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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    Fair price for APC remote reboot?

    Well to make a long story short, we are adding APC Switched Rack PDU (remote reboot) hardware to all our colo racks..

    Basicly before I start offering it to existing and future clients.. I need to figure a fair price..

    I was thinking somewhere around $5.00 per outlet per month.

    Certainly $5.00 is a small price to pay when your server is crashed at 1am on Sunday when there no one awake to reboot it until Monday..

    Opinons?
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  2. #2
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    Oct 2003
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    I would think you could be a little higher. Something like $10 - $20 per month.

  3. #3
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    Interesting.. I didnt know it was worth that much.. Then again, If I put myself in the clients shoes, even $15 is worth the peice of mind knowing you can control the power to your equipment.
    The Hostworks:: Offering Managed and Unmanaged VPS
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  4. #4
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    Mar 2003
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    FDCServers charges $9.00 if that helps you at all.

  5. #5
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    Jul 2002
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    I offer it free to customers. But then again I do not offer colo / dedicated hosting for insanely cheap prices =)

  6. #6
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    Nov 2003
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    Ohio
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    Most Hosts and Companies charge upwards $20 for APC's. That would be a nice marketing label if you offer them for that cheap ($5).

  7. #7
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    If you feel comfortable at $5 each then go for it, most I've seen were $10-$20 per port per month for the service, and yes it's worth it to have, I'd pay an extra $10 per month if I were renting a dedicated server to have this functionality.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  8. #8
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    May 2002
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    Sunny California
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    I vote for $10/month. We sell about 60% of our dedicated/colo customers an APC remote reboot port at this price. For most people, it is worth the extra money.
    Erica Douglass, Founder, Simpli Hosting, Inc.
    I founded Simpli Hosting, and sold it in 2007 to Silicon Valley Web Hosting after over 6 years in the business.
    Now I'm blogging at erica.biz!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    390
    Same here, $10/month is what I would be willing to pay. Or, you could include that in your "per U" cost (of course increase per U cost by $10/U) and promote it as "FREE Remote Reboots for all servers".

    You can buy used masterswitches on ebay for like $300. Assuming that you sell each port for $10/month that means you are bringing in $80/month minus what your cost is for 1 U of space.

  10. #10
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    Feb 2004
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    Louisville, Kentucky
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    It's tough to depend on used equipment pricing to remain stable when you use that to figure cost of goods sold.
    Jeff at Innovative Network Concepts / 212-981-0607 x8579 / AIM: jeffsw6
    Expert IP network consultation and operation at affordable rates
    95th Percentile Explained Rate-Limiting on Cisco IOS switches

  11. #11
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    Sep 2002
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    London/Edinburgh
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    Hello.

    We charge 10/MONTH ($18.30USD)
    $5 Would be an excellent for customers.

    We are based in the UK, and i believe 10 is a good price.

    Regards,
    Thomas Currie
    Europhase UK Limited - XEN/OpenVZ UK/US Virtual Private Servers | R1Soft Backups for Web Hosts
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  12. #12
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    Jul 2002
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    London, United Kingdom
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    on colo/dedicated plans they're included in the pricing, on cheaper plans they're 10 or 20/month on our valuecolo service

    when working your pricing out ... remember to calculate
    cost of the apc
    cost of the 1u
    cost of the cables
    cost of reflashing them when they corrupt, get hacked, or announce new vulnerabilities
    cost of a filetered supply to them - you do *not* want them rebooting 8 servers due to a bad bid of power ...
    cost of at leats 1 spare, they *can* go wrong ...

    that gets you the cost to you as business to provide them, from there you can add a bit for the client convenience and come up with a value per apc, then a value per outlet.

    we tend to leave 1 outlet empty on them all in case anything develops a fault or we need additional power at one point in a rack quickly, we keep spares onsite, and plenty of iec-iec power leads.

    HTH
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  13. #13
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    Aug 2002
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    Atlanta, GA
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    We offer it at $10.00 per month and have never had anyone say it was to much.
    SiteSouth
    Atlanta, GA and Las Vegas, NV. Colocation

  14. #14
    Same here $10 dollars a month and no complaints at all.

