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  1. #1
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    Arrow Important: How much would you pay for a Sun E250?

    I regulurly attend a local auction where I live Melbourne, VIC, Australia, and there is going to be a Sun E250 server there, second hand of course.

    Now it is only a dual 400 MHz server, but I have done research on it and it appears to have over 200 gig hard drive space. It will not be used for hosting, just something to muck around with. I have a link that has some information about it:

    http://www.anysystem.com/e-250-special-3.html

    How much would you pay for something like this second hand? The funny thing about it is that it appears to be a really good server, with lots of hard drive space / ram....the downside is that it is only dual 400 MHz. Thanks!

  2. #2
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    is that 2K the price it's going for at the auction or is that an independent retailer's site you have posted the URL to?
    Looks dirt cheap!
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  3. #3
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    Originally posted by wb-Edgar
    is that 2K the price it's going for at the auction or is that an independent retailer's site you have posted the URL to?
    Looks dirt cheap!
    Thats an independent retailer's site. It will go much cheaper at my local auction, I am expecting to pick it up for a few hundred dollars whether it has the same RAM / hard drive space I will only find out in a few days time.

    For a few hundred dollars is it worth it?

  4. #4
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    In my personal opinon, it is. Remember Sun claims that the actual speed of processing applications has little to do with the actual clock speed. What they are trying to say I guess, is that their 400 MHz chip performs at the same speed as a (say) 800 MHz Intel chip. But a few hundred dollars? where can you go wrong? I mean just the 4 SCSI hard drives are worth that much for pete's sake!
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  5. #5
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    Originally posted by wb-Edgar
    In my personal opinon, it is. Remember Sun claims that the actual speed of processing applications has little to do with the actual clock speed. What they are trying to say I guess, is that their 400 MHz chip performs at the same speed as a (say) 800 MHz Intel chip. But a few hundred dollars? where can you go wrong? I mean just the 4 SCSI hard drives are worth that much for pete's sake!
    How do you think something like this would compete with an average P4 desktop? Remembering that this sun has dual 400 MHz and SCSI hardisks and lots of RAM?

  6. #6
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    Probably a 1.3 G celeron with 7200 rpm IDE hard drive...
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  7. #7
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    Originally posted by wb-Edgar
    Probably a 1.3 G celeron with 7200 rpm IDE hard drive...
    Why is it, wb-Edgar, that your status is always 'offline' and yet you always respond to my posts within record time? Do you close WHT after each post and then re-open it 10 seconds later? What's your secret ?

    Also, who agrees / disagrees with wb-Edgars post that it is probably the equivalent of a 1.3 GHz celeron?

  8. #8
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    Ah, the browser is closed about 3 seconds after posting
    Good luck with your purchase.
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  9. #9
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    ok this may sound like a silly question, but I have never thought about this, can you run Windows / Linux on a Sun server, or can you only run Solaris on them? Thanks!

  10. #10
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    I believe you can only run Sun software on a Sun machine. But I've been wrong before
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  11. #11
    Well, you see it depends , not all Sun systems support LINUX, and most probably NONE support windows. You should check that out in sun.com , ull find out that All of their servers run on Solaris, and some on LINUX....

    BTW, what do you mean by saying youre getting this server for a couple of hundred bucks<<< 1 SCSI drive costs a hell more than a hundred bucks..... And isnt this 400MHZ a 64-bit processor?

  12. #12
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    nothing

    I would not pay anything for it because you can put that money into an amd or intel machine and run circles around the sun box for the same money. before any one asks - I have worked for 2 different sun resellers and our company was a sun certified resellre as recent as 2 years ago and we used to run all our stuff on e250's.

    so yes I know what I am talking about.
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  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Aboul_YouseF
    Well, you see it depends , not all Sun systems support LINUX, and most probably NONE support windows. You should check that out in sun.com , ull find out that All of their servers run on Solaris, and some on LINUX....

    BTW, what do you mean by saying youre getting this server for a couple of hundred bucks<<< 1 SCSI drive costs a hell more than a hundred bucks..... And isnt this 400MHZ a 64-bit processor?
    Okay, that's what I thought. I have never used Solaris, is it similar to Red Hat? Does it have a GUI? I want to use this server as the center of my home network, will it be able to make 'virtual' drives that my other computers can save stuff on?

