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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
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    250

    Windows hosting with MSDE (not standard SQL Server).

    I've just found a company that says they offer a shared MsSQLServer. They give you n number of databases.
    I just discoverd they are not using the full MsSQL Server, but instead they use MSDE, that is a very, very limited version of SQL Server.
    You can use MSDE to host, let's say, one single site.
    But this guys already has 300 site hosted here and I see there are like 80 databases created.

    (For more information on how MSDE works, take a look at: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/te...orkloadgov.asp)

    This is terrible since the performance will eventually slowdown all sites hosted there, mine among them.

    I was wondering how serious should be taken this "mistake" in advertising.

    Does others providers do the same ?
    Can you tell any hosting company that offers a share of standard MsSQL, not MSDE ?


    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    250

    Re: Windows hosting with MSDE (not standard SQL Server).

    Originally posted by fischermx
    I've just found a company that says they offer a shared MsSQLServer. They give you n number of databases.
    I just discoverd they are not using the full MsSQL Server, but instead they use MSDE, that is a very, very limited version of SQL Server.
    You can use MSDE to host, let's say, one single site.
    But this guys already has 300 site hosted here and I see there are like 80 databases created.

    (For more information on how MSDE works, take a look at: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/te...orkloadgov.asp)

    This is terrible since the performance will eventually slowdown all sites hosted there, mine among them.

    I was wondering how serious should be taken this "mistake" in advertising.

    Does others providers do the same ?
    Can you tell any hosting company that offers a share of standard MsSQL, not MSDE ?


    Thanks

    The silence to this thread make me feel a bit embarrassed.

    I either made a big mistake in pointing out this or this is something that everybody does it and everybody knew about, except me.

  3. #3

    SQL cost

    to properly license SQL the cost is around $250/month per processor. Are you paying enough to justify that ?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    250

    Re: SQL cost

    Originally posted by Aoxomoxoa
    to properly license SQL the cost is around $250/month per processor. Are you paying enough to justify that ?
    Thanks for the info. That confirmed my point : everybody does it, everybody knows about it, except me.

    Respecting your quoted price, I think it is a bit high over the reality and may that even be for the enterprise version, which is pointless here, since the standard is really enough for most mortals. I may be wrong anyway.

    But, since I am sharing the server with another 300 customers in this moment (I am sure it will grow a digit), that's like a less than $1.00 for each of us.

    I'm paying like $40.00/month, so, I think yes, I guess am paying enough.

    Regards,

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Waco, TX
    Posts
    5,623
    MSDE is not a product MS will license for a web host to use, you can see more about the license structure web hosts are supposed to use here:

    http://www.microsoftspla.com/

  6. #6

    Re: Windows hosting with MSDE (not standard SQL Server).

    Originally posted by fischermx
    But this guys already has 300 site hosted here and I see there are like 80 databases created.
    You sure he's using MSDE? MSDE caps out a 16 databases. 80 would have to be a SQL Server.
    Primal Blue Software, Inc.
    primalblue.com

  7. #7

    Re: Re: SQL cost

    Originally posted by fischermx
    Thanks for the info. That confirmed my point : everybody does it, everybody knows about it, except me.

    Respecting your quoted price, I think it is a bit high over the reality and may that even be for the enterprise version, which is pointless here, since the standard is really enough for most mortals. I may be wrong anyway.

    But, since I am sharing the server with another 300 customers in this moment (I am sure it will grow a digit), that's like a less than $1.00 for each of us.

    I'm paying like $40.00/month, so, I think yes, I guess am paying enough.

    Regards,
    No one does it. It is not practical, it is not scalable and it is illegal.

    There is nothing more to say.

    Originally posted by Primal Blue
    You sure he's using MSDE? MSDE caps out a 16 databases. 80 would have to be a SQL Server.
    ... yes. how did you know it was MSDE?
    Mediopia Technologies, Inc - Call Toll Free (24 x 7): 1-877-807-HOST
    Windows and Linux Reseller and Shared Web Hosting Plans
    SiteStudio, ASP, ASP.net, PHP, CGI, Coldfusion MX 6.1, Frontpage, MS SQL Server, MySQL, PgSQL ...
    http://www.mediopia.biz/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    250

    Re: Re: Windows hosting with MSDE (not standard SQL Server).

    Originally posted by Primal Blue
    You sure he's using MSDE? MSDE caps out a 16 databases. 80 would have to be a SQL Server.

    Thanks for your comment.

    Just let me add :
    1.- I've just run re-verified it :
    Microsoft SQL Server 2000 - 8.00.760 (Intel X86)
    Dec 17 2002 14:22:05
    Copyright (c) 1988-2003 Microsoft Corporation
    Desktop Engine on Windows NT 5.2 (Build 3790: )

    2.- The next quote is from the workload governor explanation document, there's no such thing as a 16 databases cap. You could check this link to get more information : http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/te...orkloadgov.asp

    "The workload governor operates at the level of an instance of the database engine, not at the level of a database. Each instance can have up to 32,767 databases. The workload governor is activated when there are more than eight active concurrent operations in the instance, even if each operation is working in a different database."


    The only limit is a 2GB per databases AND the workload governor (my worriness).

