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  1. #1

    Communism is good - help me prove it!

    This post is not meant to spark a debate or flaming. Rather it is for a school project i am working on.

    I would like to get some points on the positive side of communism.

    If you would be so kind as to provide some strong arguements for communism and explain them, that would be great!

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    This is just what I know from talking to various people, some may be horribly innacurate.

    Communism, in theory, is a perfect government. Everyone is treated fairly, and it's a government where the people do. However, Mao Zedong took this and obfuscated it, turning it into what we see as more of a dictatorship than anything. This is also the ideas expressed by Karl Marx (Marxism) and a more extreme socialism, all things that played part in WW2. As we can see, in writing, they're perfect, but in action, they were devastating. A similar effect can be seen in democracy. America says 'by the people, for the people,' however, these are clearly the same as anarchy. America rather has us vote between two people representing a government we only partially agree with, somewhere in the moderate zone.

    So, in short, communism is based on equality and the power of the people, but on the other hand, is too close to anarchy and revolution to work anywhere past theory.

    I'm probably just babbling, but eh.

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    Communisim only works on paper is the problem.
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    Very simply put, Communism is a perfect social system WRITTEN and on PAPER. However, in reality, it is wrong, and doesn't work at all. That's the core of what I was taught in an interesting University class on Communism and Social Theory.

    Small Disclaimer: I do not support Communism in ANY way.

    Regards,
    Waylon

  5. #5
    Yes i understand, but i need to have at least a strong arguement on my part of the debate. I am not one to support communism, but the i will need to set my opinion aside

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    Originally posted by amusive.com
    Communisim only works on paper is the problem.
    exactly (except the whole not believing in God aspect of it)

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    Originally posted by RenderStream
    Yes i understand, but i need to have at least a strong arguement on my part of the debate. I am not one to support communism, but the i will need to set my opinion aside
    That is a tough ask.

    Communism .. all people are equal except some people are more equal.

    If I were debating the affirmitive I would stress the theoretical side and the plus's there in. I would then highlight how due to human failings and greed things can go wrong, you could point to other system that sound good on paper but have also been currupted by human failings. American Politics would serve as a good example.

    I also recommend reading "Animal farm"

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    DanX has given you a pretty good argument.

    To all those who say that communism only works on paper, how is that different from any other system?

    The communist system breaks down because of greed and abusive of power.

    This is the same with any political entity. In case you haven't noticed, democracy is far from a perfect system.

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    Originally posted by blue27
    DanX has given you a pretty good argument.

    To all those who say that communism only works on paper, how is that different from any other system?

    The communist system breaks down because of greed and abusive of power.

    This is the same with any political entity. In case you haven't noticed, democracy is far from a perfect system.
    Before we could debate democracy one would need to define which countries are actually demoratic.
    Contrary to public opinion the USA ISN"T a democracy it is a "Constitution-based federal republic" Canada is a "Confederation with parliamentary democracy" United Kindom is a "Constitutional Monarchy" Australia is "Democratic, federal-state system recognizing the British monarch as sovereign"

    Source ... CIA world Fact Book.

    So out of four Western Countries only Australia is a Democracy. I think this is why when it comes to politics people get confused because there politians keep saying there a democracy when there not.

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    I use democracy as an example Doc not as a subject for debate. My point is that most systems look good on paper but when real people try to implement them human nature takes over and the systems break down.

    Communism and Socialism, while bad words in the US and Canada are theoretically better systems then what we currently use.

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    I myself, like the socialist ideals used in some other countries, namely Canada.
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    Originally posted by Xshare
    I myself, like the socialist ideals used in some other countries, namely Canada.
    Once again it is a great system if not for the greed and corruption factors.
    Most of our social systems are so poorly regulated that it costs us billions of dollars in fraud.

    I saw a first hand account when I lived in the Cayman Islands. They decided to implement a national health system based on Canada's model and almost immediately the costs of healthcare almost tripled.
    Why. Corrupt doctors and hospitals jacking up prices because they new insurance was covering costs.
    Happens in far too many cases.