    I would not pay anything for it because you can put that money into an amd or intel machine and run circles around the sun box for the same money. before any one asks - I have worked for 2 different sun resellers and our company was a sun certified resellre as recent as 2 years ago and we used to run all our stuff on e250's.

    so yes I know what I am talking about.
    your saying that you can get an intel / AMD that can run circles around this sun, for a few hundred bucks?

  14. #14
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    Apples and Oranges here. You just can't compare Sun & x86 boxes like that; they're for entirely different purposes.

    I'd say, for what you want to use it for, it is better than any x86 based machine you can buy. Sun machines are much more stable and reliable. Also, the architecture is much better designed resulting in a much more balanced system rather than the major bottlenecks you run across with x86. Also, it is indeed 64bit with a whopping load of cache. One neat thing about sparcs is that they have multiple sets of registers, so rather than backing up everything onto the stack it will just change the pointer to which set you are using resulting in MUCH better multithreading.

    Windows does NOT run on Sun hardware. It would be a complete waste of the hardware to even if it did anyway.

    Linux support of Sparc64 is pretty good; I am pretty certain the E250 would be supported.

    Personally however, especially if this is going to be the center of your network (which I take to mean your gateway?), I would highly recommend using OpenBSD. It has VERY good Sparc support, and has much better out of the box security. Also, the packet filter (routing/firewalling) pf is regarded by many to be the best out there right now. Personally, I much prefer it to Linux's IPTables.

  15. #15
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    I'm with Sailor on this one. Stay with Intel or AMD.

    Unless you want to purchase this as something to play with or to learn Solaris on my advice is to pass.

    To understand the difference between the SPARC and a Intel or AMD chip I suggest reading up on CISC vs. RISC.

    I don't agree that SUN hardware is so incredibly superior. Quality on their low-end offerings has steadily gone downhill over the last 2 years along with support. SUN is in serious financial trouble and they are making deap cuts. Unless you are someone like eBay or Hotmail you don't need SUN.

    Solaris is System V UNIX. It is similar to Linux not the same. If you want Linux or BSD UNIX stay on an Intel/AMD chip.

    There is a GUI for Solaris is called CDE (Common Desktop Environment). I don't like it at all but it is going to be replaced with the next release of Solaris - which is due out very soon. GNOME is replacing it, I believe.

  16. #16
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    FreeBSD will also support Sparc64. I had it running on a 64-bit Netra one time (what a pain that was, no cdrom/floppy). It was right when 5.0 came out. I didn't get to stress it, but it worked...
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  17. #17
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    Okay, this is basically what I want it for:

    1. To basically be the hard drive for all my computers (running windows) to store stuff on.

    2. Share my broadband connection with all my computers.

    3. Be a print server.

    I'm not very good with Linux, and would much rather prefer a server running Windows 2003 Server, but because this is going to go so cheap at the auction I am still interested.

    Is Solaris free? How easy would it be to install a Solaris GUI? This server DOES NOT come with a video card, could I install any old PCI video card? Thanks!

  18. #18
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    No matter what, you're going to have to do a fair bit of config editing by hand with this machine to accomplish those tasks you edited, whether you use Solaris, Linux, or BSD. So, I guess you would be better off with an Intel/AMD box after all.

  19. #19
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    Originally posted by hhw
    No matter what, you're going to have to do a fair bit of config editing by hand with this machine to accomplish those tasks you edited, whether you use Solaris, Linux, or BSD. So, I guess you would be better off with an Intel/AMD box after all.
    Okay, if I bought this I guess my main purpose would be to sell it at a profit. How much do you think I would be able to get for this Sun E250 on eBay?

  20. #20
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    Well, to address an earlier comment Bub, this machine will not work with Windows period. As to what unix based platform you can run on it, that's open to debate. Have you picked it up yet BTW?
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  21. #21
    for a few hundred dollars, its a good buy. i am a risc afficionado and own older hp-ux (pa-risc), aix (r6k) and solaris (sparc) systems. luckily, i was able to stifle my addiction before i purchased that 2k alpha box i had my eyes on =]

    paul
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by wb-Edgar
    Well, to address an earlier comment Bub, this machine will not work with Windows period. As to what unix based platform you can run on it, that's open to debate. Have you picked it up yet BTW?
    No, the auction is in two days, I have not got it yet. And I am not sure whether I want it, even for a few hundred bucks. Here are my reasons so being uncertain:

    1. I am pro windows.
    2. I have very little Linux knowledge and can only use it with a GUI.

    Now, what I want to know is whether I can just chuck an old PCI video card in this thing, through my Red Hat 9 CD in it (or install a CD-ROM drive in it, then through the CD in) and use it.