    Regards
    Phillip
    www.SURRENDERONLINE.com.au
    Perfect Solutions Every Time! Sydney Based :: Dedicated Servers :: Colocation :: Superior Support::Reseller Solutions

  15. #15
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    Aug 2002
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    Seattle
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    $20/mo is our rate.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    Work out the cost over a 36 month amortization.

    say take an apc masterswitch, I forget the model # but the one with 8 power ports and 8 serial ports.. I think I bought a couple for $600 18 months ago..

    Let's say you get it on a line of credit for 36 months, at 15% annual interest. Your monthly payment will be $20.80, and your total cost is going to be $748.80..

    That means your monthly cost per port is going to be $2.60 + .86 for maintenance (going on the general rule that maintenance costs are 1/3 of the cost of the hardware).

    So for the low-low-low cost of $3.46 per month, a server can be on a reboot switch, with an apc serial connect (good if you have APC UPS, then you can hae the UPS send out a serial and an snmp "shutdown notice" when the power is about to go out).

    Work that into your cost, and then tell your customers $10 per month, waived with a yearly contract.

    Personally, I feel remote reboot services is a must for any colocation or dedicated server customer, and should always be worked into cost.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    962

    Ripoff at $20.

    Originally posted by Dixiesys
    If you feel comfortable at $5 each then go for it, most I've seen were $10-$20 per port per month for the service, and yes it's worth it to have, I'd pay an extra $10 per month if I were renting a dedicated server to have this functionality.
    I say sell it at cost, or no more than 20% profit.

    Look at it this way.

    If you pay a NOC tech $20 an hour, and he/she has to reboot a problem customer's server three-times a week, and that takes him/her 15 minutes each time to take the call, locate the port, reboot the box, wait for it to come up, and call the customer back with an "OK" call, then close out the ticket with a well-written "ticket summary' in your ticekting system, then that means every reboot call costs you $5. That's $15 a week for that customer, or $60 a month in support costs. Now take into account the fact that hiring somebody means 1.5X their salary, it's more like $90/month in support costs for that customer. No wonder so many hosting companies don't last.

    Now, you're also saying that the tinkerer customer who breaks his/her box for 30 minutes a week, well that's 2 hours of downtime a month, even if it is their fault.. This means the customer is eventually going to speak to somebody else in their industry who hosts at bob's super-dooper el-cheapo colocation facility, and leaves you because of the "constant downtime" (people like to lie to themselves).

    If you had invested the extra $3.50 per port per customer per month for reboot, and $5 per port per customer per month, that's a $32/month savings in support cost per customer (in a nightmare scenario of a customer who manages to break things often).

    Of course, this information is moot depending upon where you make your margins.. If your margins are in bandwidth, then it's valid, but if your margins are on real estate, ac, and power markups, then it's less of an issue, but still a feature that makes you look good.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    468
    Charge per reboot like my colo does (cost varies from $25 to $150 depending on time/date).

    Either that or they pay for a VERY affordable $25/mo port fee on the APC. =)

  19. #19
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    Re: Ripoff at $20.

    Originally posted by mhalligan
    I say sell it at cost, or no more than 20% profit.
    I hope you're a really good network admin or something because you're obviously a terrible business man.

    "sell it at cost, or no more than 20% profit" I don't mean to make fun but this is one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard around here in a long time. You charge what the market will allow and selling at cost is just not an option unless it's part of a bundle where the rest of the stuff is at a nice markup. Profits make the world go round.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  20. #20
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    Aug 2002
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    Atlanta, GA
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    I love that line to Gary.

    People think oh just buy a switch and make a little money. Right now I own about $18,000 in APC reboot switches. I should just break even on them don't you think? They didn't cost me that much, they work by magic you know and they never break.
    SiteSouth
    Atlanta, GA and Las Vegas, NV. Colocation

  21. #21
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    Nov 2001
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    The South
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    Originally posted by mgphoto
    I love that line to Gary.

    People think oh just buy a switch and make a little money. Right now I own about $18,000 in APC reboot switches. I should just break even on them don't you think? They didn't cost me that much, they work by magic you know and they never break.
    Ya they program themselves, and set their own passwords if the customer forgets or wants to change it, and no they never ever break, and they just jump into the rack all by themselves and are mounted in the wink of an eye. Nor do I have a mortgage or car payment to pay so hell let's just sell everything at cost or a mere 20% markup!

