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  1. #1
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    Best Provider Combination

    Just wondering what everyone thinks is the best combination of the following providers. For our new setup we will be going with a three provider setup and using NetVMG or RouteScience. Don't worry about cost, we are just going for pure performance. Here are the competitiors, and remember, pick three of them: Level(3), Qwest, Global Crossing, XO, Peer1, & AT&T.

    So far, we are planning on going with Level(3) and trying to decide between the others. What are good complimentary networks?
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  2. #2
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    I would pick Level(3), Peer1, and AboveNet. Between the three (Peer1 and AboveNet guarantee 100% uptime; I think Level(3) does as well), you should have fantastic network connectivity. Level(3) is very strong in LA; AboveNet is very strong in the Bay Area and in NYC; and Peer1 is strong in the east coast and through Canada. Overall, an extremely great mix.

    My AboveNet rep called a couple days ago and told me AboveNet is having a firesale on bandwidth this month, with as little as 100Mbit required to take advantage of the deals. Now would be a good time to hop on that bandwagon and use their sale to drive down prices of the other providers.
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  3. #3
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    overseas?

    if you have a lot of overseas traffic - gx for sure in the far east

    l3 has europe covered - after that pick the chepest price of the rest.

    ps - I dont think abovenet is a choice on this one (although I have them and they rock)
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  4. #4
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    I'd pick Level(3), Global Crossing and Peer1. Here is why:

    Level3
    Big reputable company with oodles of b/w and equipment. Limited downtime (unless someone leaks routes again and causes their entire network to flap)

    Global Crossing
    Also big company, but has recently been way more aggressive with pricing. Should even out the costs without jeapordizing performance.

    Peer1
    Smaller company. I've never dealt with them but they seem like a company that could be more helpful in time of need. for example, if you need quick turnaround on additional capacity, or if you need someone to do quick filtering when a DoS attack starts brewing.

  5. #5
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    You should see if you could pick up ATT. They're screwing everybody over on peering, seems having them direct or having MCI would give u the least chance in the long run to run into trouble with ATT subscribers (comcast and i think cox). Peer1 would give you MCI and GX for now, so there isn't a need for those.

  6. #6
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    Abovenet UUNET GBLX CW L3

  7. #7
    Love Level(3)

    Would second Erica on MFN/Abovenet, and would either go for GX, Peer1 or UUNet.

    Can't go wrong with those.

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  8. #8
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    For the record, this will be in Chicago, and I am currently not considering Abovenet because of pricing reasons.
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  9. #9
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    Hmmm... That's a tough one... I would definately choose Peer1, XO, and Level3.

  10. #10
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    So far it's looking like we're definately going with Global Crossing and Level(3), now who should I get for that 3rd line, XO, Peer1, and Qwest are currently the leaders for that third spot.
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  11. #11
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    Originally posted by KarlZimmer
    So far it's looking like we're definately going with Global Crossing and Level(3), now who should I get for that 3rd line, XO, Peer1, and Qwest are currently the leaders for that third spot.
    Great selection you have there! Good luck on finding the 3rd line

  12. #12
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    I would say Peer1.

    They have transit through C&W, GX and UUNet in some areas. The advantage with them is that they peer with most of north america's cable/dsl providers including canadian ISPs via Torix and QIX. (They are peering at another peering point in Vancouver I beleive)

  13. #13
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  14. #14
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    Cogent, Yipes, HE ....



















    Just kidding..

    CW, Level3, Peer1 any day !

  15. #15
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    If I'm going with Peer1 what sense does it really make to go with Global Crossing or C&W since Peer1 connects with both of those right in Chicago?
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  16. #16
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    Amazed AT&T isn't one the list but once. I wonder if it is because they are expensive so not many have had a change to use them? We loved AT&T when we were on it. Our new DC is bringing in AT&T soon.

    Since you want it based off performance and not price, I would choose Level(3), AT&T and XO (because of future projections).

    Also, if you are planning on heavy far-east traffic, Verio is terrific and my first choice out of that region.

  17. #17
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    You've said you are interested in "pure performance," and not price, but then stated that you weren't going with Above because of pricing reasons. Interesting, as AboveNet is inexpensive.

    From the list you provided, I would choose Level(3) and AT&T without skipping a beat if you are a hosting company. There is no reason to choose Peer1 over either of those if you don't care about price and are a host looking for carriers with a lot of eyeballs. I'm amazed that other posters on this thread have completely overlooked this fact! AT&T has a few million cable modems on their network, and they are not going anywhere.