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    Originally posted by blue27
    I use democracy as an example Doc not as a subject for debate. My point is that most systems look good on paper but when real people try to implement them human nature takes over and the systems break down.

    Communism and Socialism, while bad words in the US and Canada are theoretically better systems then what we currently use.
    Yes I was aware of that, my point is that there os so much confusion and the word "democracy" gets used and misused so much that the average person (including me) gets confused. If Renderstream is going to use any other political examples when debating communism he/she need to be aware of this.

    Doc.

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    I agree with the "Animal Farm" recommendation Doc.
    Whether you are going to be in a debate or not it is a good read by a very perceptive author. (George Orwell also wrote "1984 for those of you who haven't heard of him)

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    Ok here is my go. Communism is the next logical step is the evolution of society. When I say next i assume that it is preceded by soicialism (Sweeden is the country that is closest to it). Central point of communism is a person, or better, free person. "Free" is very important term here. Communism teaches us that one can be inslaved in many different ways. A path to communism is the path one takes while freeing oneself.

    One inportant step is freeing oneself from religion. Religion in communisam is described as mechanism used to control people. "Be happy with what you have", "Turn another cheek", "Poor await great blessings in an afterlife" and so on, are just frazes that when repeated enough cause induvidual to stop seeking the change and accept the society of ritch and poor. There is no ritch and poor in communist society, and free person needs no god. Free person is fully responsible for his/her actions and situation. There is no one else that they need to give thier prayers and thanks.

    Another important step is fight for equality. Everyone contributes to the society, and everyone takes back as much as he/she needs. All people are equal, and they will all contribute to the society to the extent of their skills. As education and opportunities are provided to everyone and everyone will have something that they can give back. Males and females are equal so there is no reason that one of them should have more opportunities then another. That is why there is no need for family in which traditionaly woman takes inferior position. Males and females live separatly and children are raised by the most competent induviduals. Again, this gives every child the best care, love and ability to fully develop their potential. It is like growing up with tens of moms and dads who all unconditionaly love you, and whose only purpose is to provide for you. Society provides for them and circle closes.

    Goverment and politics as we know it are not needed in communist society. People are capable of self governing. With all pety things left behind, communist society helps every single induvidual (no falling through the cracks here) to be the best person he/she can be. There is no crime as there is simply no benefit one could have from those acts. If you need something you simply take it.

    The best arguments for communism are
    freedom, equality, opportunitis for everyone, and shared welth.

    I am sorry for any typos and gramatical errors up there. It is getting late here and i do not feel like reading through it.

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    Communism worked like a charm in Soviet Union for 70 years. Low crime, police and army are strong, people are friendly, Soviet bread was the best, everyone gets the same salary, plenty of associations and committees within communities, plenty of hobby centers, education is free, sports activities are free, etc.
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    Originally posted by Artashes
    Communism worked like a charm in Soviet Union for 70 years. Low crime, police and army are strong, people are friendly, Soviet bread was the best, everyone gets the same salary, plenty of associations and committees within communities, plenty of hobby centers, education is free, sports activities are free, etc.
    What happen to it then.
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    Originally posted by TheDoctor
    What happen to it then.
    Well, I didn't name all the negative things. Just focusing on positives to help out with the project.
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    everyone gets the same salary,
    Umm excuse me?



    That is one of the worst misconceptions of the Russian system to date..Think of it this way: all doctors more or less received the same pay, all garbage men received the same pay.

    Garbage men did not make the same as doctors.

    The system screwed itself up when people starting paying doctors/and other professionals "tips" or incentives using foreign currency.

    Ahem
    Last edited by Emil; 03-10-2004 at 01:35 AM.

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    Communism could make a wonderful system but unfortunately "people" are the reason the system fails. If people weren't greedy, dishonest, and lazy, communism would be an ideal form of government.

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    Originally posted by Emil
    Umm excuse me?



