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  1. #1

    Dathorn's Andrew and his attitude

    Well I would like to ask Dathorn this question, that they need a reason or justification to request additional ip addresses. I emailed dathorn for an ip address for a client of mine. My client needs her own ip address as she wants to print that ip address on some tshirts she is going to use for advertising purposes, and as well as contact her cell phone company to somehow get the same cell number (if possible).
    And I am ready to pay for any charges for the ip address, but Andrew is still asking me justifications. I mean, what else do you want man! Can you give me another example of justification. Dathorn is not what it used to be. I used to recommend people to dathorn, I guess Andrew misses his early morning coffee nowadays.

  2. #2
    ARIN guidelines state that you have to justify what the IP is needed for, so telling them you need it for SSL, or for a script which requires a dedicated IP should be enough for him I imagine.
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  3. #3
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    According to ARIN guidelines, you need to justify what you need IP for and valid reasons are for SSL, nameserver etc...promotion is not considered as valid reason by most of the hosts over here so I don't think Dathorn is doing anything wrong.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Dathorn's Andrew and his attitude

    Usual Ip justifications:

    Approval:
    SSL
    Anonymous FTP
    Virtual FTP server
    Nameservers

    Disapproval:
    Because i want it
    No reason given

    --

    To be honest, you have to cut them some slack on this issue. They cannot expect the DC to keep allocating IP's to their boxes, if they are just handing out IP addresses to anyone and everyone, for any reason.

    Dedicated IP addresses are only needed for the above stated reasons, and you're going to have a hard time finding a host that simply gives you a dedicated IP for the reason you gave in your post (t-shirt thing).

    Simon

  5. #5
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    Which ARIN guideline is that? Can you point me to the guideline?
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  6. #6
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  7. #7
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    Do you see anything about SSL, Anonymous FTP, etc as justifications for requesting dedicated IP on that page?
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  8. #8
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    Originally posted by FHDave
    Do you see anything about SSL, Anonymous FTP, etc as justifications for requesting dedicated IP on that page?
    I said usual justification, not ARIN guidelines.

    I never mentioned ARIN, I mentioned the DC.

    However, wasteful use of IP's isn't going to land you in good stead, whether directly, or indirectly with ARIN.

    IP abuse would be rife if dedicated IP's were given at random.

    Simon

  9. #9
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    I understand. So this is not ARIN guidelines/policies, but rather privately-held guidelines/policies?

    I see many people/hosts mentioning that IP can only be allocated per ARIN guidelines and dedicated IP can only be assigned for such and such reasons ... But I have not been able to locate on which specific ARIN guidelines are these IP-usage justifications outlined.
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  10. #10
    It's this part 'technical justification for this practice' under the 'Web Hosting Policy'
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  11. #11
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    ARIN does not specify which technical justification that would be, does it? When I requested my /22 block, Internap did not ask for such justification. The tecnical justification provided was rather how these IPs would be allocated (VLAN-wise, allocation time-frame, etc).

    I still believe the technical justifications that we provide (which is valid reasons, btw) are not ARIN's but rather it's a privately-held justifications that web hosts use to limit the use of its IP addresses space.

    All hosts should have the right to limits its use of IP addresses, with or without ARIN guidelines. But when somebody refers to ARIN guidelines for such and such justifications, I have always had a hard time finding what ARIN has explicitly specified on this.

    I may just need to look around on ARIN website harder
    Last edited by FHDave; 03-09-2004 at 06:41 AM.
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  12. #12
    You are right ARIn doesn't specify the actual technical reasons, I think they did this because they wanted to give some lifespan to the policy, I think they were worried about making it too rigid then new technology coming out that outdates the guidelines.

    When you submit a justification report to ARIN, which isn't needed at application but is something they ask for at regular intervals you need to put the justification which just has to be a technical reason.

    To get more blocks from ARIN you just have to show utilization and it's only when they audit you that you need to justify usage.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Dathorn's Andrew and his attitude

    Originally posted by azfar800
    Well I would like to ask Dathorn this question, that they need a reason or justification to request additional ip addresses. I emailed dathorn for an ip address for a client of mine. My client needs her own ip address as she wants to print that ip address on some tshirts she is going to use for advertising purposes, and as well as contact her cell phone company to somehow get the same cell number (if possible).
    And I am ready to pay for any charges for the ip address, but Andrew is still asking me justifications. I mean, what else do you want man! Can you give me another example of justification. Dathorn is not what it used to be. I used to recommend people to dathorn, I guess Andrew misses his early morning coffee nowadays.
    Don't think Dathorn did anything wrong at all.