    XO does not have substantial eyeball traffic. That probably won't change in the near future.
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  18. #18
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    AboveNet was based on pricing discrepancies they've been getting me, not the prices themselves. Most seem willing to negotiate pricing, AboveNet doesn't, and that's with two seperate reps there.
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  19. #19
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    AboveNet is giving you crappy pricing? Last time I checked they were running 100 mbps for $5k/month. My choice would probably be Peer1 (that takes care of CW/UUNET/GBLX), I would agree with Mfjp on the reasons for AT&T, and probably XO if you want to keep prices low. Otherwise L3/Qwest are both sexy.
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  20. #20
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    So how does this sound. I will definately go with Peer1 and Level(3), and then the third will be either XO, Qwest, AT&T, or AboveNet. To me, it sounds with any of those I can't really go wrong, chances are it'll be XO or Qwest.
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  21. #21
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    Well, on top of that, you'll also need a BGP engineer that knows what he's doing, if you let BGP run on default, Peer1 would not be used as much as it should be.

  22. #22
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    I suppose I'm beating a dead horse since I've already said this once, but if you don't care about pricing, do not pass on AT&T. They have half the large cable modem operators in the country single-homed to their backbone, and that won't change.
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  23. #23
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    I would go with L3, GBLX, AT&T

    Just curious .. how much is routescience cost anyway ?
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  24. #24
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    The RouteScience unit runs about $50,000 + installation, training, etc. There is also a $7,000 a year support fee, for upgrades, support, etc.

    With the RouteScience unit I don't need to worry about the BGP problems as Mfjp suggested I might :-) I also have a top-rate network engineer anyway...
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  25. #25
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    By top-rate network engineer, are you speaking of Nick Catalano?
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  26. #26
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    Hahaha, now that one was funny. He's barely a tech support operator now let alone a network engineer :-)
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  27. #27
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    I'd go with Peer1, Level 3, and AT&T
    John Kata

  28. #28
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    Peer 1, Level3, AT&T, XO, Qwest, and Cogent Any mix would be good. Just make sure you pick at least one high end and a couple of low end ones if need be.

  29. #29
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    We used to use AT&T but we found all of the routing problems we had to deal with was on the AT&T network. Lots of headaches.
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  30. #30
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    Originally posted by FatalSw1tch
    Peer 1, Level3, AT&T, XO, Qwest, and Cogent Any mix would be good. Just make sure you pick at least one high end and a couple of low end ones if need be.
    It'd still be better if you had a few high end, and one low end
    John Kata

  31. #31
    Originally posted by KarlZimmer
    The RouteScience unit runs about $50,000 + installation, training, etc. There is also a $7,000 a year support fee, for upgrades, support, etc.

    With the RouteScience unit I don't need to worry about the BGP problems as Mfjp suggested I might :-) I also have a top-rate network engineer anyway...
    mind putting me in touch with your sales poc at routescience?

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  32. #32
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    Having Routescience doesn't mean you can get away with some smart minds. They help, but pls don't forget you'll need human minds behind it.

    With the ATT issue, to absolutely deal with it PERMANENTLY, you WILL need MCI or ATT. Having Peer1 doesn't guarantee you will always get to ATT thru MCI. But having MCI guarantees you an always working route to ATT. If you can do the commit, I do suggest you try to pick up ATT directly.

  33. #33
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    Have you looked into peering with any networks? I think I saw you say you were going to Equinix on another thread - if so, you might be able to improve your network performance (and save on transit costs) if you peer directly with some of the cable companies and other smaller ISPs who peer there.

    To answer your question, I'd pick UUNET if you can afford them.

  34. #34
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    Originally posted by Mfjp
    Having Routescience doesn't mean you can get away with some smart minds. They help, but pls don't forget you'll need human minds behind it.
    I think this argument sounds familiar? Ahhh rusko?


    Also, pricing depends on the RS box itself. The one in the CCC DC was almost $200,00 grand from what I was told.

  35. #35
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    You can also take a look at NetVMG/Internap. We have been using the FCP for about 1 year for perfomance routing and it works well.
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  36. #36
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    The pricing I gave was on their 2nd highest model. Yes, we will also have people behind it, we have a very knowledgable and experienced network engineer.

    So how does Peer1, AT&T, and Level(3) sound to everyone?

    I will be looking at a peering link also as soon as I have more routing data to go off of, etc.
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  37. #37
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    Originally posted by KarlZimmer
    The pricing I gave was on their 2nd highest model. Yes, we will also have people behind it, we have a very knowledgable and experienced network engineer.

    So how does Peer1, AT&T, and Level(3) sound to everyone?

    I will be looking at a peering link also as soon as I have more routing data to go off of, etc.
    Those sound like reasonable choices. What made you change your mind regarding AT&T? I'd still choose AboveNet over Peer1, but I don't have any direct experience with Peer1. All I can say is that my AboveNet experience has been and continues to be excellent. :-)
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  38. #38
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    I've actually gotten decent pricing from AT&T, and the arguments being made here about getting access to their broadband clients, etc. make sense.
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