    That is one of the worst misconceptions of the Russian system to date..Think of it this way: all doctors more or less received the same pay, all garbage men received the same pay.

    Garbage men did not make the same as doctors.

    The system screwed itself up when people starting paying doctors/and other professionals "tips" or incentives using foreign currency.

    Ahem
    OK, OK, what I meant to say is that specialists in every field were getting almost the same salary and there was also a salary limit. For example, no one, no professional would get more than an X amount of rubles. Of course, different industries' professionals were getting slightly different amounts, but there was one common limit, say 150-160 rubles per month. Engineers were getting about 50-60 rubles, Doctors, Scientists and Professors 80-120, High level diplomats close to the limit.

    How would I know? I grew up there.

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    I have a Russian friend who would greatly disagree with you Artashes.

    Although that's not to say things are better without communism.
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    I respect everyone's opinion, including your Russian friend's one who obviously has some more information/theory about this. So be it, I say.
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    How would I know? I grew up there.
    I didn't exactly grow up in Russia, but traveled there and lived in Romania, which was a soviet satellite, so mostly all of the Soviet ideology was applied until Ceausescu came to power.


    My dad did travel though, and speaks Russian fluently but has never wanted to teach me I've always wanted to learn it.

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    Originally posted by Artashes
    I respect everyone's opinion, including your Russian friend's one who obviously has some more information/theory about this. So be it, I say.
    Oh I agree, I just find it odd you both having lived there have completely different views. I guess it worked for some but not all
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    *look up: Stalin's modernisation in a single generation

    *Russia was the second world until 1989, then it kept on dropping back and back, now it's basically back on third world level

    *look at Russia, former Yugoslavia, Bulgaria etc up until the late eighties - early nineties. Compare the development and living standards with countries that had the same standards of living in the early 20th century and that underwent (forced) neo-liberal/capitalist reforms like Guatemala, Brazil etc

    *compare developped and living standards of the general population in Cuba with the rest of the 3rd world.(+ take note of the embargo put on cuba and the terrorist actions against cuba)
    Last edited by Eric Cartman; 03-10-2004 at 06:18 AM.

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    Communism is Good : To prove that you need to look at certain case studies ..

    1) Ablishment of feudal society, establishment of a fixed worker class, ownership debates, and mainly agro based benefits.

    Capitalism and/or Industrial Revolution never helped the majority of people in either Russia and China which were for last thousand of year heavily fuedual and the masses lived in subjugation.

    If you were a landless peasant working for your master ( a feudal lord of the TSar or Federal King in China) then COmmunism was your liberator ... from this bondage .

    By cutting down religion, organized religion and aristocracy, it created a classless society ..

    I recommed you to watch 2 propaganda films on Communism and all your questions will be answered

    Both are early films by Serge Eisientien ..one of the best directors of the silent era films...masters of Russian Montage techniques.

    Watch : Battleship Potemkin & Strike.

    These will highlight why was communism good and what is it being compared against and who all benefited from it..


    Also, Compare the scene of the Odessa masscare on the steps in Battleship Potemkin to the scene in De Palma's "The Untouchables" .. its amazing instigative communist propaganda but once you see that, you will know what benefits it had.
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  29. #29
    wohoo thanks all! Ive written my points.

    You guys are great help, much thanks !

  30. #30
    I guess the positive side is

    communism is basically an "ideal" government. But we all know this world isn't going to be a utopia and there are always people who will abuse their powers. Therefore, communism works fine on paper. Put it to action, it'll not be close to how the paper describes it. Totalitarian government. Dictator. :/

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    Communism will be gone soon

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    Communism cannot work with other governments in this global world. There are to much trade issues, lack of specific resources, etc.

    Plus, there would have to be a huge change in human tendancies to counter our drive for 'more'.

    I believe a more socialistic society will be the next phase for many governments. I think many countries around the world are playing catchup. Also, many of the more economically driven societies (ie. USA) are watching and studies the socialist nations of europe.