    That reason your client had was not justifiable, so Dathorn doesn't give you that extra ip.

    On the other hand, tell you client to use her domain name for advertisement/marketing instead of an ip address.
    They created domian names to map ip address is so people can recognize it better than some random numbers.
    Your client is thinking backward by trying to be too creative there.

  14. #14
    Well thanks a lot for the advices. Appreciate it. I will aks dathorn for an ip address, and infact my client will really be needing her own SSL as she will be selling Fitness products, and she asked me to get a SSL cert. from Verisign. Perfecto!

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by azfar800
    Well thanks a lot for the advices. Appreciate it. I will aks dathorn for an ip address, and infact my client will really be needing her own SSL as she will be selling Fitness products, and she asked me to get a SSL cert. from Verisign. Perfecto!
    Well, Dathorn should give you the ip if your customer need that for SSL cert.

  16. #16
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    Btw, advertising your IP is a bad idea anyways as it can be changed due to many reasons ( server move etc )...domain is a much much safer bet IMHO. ( Unless of course if you forget to register it and then don't even renew it during the redemption period )
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  17. #17
    Dedicated IP addresses are only needed for the above stated reasons, and you're going to have a hard time finding a host that simply gives you a dedicated IP for the reason you gave in your post (t-shirt thing).
    nope thats not quite all the truth
    there are many many host that will sell you an Ip address if you host with them.If you want 100's that maybe a problem but one Ip address?

  18. #18

    Post

    Bet the regulars at WHT will be just as happy as Dathorn users when Andrew gets his forum back up.

    I've been with Dathorn for awhile and from experience I know Andrew doesn't suffer fools gracefully. But he has been trying much harder to simply tolerate me .... um I mean them!

    azfar800 domain names are great for advertising, good luck with your customer.

  19. #19
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    I agree with Buddha, if this was 5 months ago I wouls say Andrew had a terrible attitude with newbies and support tickets alot.

    HOWEVER, I do give congrats to Andrew as I have seen firsthand he is trying much harder and is more friendly with questions now.

    I experinced several times issues that were his fault (server move months back that files were missing on the new server that Andrew claimed was my fault somehow along with other issues) that he seemed unmovable to resolve and left to me to take care of myself along with very short and rudish comments. If you dont follow their forum everyday you will be left behind on server moves or anything else major.

    But now as of a few months ago, I have seen emails now coming to me about issues and any support tickets sent in and forum post have been answered in a different light. More help and better notification along with better attitude.

    I still rate dathorn not for beginners, I would say dathorn is best for those experinced and coming off their first provider and looking for cheaper plans to save them more money and wanting a great uptime record. Also those looking not to get into overselling as well should go to dathorn.

    However, if you want overselling and a few more featured like phosuexec off.. or if you want handholding, go somewhere like idologic or bluewho

    I only stay there now because of a few sites, but Dathorn for sure has their stuff together!

  20. #20
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    Having been with Dathorn for a while and following their forums and these, I can certainly see why Andrew would lose it by times.

    The IP address is easy and should not present a problem, I would say the starter of the topic is a newbie and should read more from great sources like these forums and even Dathorn's forums, it usually contains the answers without starting a post that does not offer a lot ...... except maybe make that person feel better as they had their little rant.

    From my experience with Dathorn and several other hosts I feel sorry for them dealing with some of the "Reseller Wannabe's "



    Cheers,

  21. #21
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    funny , every host gets the same customers and questions as andrew so what gives him the right to "lose it" as you put it and no one esle?

  22. #22
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    I asked andrew the same questions before as all my host past and present, and truthfully he is the only one that was ever negative or appeared to be too busy to help.

    how does everyone else manage?

    Its a matter about caring about your customers or not, and what effort you put into it, and dathorn forums are not all that more helpfuls than anyone elses.