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    250
    Originally posted by amd_duron
    MSDE is not a product MS will license for a web host to use, you can see more about the license structure web hosts are supposed to use here:

    http://www.microsoftspla.com/

    Funny thing !

    It is in the main MSDE page at microsoft :

    http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/

    "and websites serving up to 25 concurrent users."

  10. #10

    Re: Re: Re: Windows hosting with MSDE (not standard SQL Server).

    Originally posted by fischermx
    Thanks for your comment.

    Just let me add :
    1.- I've just run re-verified it :
    Microsoft SQL Server 2000 - 8.00.760 (Intel X86)
    Dec 17 2002 14:22:05
    Copyright (c) 1988-2003 Microsoft Corporation
    Desktop Engine on Windows NT 5.2 (Build 3790: )

    2.- The next quote is from the workload governor explanation document, there's no such thing as a 16 databases cap. You could check this link to get more information : http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/te...orkloadgov.asp

    "The workload governor operates at the level of an instance of the database engine, not at the level of a database. Each instance can have up to 32,767 databases. The workload governor is activated when there are more than eight active concurrent operations in the instance, even if each operation is working in a different database."


    The only limit is a 2GB per databases AND the workload governor (my worriness).
    wow that really does seem like MSDE. Mind sharing the name of host?

    Regards,
    Mediopia Technologies, Inc - Call Toll Free (24 x 7): 1-877-807-HOST
    Windows and Linux Reseller and Shared Web Hosting Plans
    SiteStudio, ASP, ASP.net, PHP, CGI, Coldfusion MX 6.1, Frontpage, MS SQL Server, MySQL, PgSQL ...
    http://www.mediopia.biz/

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    250

    Re: Re: Re: SQL cost

    Originally posted by mediopia
    No one does it. It is not practical, it is not scalable and it is illegal.

    There is nothing more to say.

    ... yes. how did you know it was MSDE?

    Thank God I am getting your attention guys.

    That's what I'm saying, they did it and I know it is illegal.

    How do I know it is MSDE ?
    Plain easy, just loggin using SQL Analyzer or any way to run this command :
    Print @@Version :
    It will display :
    (Look at the last line)

    Microsoft SQL Server 2000 - 8.00.760 (Intel X86)
    Dec 17 2002 14:22:05
    Copyright (c) 1988-2003 Microsoft Corporation
    Desktop Engine on Windows NT 5.2 (Build 3790: )


    Now see this, from an Enterprise MsSQL instalation :

    Microsoft SQL Server 2000 - 8.00.760 (Intel X86)
    Dec 17 2002 14:22:05
    Copyright (c) 1988-2003 Microsoft Corporation
    Enterprise Edition on Windows NT 5.0 (Build 2195: Service Pack 4)

  12. #12

    Re: Re: Re: Windows hosting with MSDE (not standard SQL Server).

    Originally posted by fischermx
    The only limit is a 2GB per databases AND the workload governor (my worriness).
    Quote from http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/pr...o/features.asp

    "MSDE 2000 supports up to 16 database server instances on a single computer."
    Primal Blue Software, Inc.
    primalblue.com

  13. #13
    Sorry, I've gotten off topic. Yes you should question what you are getting. It just surprises me that it could have more the 16 databases.

    If you are paying for SQL you should get SQL.

    What does your host say?
    Primal Blue Software, Inc.
    primalblue.com

  14. #14

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Windows hosting with MSDE (not standard SQL Server).

    Originally posted by Primal Blue
    Quote from http://www.microsoft.com/sql/msde/pr...o/features.asp

    "MSDE 2000 supports up to 16 database server instances on a single computer."
    No of instances and No of Databases are two different things

    Regards,
    Mediopia Technologies, Inc - Call Toll Free (24 x 7): 1-877-807-HOST
    Windows and Linux Reseller and Shared Web Hosting Plans
    SiteStudio, ASP, ASP.net, PHP, CGI, Coldfusion MX 6.1, Frontpage, MS SQL Server, MySQL, PgSQL ...
    http://www.mediopia.biz/

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    250
    Originally posted by Primal Blue
    Sorry, I've gotten off topic. Yes you should question what you are getting. It just surprises me that it could have more the 16 databases.

    If you are paying for SQL you should get SQL.

    What does your host say?
    I would offer an apologyse in name of Microsoft.

    Database instance is a bit missleading term.
    What they mean, is that you can install 16 times the MSDE service, in a single computer.

    Each one having the limitations of 2GB per database and the workload governor. Each of this can have 32,767 databases.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    250
    Originally posted by Primal Blue
    Sorry, I've gotten off topic. Yes you should question what you are getting. It just surprises me that it could have more the 16 databases.

    If you are paying for SQL you should get SQL.

    What does your host say?
    The hosting company advertise "up to 5 MSSQL 2000 Databases", just like everybody else annouce it.

    I really don't know what to do.
    Other than this little "advertising mistake" I'm pretty happy with their service. Both connection and response is impressive.
    Support guys always answer within an hour, even in minutes in working hours. Price is fair.

    I think I'll seat and I hope they see this thread and since it seems they're the only doing this, they will know who are we talking about .
    So, I hope they discretely update the software to what they have advertised, or change their advertising.
    Then, I'll take a decision.

    Thanks all for your time.

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