    If not why should I buy it? Also is Solaris free?

    I guess I can't even run Windows 64 bit edition on this thing?

  23. #23
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    Dude, Where's My Windows?

    Bud,

    At least *try* to do a little bit of research on your own. You won't get much help from anyone if it is felt that you are just being lazy and refuse to listen.

    Most of your questions have already been answered and the others can easily be found with minimal effort on your part.


    Try:

    sun.com
    ebay.com
    tldp.org
    openbsd.org
    google.com

  24. #24
    1. right tool for the job. i see you offer linux hosting - why so if you are pro-windows?
    2. the more reason to learn.

    no, you need an sbus video card. chances are it is already in there. you will need the sparc version of redhat. solaris is not entirely free, in that you pay for media afaik. i would advise against installing solaris anyway, since it does require clue and a desire to learn to administer.

    you shouldnt buy it. you do not deserve to own such a beautiful piece of engineering work, especially since you lack the motivation to learn about it on your own.

    no. windows supports x86 only. try mastering one OS for a start, this is basic knowledge.

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  25. #25
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    Re: Dude, Where's My Windows?

    Originally posted by Dragoon
    Bud,

    At least *try* to do a little bit of research on your own. You won't get much help from anyone if it is felt that you are just being lazy and refuse to listen.

    Most of your questions have already been answered and the others can easily be found with minimal effort on your part.


    Try:

    sun.com
    ebay.com
    tldp.org
    openbsd.org
    google.com
    gee wiz, I have done my own research, and I am listening to everyones opinion. I just think that the people here on WHT can give me great advice, as they already have, and I thank them for it.



    1. right tool for the job. i see you offer linux hosting - why so if you are pro-windows?
    2. the more reason to learn.

    no, you need an sbus video card. chances are it is already in there. you will need the sparc version of redhat. solaris is not entirely free, in that you pay for media afaik. i would advise against installing solaris anyway, since it does require clue and a desire to learn to administer.

    you shouldnt buy it. you do not deserve to own such a beautiful piece of engineering work, especially since you lack the motivation to learn about it on your own.

    no. windows supports x86 only. try mastering one OS for a start, this is basic knowledge.

    paul
    good god some people are just a tad rude on WHT! I never said I wasn't willing to learn, in fact I do want to learn! I just don't want to waste my money only to find that you have to have a PHD in Solaris to turn the darn thing on.

    Yes I offer linux hosting, but please note on the following points:

    1. I use managed services, therefore I do not need to be heavily involved in the administration of the servers I use.

    2. I have enough Linux knowledge to hande 99% of the email I recieve asking for help.

    3. If I really don't no the answer to a customers question (1 % of the time) then I research and find it out, or I come and look on WHT.

    I think the above somes things up, I am not lazy and I do want to learn, and I have done my own research...thanks!

  26. #26
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    Okay, this is what I have decided. If I do end up buying it I will install FreeBSD on it and use it as a platform for me to learn FreeBSD as I eventually want to dump Windows all together, as I have a strong dislike towards Microsoft and their business ethics and the cost of Windows and all of the other software needed to go with it.

  27. #27
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    Thought you said you were pro windows! lol
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  28. #28
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    Originally posted by wb-Edgar
    Thought you said you were pro windows! lol
    I am pro-windows as in I know heaps about it, and how to do everything on it. However I don't like Microsoft, and I want to switch to a Unix based OS but have been holding off as I don't know much about FreeBSD and will in a way miss the simplicity of Windows...you know what I mean

  29. #29
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    today is the big day, I will be going up to $600 AUS on it. I will post here as to whether I get it or not!

  30. #30
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    SPARC is actually the slowest CPU of all, and is not twice faster than Intel for the same MHz. The beauty of SUN architecture is in scalability, not raw CPU power. They can take a lot more than a PC server.

    Just want to make sure you're not dissapointed. It might feel a little slow to you, especially if you run GUI and if you're used to P4 speeds. You should consider putting Solaris on it, you can learn Linux, FreeBSD or OpenBSD on a PC as well.
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  31. #31
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    It ended up going for 900 bucks, so I didn't get it oh well....

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