    Drinks are on me too!
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    962
    Originally posted by amps
    Charge per reboot like my colo does (cost varies from $25 to $150 depending on time/date).

    Either that or they pay for a VERY affordable $25/mo port fee on the APC. =)
    Scoff as you will, but my customers are very loyal. My hosting business is small since it hasn't been my primary focus, but I've got customes who've hosted with me for 4 years, and I've lost 12 customers (out of about 140) over the past 4 years, and that was all due to insolvency..

    Besides, it's a moot point. Plain and simple, it's all about where your margins are. My margins are in my consulting business, and my network, not in basic infrastructure..

    Then again, I provide my customers with more features than probably 95% of the companies represented on WHT, at a small profit, and that has breed loyalty.

  23. #23
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    Feb 2004
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    Louisville, Kentucky
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    What features do you provide your customers, which you believe are not available from 95% of the hosting companies represented on WHT?
    Jeff at Innovative Network Concepts / 212-981-0607 x8579 / AIM: jeffsw6
    Expert IP network consultation and operation at affordable rates
    95th Percentile Explained Rate-Limiting on Cisco IOS switches

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
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    962
    Originally posted by jsw6
    What features do you provide your customers, which you believe are not available from 95% of the hosting companies represented on WHT?
    To begin with :

    Nightly backup with weekly rotation, 2-copy rule (2 copies onto
    hard disk, 2 copies onto tape, one copy of tape and hard disk offsite)
    Remote console
    Remote Reboot
    Redundant power
    Staging environment
    Minimum 2 servers (I only do dedicated servers in an active-active loadbalanced environment)
    Dial-in access to remote console server
    Automated monitoring & pager services
    Underutilized network ( I don't do outrageous overselling like some)
    Hosting at a facility with N+2 power
    UPS, with APM reboot and shutdown notifications
    Netbooting and configuration control of dedicated servers
    Mirrored drives on dedicated servers


    Mind you, I'm not a huge operation.. I've got about 40 colo boxes, 40 dedicated servers, and around 80+ virtual servers on a cluster I built) but I run it all with just myself, a partner, and the great remote hands services at my datacenter..

    Through very intelligent engineering I can be profitable at this level, while still working a full-time job, consulting on the side, and being confident that I could almost double my current install base before I needed to hire more hands.

  25. #25
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    Feb 2004
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    Louisville, Kentucky
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    While I am impressed by your filesystem backup offering, I think you'd find that many more than 5% of the hosting companies represented on WHT can provide everything else you've listed. The remaining exception may be dial-in serial console access, which I see as of little value when compared to more modern KVM-over-IP solutions. I'm not worried about customers having a need to dial in to their systems, as if my IP network is broken, I'll have bigger concerns!
    Jeff at Innovative Network Concepts / 212-981-0607 x8579 / AIM: jeffsw6
    Expert IP network consultation and operation at affordable rates
    95th Percentile Explained Rate-Limiting on Cisco IOS switches

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    962
    Ok, maybe my % was a bit off... Now that I'm considering making my hosting business more of a priority than it has been the past few years, I'm still learning the 'other guy' ropes..

    The dial-in serial console access ends up being pretty nice, both for me and my customers.. Just a while ago I had a customer who was at a trade show in thailand, and couldn't get net access for whatever reason.. Dialing-in let him do some maintenance and a web push (though he didn't have the # handy and had to call me at 1am, d'oh).

    I'm not the biggest fan of KVM over IP. I'd love to use them, but I don't think they're cost effective.. The only ones that really look useful to me at the avocents, and the last I found they were around $250+ per port.


    And in terms of "can provide" or "do provide" is a different ballpark. I provide all of these services as standard to my customers, and then some. Basically I don't provide low-end service, and charge somewhat of a premium for how I build things. It's not for everyone, but so far my customers are all happy.

    I'm an infrastructure architect by profession, and I just have the knowledge and resources to treat my hosting datacenter the same way I'd treat a trading floor or a large ASP, keeping all of the principles of infrastructure engineering in mind.

  27. #27
    I like to give deals to my good customers, maybe you could give it free to your big customers and get there loyalty?


    -Matt

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