    If we can combine commerce, power, and social benefits well be doing pretty good in our lifetime.

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    Very nicely put DOC...

    Originally posted by TheDoctor
    Before we could debate democracy one would need to define which countries...


    ....Source ... CIA world Fact Book.

    So out of four Western Countries only Australia is a Democracy. I
    Doc

    Now political science is a science regardless of the unknown variables and emotions involved. While it is not as specific as say, biology or chem, it's a science that can be studied, theories can be tested, characteristics can be defined.


    Based on that premise, you can lean on the scientific process of forming a hypothesis as follows:

    THEORY: Communism is a better form of government, as measured by the life expectancy of the average citizen.

    We frequently use life expectancy as an easy measure of the standard of living citizens in a country are presently enjoying under it's form of government and ability to translate resources into a long, healthy, happy life.


    You can follow this formation of a THEORY with designing an EXPERIMENT and then ANALYZING results. This has been done repeatedly with various forms of government, from Communism, where the rulers only vote among themselves and hold power based on being in the 'club' or party, to Socialism (sort of a democratic government with heavy taxation designed to provide health care and rent and jobs and quality food and durable goods to the general public) to a Capitalistic society (often democratic, but more importantly, it's frenzied feed-feast of merchants and large corporations where the best managed firms survive, and the losers go BK and the workers are fodder for the machinery...this is the way I would describe the U.S. political system), and then the 'theoretically perfectly formed democracy' where each person's vote is LEGALLY REQUIRED (you get arrested for failing to vote) and COUNTS, rather than the electorate method used in the U.S. where individual votes are passed through the 'filter' of electorates.


    Using this basic list of forms of governments (and variations thereof), you can view average life expectancies of various countries and political systems and make a logical conclusion on the 'best' form of government mankind has developed thus far.


    I would suggest that communism hasn't worked out too well although in Russia, with prices skyrocketing and people freezing to death, it won't be long before their failure at obtaining some form of a capitalistic/democratic society may be almost as great as their failure to provide a good standard of living under communist rule.

    HOWEVER, if Russia were to practice a capitalistic/democratic form of government for at least 50 years (less than the duration of communism), I would THEORIZE that Russians would live longer than they did under a communist system. This would mean that overall, the average russian is better off in a democratic society, even taking into account medical advances and food and housing technologies that also add to a longer life.

    But for the average russian, right now communism is looking like a long lost loved relative since the new capitalistic system is doing the same thing as it does in America: corps get rich, people are expendable grease for the machine.


    To me, the ideal government would heavily tax large corporations to provide housing, daycare, healthcare and education to the lower income bracket population while keeping taxes very very low or almost non-existent for all but the upper middle class and rich. This would promote education, bring up the average IQ of the entire population and that helps make a country competitive on the global engineering scene....

    ...now a big plus under communism (besides government provided healthcare which is often substandard), was free education. However again the corruption factors played out and I know some Russians who's scores were 'good enough' to get into Soviet Universities but they didn't know 'the right people' and were not admitted.


    In a 'free' society where the JUDICIAL body enacts laws to protect human rights and colleges are open to all comers, there are no (few anyway) limitations based on personal bias for admission to college, although the monetary factors quickly begin to limit entrance. Same for rent, quality of food and health care.

    Which system is better?

    Plato said 'The ideal government would be a benevolent dictator.' Such a person can act for the best interest of the people without any hinderance by a legislative body, elections etc. But since tht person is HUMAN, mentally frail, bound to make mistakes, a committee is required to prevent gross mishaps or abuse of power and so the multiple branches of government are born and with that, all kinds of corruption begin to play out.


    So, my theory is that it is doubtful that we will ever have a 'perfect' government no matter how you define it, label it or administer it. What we CAN have is a smooth evolutionary process and that requires information and input from as many sources as possible since two heads are better than one (more brain storming) and two thousand are better than two (elections).


