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  1. #1
    I just got a phone call from an images selling company emanding that I pay $70 for their royalty free image.

    Oops...It seems that I am one of those that do not understand English.

    I went to said companies image site, and saw that some images where "Royalty Free."

    I presumed that royalty is the thing that you pay when you get something that is copyright.

    This is from merriam webster.

    "a payment to an author or composer for each copy of a work sold or to an inventor for each item sold under a patent "

    They were clearly selling one megabyte downloads of the image for $70. But I presumed that the smaller (mine is 80kb) image was as it said "royalty free," I had a look around the site, for some mention of terms of use. Could not find any and oh dear

    Put the image on my website.

    I swear that I thought that it was free.

    A about a month later I get an email from them saying thanks for joining.

    I write back to them saying thank you for his wonderful resource and by the way who do you want to be credited. "I have credited you by saying Your company with a link, should I mention the orginal angency name too." I also gave them a link to my site.

    They phoned me within the hour to say pay up....A sales rep explained this for a long time, repeating that I had to pay.

    Hmm....

    Searching the web for "Royalty Free" it seems that yup, this does not mean you do not have to pay the royalty but that you are not buying the copyright when you purchase use.

    So I guess that I should pay up.

    At the same time I feel pretty done down...

    Am I the only nerd to have thought that "royalty free" means free of rolayties? That royalties do not have to be paid? My interpretation of this word does not seem to be strange at all.

    I hear that under British law at least, and others as far as I am aware, that say that one needs to know that one is being sold something, that a contract is taking place, before one can be expected to pay up. For example if someone stands handing out pieces of paper in the street and then runs after people that took them from his hand and says "pay up!" then they can say that "eh, I thought this piece of paper is free," and they do not have to pay. The issue is whether the "buyer" should have known, whether they they were given fair warning that they were entering into a contract.

    When I saw an image which said on it "royalty free" and I downloaded it (right click) and used it on my web site, was I given fair warning that the photograph was not free at all.

    Why didn't they disable right click? Why didn't they have a link to the meaning of royalty free (the phrase is not linked) why wasn't there a water mark on the photgraph (it seems that there is one if one is a member).

    I decided to pay up. The guy phones me up again and offers to send me a catalogue....

    Hmm.....

    There are a lot of web sites out there that have "courtesy of that company." I wonder they are aware that the images are not provided "courtesy" at all
    Last edited by anon-e-mouse; 03-12-2004 at 03:11 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Thread split and moved to Website and Graphic Design.
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  3. #3
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    It's very simple really.

    Royalty free means you only have to pay one time for using the image, no matter if you use it 1 or 10 times on your site/brochure/whatever - of course that doesn't mean you can resell it or anything, it just basically means "one time fee".

    Rights managed means how much you pay depends on how you want to use it, different fees for different kind of uses ( web, print, TV etc) might apply and/or a monthly/annual/weekly/whatever fee be charged as well.

    Both scenarios have nothing to do with buying the copyright - it's just 2 different fee structures so to speak.

    Always amazes me how people think something won't cost anything as soon as they read the word "free"....
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  4. #4
    Yes, It is clear to me now. I am very clear on the use of these words in certain domains (particularly internet image providers).

    But please allow me to point out that I did not just read the word "free" I read the word "Royalty free." As noted above, the word royalty is commonly used to refer to the money that one pays to use something like a photograph. So, it seems to me, that I did not make a great leap of the imagination by presumining that they were saying that I would not have to pay a royalty.

    Is is amazing? If it is amazing then I am wrong, but as far as I am aware, the usage of royalty that i am assering is very common, hence it is not amazing at all, but merely a very common usage.

    E.g. If I wrote on my web site "Free do download" and then asked for people for money if they used it would that be fair? Or if I said "free photo" and then afterwards said "free for you to look at but not to show anyone else."

    The phrase "royalty free" seems to be saying you don't have to pay royalty.

    Or apparently not?

    I really must have forgotten English language usage.

    By the way, as I mentioned before, I presumed that they were making their money from the larger formats (which one would need if one were going to print anything for commercial reasons). "won't cost anything" to me meant that I had paid, in so far as we pay for commercial television for instance, by viewing their advertisements. I noted the service and I might even have used it again when I am next making a poster or something.

