots, which anyone who spends a good amount on Google probably isn't willing to provide, and aren't good 'proof' anyway. You don't need evidence to give input in a discussion; the participants in a forum thread have to use a little discretion in evaluating the validity of any post... it's just something you do subconsciously whenever you read something. I see 3699 posts, Community Guide, and probably no good reason to lie, so why not believe him, or at least not discount him.
    Dan Grossman - dan @ awio.com
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  21. #21
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    OK, here's one answer:

    Originally posted by SimonMc
    What is to prevent you from clicking all day long on your competitors Google Adwords links and costing them money.
    Clicking "all day long" is pretty easy to spot. Just a few clicks may help your competitor more than it hurts them: since CTR is half of the ranking formula, if you help increase that number you'll improve their positioning and/or drop their click cost.

    I even know of people who click their own ads occasionally to help CTR on a given ad. Sorry, though, I can't prove that.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  22. #22
    That's a good point... and a good idea actually, if it wasn't unethical. It's very difficult to keep my CTR high enough not to be disabled on some broad search terms. I guess I should be asking competitors to click my ads more
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  23. #23
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    Re: Re: Google Adwords and False Clicks

    Originally posted by JayC
    OK, here's one answer:

    Clicking "all day long" is pretty easy to spot. Just a few clicks may help your competitor more than it hurts them: since CTR is half of the ranking formula, if you help increase that number you'll improve their positioning and/or drop their click cost.

    I even know of people who click their own ads occasionally to help CTR on a given ad (but I can't prove that).
    I don't disbelieve you in the least. It is just that when people discuss these things it is mostly with no experience or proof.

    I personally never look at peoples post count before I interact with them. Just because someone has 3000 post to their name just means they have a lot to say. Not that what they have to say actually means more than someone with one post.

    No disrespect meant or intended to you JayC. I just like to have the whole picture...thats all. I appreciate that is not always possible so what was said without proof just becomes hearsay...thats all.

    Simon

  24. #24
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    I think the IP tracker will allow you person clicking 500000 times to count just as one click. Also, it will block you if that person is you and your account.

  25. #25
    What IP tracker?
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  26. #26
    I'm sure that people do this...

  27. #27
    Do what? Click on others' ads? Click on their own ads to increase CTR? You guys need to explain what you're referring to when you post.
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  28. #28
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    I have always suspected that Adsense records the IPs you use to log in to your Adsense account. Then any clicks on your ads from your IPs are rejected. Simple.

  29. #29
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    they have a system in place, I'm sure if you go clicking your own ads or bombard a competitors ad with clicks they will know about it

    No, I don't have any proof, do I need any?

  30. #30
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    Originally posted by sightz
    I have always suspected that Adsense records the IPs you use to log in to your Adsense account. Then any clicks on your ads from your IPs are rejected. Simple.
    This thread is not about Adsense.

    Simon

  31. #31
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    Originally posted by JayC

    Clicking "all day long" is pretty easy to spot. Just a few clicks may help your competitor more than it hurts them: since CTR is half of the ranking formula, if you help increase that number you'll improve their positioning and/or drop their click cost.

    I even know of people who click their own ads occasionally to help CTR on a given ad.
    OK..So if the person clicks his own ads then...you beleive that there is no IP tracker as some have mentioned. Otherwise ...why would they bother.

    In addition to that...how is it improving your sitiuation if your competitors spend most of your money. Your CTR is irrelevant if you have no money left for the day.

    Simon

  32. #32
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    I think the burden of proof lies with the advertiser regarding repeat false clicks on Adword ads.

    Imagine these situations:

    1. A person repeatedly clicks on the advertisement from the same system for whatever reason he has.

    2. A college/school public access system has their students clicking on a advertsiment on a particualar website. Such a situation may not be common but not impossible:

    3. Similar situation as above on the day of a cricket match/beauty peageant/etc in India or China where the internet penetration is low so people head for the public access cafes.

    So how is Google able to differentiate the false clicks from the genuine ones ?

  33. #33
    I was searching google for something the other day, can't remember what now, but one site I clicked on had a popup that said "you have clicked on our ad several times, please bookmark our site"....I thought it was kind of tacky. Whatever I was looking for, I didn't buy it from them...


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  34. #34
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    Ok...

    If you click on other hosts ads in moderation, there is nothing to stop you, other than ethics. However, if you go at it, clicking all day long, even 5+ times, they will often be refunded, or those clicks won't count, it can be either.

    I've seen it happen many many times, I'm with JayC on this one.

    Adwords and Adsense are directly related. If I click on my Adsense to rev up my Adsense revenue, I'm also costing another company a lot of Adwords expenses.

    Google watches Adsense much closer than Adwords, of course....they are much more worried about what they have to pay out, than what they receive..but, if they don't maintain the integrity of their advertising programs, they will lose customers, which will cost them money.

    In the end, you could probably click 10-15 times a month on your competetors add and get away with it, but you can't click 10-15 times a day.

    You also can't click 10-15 times a day on your Adsesnse and get away with it...probably not even 10-15 a month.

  35. #35
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    Originally posted by SimonMc
    OK..So if the person clicks his own ads then...you beleive that there is no IP tracker as some have mentioned. Otherwise ...why would they bother.

    In addition to that...how is it improving your sitiuation if your competitors spend most of your money. Your CTR is irrelevant if you have no money left for the day.
    Apparently you missed two phrases in the post you quoted: "just a few clicks" and "click their own ads occasionally. Also, "clicking all day long is pretty easy to spot."

    I don't see how anything in my post would lead you to think that I believe they do no IP tracking.

    The bottom line is that no matter what kind of tracking is done by an ad network or by an advertiser, there are going to be false or fraudulent clicks. They're part of the game, in the same way that shoplifting or employee theft are for a retail store. They certainly reduce your effective conversion rate, and there's no way to know by how much. They're part of the formula, and are an indirect expense in PPC advertising. You, and Google or any ad network, can work to minimize them, but they'll always be there.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

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