    This leaves little room for a political methodology that evolves slowly or has few checks and balances to prevent gross mistakes that can kill thousands or leave millions without basic services. The political body in Russia had better quickly learn to lean on elections and learn to evolve quickly or their people will suffer greatly over the next 5-10 years...if their caplitalistic/democratic fledgling experiment lasts that long.

    I am betting that it does. I think Russians are tough, pretty darn smart and have proven themselves willing to experiment with many things. The question becomes, will they have the patience to continue with their present democratic experiment until their political body evolves into a semi-functional set of leaders that can actually improve the lot of the average citizen.

    As for pros and cons for a communistic regime, the most obvious (to me) besides some 'socilistic' practices, are that state resources can be poured into technological development, unhindered by elections or rapid changes of personnel in office (such changes interrupt programs in the works) and as such, while communism was a failure at the citizen level, it didn't do too badly at the tech dev level. Unfortunately, again, the average citizen didn't realize much from those developments.
    Last edited by kckclass; 03-10-2004 at 11:47 PM.
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    Something else to consider is that capitalism has had literally thousands of years to prove itself, whereas communism (at least in the sense that its generally recognised today has had far far less time).

    Another factor that needs to be considered when evaluating the effectiveness of comunism, is the resistance and interference it has had from capitalist countries, in particular the restriction of the growth and spread of comunism, due in part to blockades and even revolutions funded and supported by capitalist countries when the rise of comunism (even through democratic processes) was beginning to emerge.

    As for the idea that socialism is the way forward I'm not so sure myself. Here's some definitions I personally found quite amuzing:

    DEFINITIONS AND DISTINCTIONS

    FREE MARKET: That condition of society in which all economic transactions result from voluntary choice without coercion.

    THE STATE: That institution which interferes with the Free Market through the direct exercise of coercion or the granting of privileges (backed by coercion).

    TAX: That form of coercion or interference with the Free Market in which the State collects tribute (the tax), allowing it to hire armed forces to practice coercion in defense of privilege, and also to engage in such wars, adventures, experiments, "reforms," etc.,as it pleases, not at its own cost, but at the cost of "its" subjects.

    PRIVILEGE: From the Latin privi, private, and lege, law. An advantage granted by the State and protected by its powers of coercion. A law for private benefit.

    USURY: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which one Statesupported group monopolizes the coinage and thereby takes tribute (interest), direct or
    indirect, on all or most economic transactions.

    LANDLORDISM: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which one State-supported group "owns" the land and thereby takes tribute (rent) from those who live, work, or produce on the land.

    TARIFF: That form of privilege or interference with the Free Market in which commodities produced outside the State are not allowed to compete equally with those produced inside the State.

    CAPITALISM: That organization of society, incorporating elements of tax, usury,landlordism, and tariff, which thus denies the Free Market while pretending to exemplify it.

    CONSERVATISM: That school of capitalist philosophy which claims allegiance to the Free Market while actually supporting usury, landlordism, tariff, and sometimes taxation.

    LIBERALISM: That school of capitalist philosophy which attempts to correct the injustices of capitalism by adding new laws to the existing laws. Each time conservatives pass a law creating privilege, liberals pass another law modifying privilege, leading conservatives to pass a more subtle law recreating privilege, etc., until "everything not forbidden is compulsory" and "everything not compulsory is forbidden."

    SOCIALISM: The attempted abolition of all privilege by restoring power entirely to the coercive agent behind privilege, the State, thereby converting capitalist oligarchy into Statist monopoly. Whitewashing a wall by painting it black.

    ANARCHISM: That organization of society in which the Free Market operates freely, without taxes, usury, landlordism, tariffs, or other forms of coercion or privilege.

    RIGHT ANARCHISTS predict that in the Free Market people would voluntarily choose to compete more often than to cooperate. LEFT ANARCHISTS predict that in the Free Market people would voluntarily choose to cooperate more often than to compete.