    Please will a couple more people tell me that my understanding of English is amazing.
    Last edited by anon-e-mouse; 03-12-2004 at 02:20 AM.
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  5. #5
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    You still don't get it.

    Despite what your definition of royalty is in the media/music/etc business it's a common term that basically means percentage or other share of *every single sold* item - in other words, *more than once*.

    So again, that's why "royalty free" means "one time fee only, no reoccuring fees".

    What amazing is that i'm german, living in germany and have to tell you how english language works.

    I mean, is it so hard for you to accept that "Royalty" and "Royalty free" are standard industry terms ?
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  6. #6
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    Ditto, Beatz.
    Yes, "Royality-Free (RF)" doesn't mean free. The best explanation can be found here:
    http://creative.gettyimages.com/source/home/license.asp
    If webdesign/gfx design is your job you can buy full CDs (as me): $300-400 for 100-120 photos (high resolution).

    Or use sites like hemera.com , photos.com to save your money.

    Nat
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  7. #7
    timtak, the word "free" doesn't mean 0$.

    For example, the way linux is free.
    Its free as in the source is free, it doesn't mean that its free as in you don't have to pay for it.

    royalty free, means that once you own the image you own the image, its yours, there are no extra fees on anything.

    it doesn't mean that its free as in you dont have to buy it.

    I can see how you could get confused, hope its more clear now.

    Best,
    Eugene.
    IWDN - Really smart web developers... and me!
    More than any time in history mankind faces a crossroads.
    One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total extinction.
    Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose correctly.
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  8. #8
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    Another try:

    "Free" in this context doesn't mean "free of payment/money/fees" but it means "free of royalties" which means it's free of reoccuring fees.

    Royalty in itself means a fee that you have to pay more than one time and/or that its amount depends on the use of the item.

    Get it now...?
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  9. #9
    Dear beatz, marengo, websterworld,

    Thank you very much for your replies.

    I am sorry that I did not make myself clear. I am *NOW* fully aware of the meaning of the term "Royalty Free," in this industry. This is 100% clear to me now I am NOW aware how people in this industry use the term. I am aware of the use of the term in legal English. I understand it completely! ( I think, see my message to beatz)

    However, as far as I am aware, in common English usage (that is the usage of English of most non-legal, non-industry) English speakers is that royalty refers to fees that one pays for the use of a patent or copyright item.

    "Do I have to pay a royalty to use this item?" seems to me to be a very normal question, and one which if the thing costs money then the answer is YES and if I can use it without it costing money then the answer is NO.

    The fact that "royalty free" is a standard industry term is undisputed. However said web site offers images to the general public.

    As far as I am aware, sellers are required by law to inform would-be-clients that they are about to enter a contractual agreement.

    Is a seller allowed to assume that a general member of the public is aware of terms which perhaps in contradiction to their usage among the general public?

    Is this term used by the general public in the way that I am suggesting?

    Is the industry term now common parlance that a member of the general public might be expected to understand?

    websterworld wrote
    > For example, the way linux is free. Its free as in the
    > source is free, it doesn't mean that its free as in you
    > don't have to pay for it.

    Yes, I am aware that free does not necessary mean no charge. However, the site in question said that the item was "royalty free" and as far as I WAS aware at the time, "royalty" refers to the payment of a user to the holder of a patent or copyright. Hence when I used the item I anticipated that it would be free of such payments to the hold of the copyright.

    > "Free" in this context doesn't mean "free of
    > payment/money/fees" but it means "free of royalties"
    > which means it's free of reoccuring fees.

    The emphasis here is on *reoccuring.* In other words you are suggesting that the meaning of "Royalty" in "Royalty Free" is "a reoccuring fee." Hmm... certainly when one speaks of "royalties" in COMMON (not "industry" or legal) english royalties are often applied to cost which are reoccuring. "he got rich on the royalties of his book."

    However, as far as I was aware
    1) Royalty is commonly used to refer to one time payments as well.
    2) The reason why "Royalty free" means that one has to pay, is because "Royalty" in this term is refering to (in the English that I speak) a rare meaning of the term, not a payment at all. But the right or juristiction upon that thing. Apparently, and I only knew this when I looked it up in the dictionary, Royalty also means to have possession of something. I presume that the Royalty in Royalty free means therefore that the SELLER does not claim possess of the item, and the BUYER can therefore use it as often, an in anyway, that they like. I may be wrong on this point, but it seems to me that you, beatz are not understanding the meaning of royalty.