  23. #23
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    But as I said, he is doing better, I would still consider them for hosting as I see alot of improvement, something alot of host dont do

  24. #24
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  25. #25
    Originally posted by crnc
    this thread is rediculous. just use a domain name like the rest of us.
    To each his own. Everyone has their own marketing ideas, I see no reason why his client cannot print an IP on a t-shirt.
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  26. #26
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    Originally posted by eliquid
    I asked andrew the same questions before as all my host past and present, and truthfully he is the only one that was ever negative or appeared to be too busy to help.

    how does everyone else manage?

    Its a matter about caring about your customers or not, and what effort you put into it, and dathorn forums are not all that more helpfuls than anyone elses.
    Hmm,

    I've been with Dathorn for a full year now, and I've only had one instance when Andrew seemed rude to me. But that was my own ignorance for not reading what he told me correctly.

    His answers are short, and to the point. I ask the question, he answers me, end of story. Do I need to find out how his day is going, or what the weather is? Nahh, I'll just stick to the question, and fix whatever the prob is. If I want someone to chat to, I'll call a friend.
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  27. #27
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    Originally posted by net-trend
    To each his own. Everyone has their own marketing ideas, I see no reason why his client cannot print an IP on a t-shirt.
    Ask your datacenter if that is a "justification".

    Tracy Phillips

  28. #28
    Originally posted by azfar800
    Well thanks a lot for the advices. Appreciate it. I will aks dathorn for an ip address, and infact my client will really be needing her own SSL as she will be selling Fitness products, and she asked me to get a SSL cert. from Verisign. Perfecto!
    Originally posted by Weberz
    Ask your datacenter if that is a "justification".
    That should be enough for justification sake.
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  29. #29
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    Originally posted by Weberz
    Ask your datacenter if that is a "justification".

    LOL

    I'd like to know the day when everyone starts advertising by IP, rather than by domain name.


    I can see it now "http://xxx.xxx.xxx.xx is the place to be!!!"

    hehe....

    maybe if u were able to get the same ### for each subnet, just maybe...but if you ever move your domain...
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  30. #30
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    Originally posted by net-trend
    That should be enough for justification sake.
    LOL. Go ahead ask them, I really want to see their answer :-). I think you are mistaking the word "justification" and "reason". Just because someone gives you a "reason" does not mean that it is a "justifiable" reason.

    Tracy Phillips

  31. #31
    Originally posted by Weberz
    LOL. Go ahead ask them, I really want to see their answer :-). I think you are mistaking the word "justification" and "reason". Just because someone gives you a "reason" does not mean that it is a "justifiable" reason.
    So you are saying a dedicated IP is not required for a SSL cert?!
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  32. #32
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    Installing an SSL certificate is perfectly acceptable justification.
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  33. #33
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    Originally posted by net-trend
    So you are saying a dedicated IP is not required for a SSL cert?!
    No, I am saying that putting the IP on a t-shirt is not justification.

    Tracy Phillips

  34. #34
    Originally posted by Weberz
    No, I am saying that putting the IP on a t-shirt is not justification.
    If the client can get the IP for the SSL cert. The client already has said IP, what further justification is needed?
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  35. #35
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    SSL is justification in my opinion. Purely wanting an IP based on the "want" of putting it on a t-shirt is not. If you already have it for SSL though, nothing is to stop you from putting it on a t-shirt.

    Tracy Phillips

  36. #36
    That's exactly what my point is.
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  37. #37
    hmmm guess NAC is fudgin' on ARIN rules then (as when i need Ips I get Ips....)

  38. #38
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    Originally posted by grace5
    nope thats not quite all the truth
    there are many many host that will sell you an Ip address if you host with them.If you want 100's that maybe a problem but one Ip address?
    One IP address to you, is a possible 1000 to the company. Remember, you're not the only client, and if you were to make it public that they are slacking on their guidelines, then I'd simply say good luck to them, they are going to need it.

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  39. #39
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    Originally posted by grace5
    hmmm guess NAC is fudgin' on ARIN rules then (as when i need Ips I get Ips....)
    They might stop if you go around telling everybody.

  40. #40
    point of this is if you need and Ip and your provider will NOT provider one get a new host as theres lots that will
    (it really is very simple)

    strain at a gnat and swallow a camel...

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