    A few of the posts here that claim that socialism is the way forward and are claiming the benefits of socialism on paper, don't seem to me to actually be talking about socialism, but about anarchy.
    Last edited by EthicalEpi; 03-11-2004 at 12:51 AM.

  35. #35
    Greetings:

    I might be confusing communism with socialism; and if, so, please correct me and forgive me.

    If everyone contributed with their best effort, then such a system might be admirable.

    However, one of the reasons I like our current system is there are people who want everything for nothing; and people willing to give everything they have to achieve various goals.

    It is like school projects where you are on a team. One or two people on the team are the real producers, and the rest steal from the team by doing zero. They take credit for being lazy slouches.

    I like systems which reward those people who are willing to put in the effort to make a difference.
    Greetings:

    I might be confusing communism with socialism; and if, so, please correct me and forgive me.

    If everyone contributed with their best effort, then such a system might be admirable.

    However, one of the reasons I like our current system is there are people who want everything for nothing; and people willing to give everything they have to achieve various goals.

    It is like school projects where you are on a team. One or two people on the team are the real producers, and the rest steal from the team by doing zero. They take credit for being lazy slouches.

    I like systems which reward those people who are willing to put in the effort to make a difference.

    Thank you.

    Thank you.

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    that said (twice), when working with teams (I used to hire 40 people a week and wait 3 weeks for the best 5 to stick it out), I have found that using a very capitalistic reward system, you can make all workers run like rats for cheese in a maze, by hanging out 'bonuses'; not a new concept. and what you find are the eager beavers run faster, smarter and get the job done and the slow folks run faster than they ever had before, drink more when they get home (out of frustration for an inability to keep up with the sharp ones) and under such stress, often quit shortly after being hired. then the middle folks who try hard and are half-smart and studious often produce a few 'unknown' hitters or success stories. these folks, like the few hitters at the top make the core team leaders for the following month and the cycle is repeated. you'd think you would end up with too many chiefs after a few months but the really good ones eventually go start their own businesses or are actively seeking a better paying job and they eventually quit too while the firm benefits greatly during the process and lazy or incompetent folks quit early, costing the firm little. i was taught this system (and a ton of details for setting it up and managing it) at a young age by a man who got his thesis in psychological warefare. i felt very lucky to have worked with him for 2 years while i was in college. he applied all he knew to sales and marketing and i have found it to be very effective.

    now this applies to a capitalistic society as well and could be applied to a communistic society too and when you have a frenzied group of people who put out more than they ever have in their life, whether you use the reward model of a capitalistic society and the benefits of stock valuation for a successful corp or use a reward model based on a communistic society, where many individuals who show merit are rewarded with increased pensions or promoted to leadership positions of higher salary, the results are the same: average citizens divide into the 'can dos' and 'can quit' groups and sift themselves into positions of blue, white and 'green' (well paid corporate exec) collar worker.

    the benefits of a communist based system might actually work if the folks at the bottom of a pile were actually paid enough to live despite the fact that they were under-educated or unable to compete for the higher paying jobs, but since most of the riches in the Soviet experiment went to the few rulers at the top, the folks at the bottom never enjoyed the fruits of that system. too bad. had they taken better care of the people and set up an effective reward model for the real hitters, perhaps that experiment might have panned out but such distribution of wealth to the lower end workers never pans out since the admins are always bunch of greedy, crooked fks and it's not much better in a capitalistic world either...

    ...consider that during the prewar Iraq phase I worked at a shipyard where some of the best known republicans run the board of directors, the materials were all substandard, as were the welding practices and I saw dozens of military and cruise ships (poor unknowing customers) leave that had major flaws in structural welds to the hulls and not just in SOME cases, but every single weld made on those ships did not comply to ASTM standards and were dangerous. the folks who profited by the failure to follow standards? the rich stockholding republican board. the folks who suffer when a vessel sinks? both the passengers and the stockholders in those cruise ship firms, as well as the workers at that shipyard who were needlessly exposed to hazards because the firm was too lazy and afraid to slow production (massive losses) to stop work long enough to actually fix health hazards as they were discovered.

    so a capitalistic society is great if you are a hitter since you stand a chance of becoming a multi-millionaire and a free market allows you to find the job that really rewards you for the skills you have demonstrated, but as for the folks at the lower end of the labor scale AND THE CONSUMER who is often led down the road of some unknown slaughter (or drowning) as the 'green collar' folks make their millions, as I said before, they are just the expendable grease in the wheels of progress.
    Last edited by kckclass; 03-11-2004 at 01:16 PM.
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  37. #37
    Here is a joke that could summarize this a bit.