    Royalty in this term is (as far as I am concerned) a very arcane word for a privelidge, a right, an ownership. By saying Royalty the SELLER is saying that they waive their right to control how one uses the item.

    But I do not mean to be hard on you beatz, I understood the term as a payment like you.

    marengo
    Thank you very much for your web site recommendations. I will use them.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by timtak

    marengo
    Thank you very much for your web site recommendations. I will use them.
    you are welcome. Also try this site ( very-very cheap , 1st photo is free):
    http://www.istockphoto.com/index.php

    Nat
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  11. #11
    Marengo,
    Thanks again for the link. This last one is really great isn't it. They seem to be selling photos at about 50 cents (US) a go, which is about the sort of price that a homepage owner like me would like to pay.
    Timothy
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  12. #12
    timtak they have a TOS that you probably didnt read. just a thought, before downloading/using anything, be it free or paid... read the terms. slowly.

    Best,
    Eugene.
    IWDN - Really smart web developers... and me!
    More than any time in history mankind faces a crossroads.
    One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness, the other to total extinction.
    Let us pray that we have the wisdom to choose correctly.
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  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Location
    Belgium
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    Websterworld:


    You **can** use all photos from http://www.istockphoto.com/ for web, print etc. RF licence.

    (d) Permitted Uses. You may:

    (i) Back up, copy, or archive one copy of the Data File(s) as necessary for internal use, and only as necessary for that use. Any copy or archive you make must include the Data File's copyright information.

    (ii) Use the Data File(s) in any electronic or print media, including advertising and editorial use, and consumer merchandise.

    (iii) Use the Data File(s) for any items for resale, including book covers and consumer merchandise, provided these products are not intended to allow the re-distribution or re-use of the Data File(s).

    (iv) Modify or alter the Data File(s) as necessary for your use, as allowed for elsewhere in these terms and conditions, provided that the rights to any derivative work shall belong to iStockphoto. You may use such derivative work only as permitted in accordance with these terms and conditions. All copyrights with respect to such derivative work are assigned to iStockphoto or its members, which assignment the parties hereby agree is valid under the Canadian (and other International) Copyright Law. If requested by iStockphoto, you agree to execute a written assignment of any such copyrights with respect to such derivative work.

    (v) In the normal course of workflow, convey to a third party (such as a printer) temporary copies of the Data File(s) that are integral to your work product and without which the product could not be completed.
    http://www.istockphoto.com/license.php .
    Nat
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  14. #14
    Join Date
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    Location
    Toulouse, France
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    To answer the original question. Yes, I do use "royalty free" images. I have just bought a DVD disk with 50000 jpegs. It might be handy for various web design works.
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  15. #15
    from one of the royalty free sites

    "The royalty-free images is a concept where user of the images need not pay any royalty fee for repeated use of the images. The buyer does not own the copyright of the images but have bought out the right to use the images legally without further payments or interruption from the seller. These images cannot be resold or transferred but it offers a wide range of benefits; mainly lower pricing, convenience and faster delivery through digital format. "
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  16. #16
    the difference

    "What are the differences between Royalty Free Images and Rights Managed Images?
    Rights Managed offers individual images to be rented through the negotiation of a specific price for a specific use and by offering clients the opportunity for exclusive rights and the ability of restricting similar use of the image by others. Royalty free photography concept is that does not require customers to pay royalties on the photo that they use after initial purchase. This greatly reduces the costs and allows far greater freedom with the images purchased. Of course, supplying all our images on digital format gives our customers the advantage of being able to go straight to the color separator or print rather than having to scan them at an additional cost. Most important, this allows far more flexibility than traditional photo library."
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  17. #17
    here's another
    "Royalty-free images
    Pricing is based solely on the size of output and resolution required, not the specific image use. Once you purchase a royalty-free image, you may use it multiple times for multiple projects though for each project you should check to see whether a Model or Property Release is required for that usage. "
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  18. #18
    oh yeah, found them from here
    www.inmagine.com
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