    --------------------

    A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many others her age she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat and was for distribution of all wealth. She felt deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican which she expressed openly.

    One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to higher taxes on the rich & more welfare programs. In the middle of her heartfelt diatribe based upon the lectures she had from her far-left professors at her school, he stopped her and asked her point blank, how she was doing in school.

    She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that it was tough to maintain. That she had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of spending all her time studying. That she was taking a more difficult curriculum.
    Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Mary."

    She replied, "Mary is barely getting by", she continued, "all she has is barely a 2.0 GPA" adding, "and all she takes are easy classes and she never studies." But to explain further she continued emotionally, "But Mary is so very popular on campus, college for her is a blast, she goes to all the parties all the time and very often doesn't even show up for classes because she is too hung over."

    Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0." He continued, "That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and certainly that would be a fair equal distribution of GPA."

    The daughter, visibly shocked by the father's suggestion, angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair! I worked really hard for mine, I did without and Mary has done little or nothing, she played while I worked real hard!"

    The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."
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  38. #38
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    and the father, an obvious Republican who probably also did poorly in college, failed as a mentor, while the wise, thoughtful Democratic Uncle came to her and said;

    'You say Mary is your friend? Prove it! Why don't you take a few hours out of each week and help her so her grades improve and I bet her drinking subsides as she gains self-esteem. If that happens (reward model) I will fund you both to start a venture and with your brains and her charm, you two could make a million before you graduate, pay me back (with interest of course) and go on to run a large corporation, employ other classmates and enjoy a rich productive life together, as a team, and both of you would benefit far more than if you work seperately and you, caring Niece, will have learned the value of such left-wing philosophies such as educating the poor, helping those who have addictions to heal and extending a hand to those you would call your friend.'
    Last edited by kckclass; 03-11-2004 at 01:39 PM.
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  39. #39
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    lol ljprevo

    Someone earlier mentioned Cuba's standard of living against the rest of the 3rd world, well, there's not much difference, unless you think North Korea is really a "worker's paradise", especially given Cuba's promiximity to trade partners. Estonia has a standard of living 5 times greater barely a decade out of communism. I'm sure that's why they're always hopping onto rafts and rickity boats, to come to America to experience it's repressive capitalism, lol.

    Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, ahh, the good old days.

    Communist regimes were responsible for 100 million murders in the 20th century.

    Here's a good book for you to get some info
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

    Communism is self defeating anways, even if it were applied as theororized, there's no incentive->no merit->no advancement->stagnation->deterioration->self-destruction.

    The proof is already there. It's called history.

  40. #40
    Join Date
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    1,815
    Originally posted by kckclass
    and the father, an obvious Republican who probably also did poorly in college, failed as a mentor, while the wise, thoughtful Democratic Uncle came to her and said;

    'You say Mary is your friend? Prove it! Why don't you take a few hours out of each week and help her so her grades improve and I bet her drinking subsides as she gains self-esteem. If that happens (reward model) I will fund you both to start a venture and with your brains and her charm, you two could make a million before you graduate, pay me back (with interest of course) and go on to run a large corporation, employ other classmates and enjoy a rich productive life together, as a team, and both of you would benefit far more than if you work seperately and you, caring Niece, will have learned the value of such left-wing philosophies such as educating the poor, helping those who have addictions to heal and extending a hand to those you would call your friend.'
    Is that what the government does? Hmmm, maybe you should tell them.

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