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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    London, UK
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    More rubbish from paysystems...

    Lastnite I noticed a payment got refunded to a client. We didnt authorise or get emailed about the refund it was just showing in our history for that day.

    I just went in and queryed this in paysystems live support and their response was "the customer asked for a refund".

    Is this normal?

    The client pays and the payment is captured, we provide the goods and they simply have to ask paysystems for their moneyback without us hearing a thing about it? Sounds outrageous to me.

    The support rep wasnt interested in answering me any further at this point...

    Welldone paysystems you really are getting shitter by the day!
    Matt Wallis
    United Communications Limited
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    453
    Ya, i've personally never used them, but have heard on several occasions of that happening, you should switch over to worldpay (if you can jusify cost) they don't allow that, and are very reliable from thier customers have told me.
    ................

  3. #3

    Re: More rubbish from paysystems...

    Originally posted by UH-Matt
    Lastnite I noticed a payment got refunded to a client. We didnt authorise or get emailed about the refund it was just showing in our history for that day.

    I just went in and queryed this in paysystems live support and their response was "the customer asked for a refund".

    Is this normal?

    The client pays and the payment is captured, we provide the goods and they simply have to ask paysystems for their moneyback without us hearing a thing about it? Sounds outrageous to me.

    The support rep wasnt interested in answering me any further at this point...

    Welldone paysystems you really are getting shitter by the day!
    Yes that’s what they do. They have refunded about $500 (About 6 months of recurring monthly payment) as per customer request Try to stay away from paysystems.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    We are in the process of getting our own merchant facility, I just couldnt believe the only answer they could give me was "the customer asked for a refund".
    Matt Wallis
    United Communications Limited
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  5. #5
    Yeah best option would be that and nowadays we need very tight rules against chargeback’s and related matters Just my opinion
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
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    3,727
    Yes Matt, PaySystems favours the customer and allows refunds with just a click. Can't really do much there. . .
    Have you Floble'd today?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Texas
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    1,245
    Where as 2checkout does not. They will send you a "customer requests stop" report but the customer cannot get a refund via a button.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    149
    In the merchant control panel(MCP).
    You can add a reply for it and show the tos that is a monthly billing and you did provide the service or even the hard goods.

    You must constantly keep on checking your MCP
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    1,372
    They cancelled a payment to me recently after the order was 2 days old. Of course I had already sent the goods. That is a key service point for us.

    Paysystems cancelled because the guys credit card was from Oz but he was in the Phillipines. High fraud risk. That was there only check. The guy was actually genuine. It would have been better if they asked us to take the responsibility...rather than them cancelling based on a single check point. Their fraud checking is actually a real joke to be honest.

    This guy from Pakistan placed order after order with us (his credit card was from Japan and he said he was from Japan too. His IP was Pakistan though. Then I manually checked all his orders and names were changing...and credit cards were changing...BUT paysystems spotted none of this obvious behavior and captured the payments. I went in and manually cancelled them.

    Warning...Third Party Payment processors are not great at what they do. They are providing a fairly run of the mill service for big bucks. In the main though they are a neccesary evil.

    I am looking into Worldpay now because I need to get a bit more control on the situation.

    Simon

  10. #10
    Originally posted by theprimehost
    Where as 2checkout does not. They will send you a "customer requests stop" report but the customer cannot get a refund via a button.
    That is true and I hope 2CO doesn't change this system as it works well and fair.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1,093
    Agreed, it sounds like paysystems have gone downhill fast, it seems if 2co is fine, paysystems has problems and vice versa, i'm gonna head for 2checkout though.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    1,372
    Originally posted by Laws
    Agreed, it sounds like paysystems have gone downhill fast, it seems if 2co is fine, paysystems has problems and vice versa, i'm gonna head for 2checkout though.
    Their sellers server was down for 9 hours the other day :-)

    To be honest...whoever you go with you will have problems at some stage...it is just that 2checkout seem to have more than others.

    Simon

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    1,227
    PaySystems is BAD. STAY AWAY FROM this company.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,612
    I have heard moneybookers.com do not charge the chargeback fee from merchants. Its located in UK. I was wondering if it could do recurring billings..

    http://www.moneybookers.com/merchant/en/index.html

    Could be an excellent alternative to paysystems or other party processors..

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    1,103
    Paysystems has expanded and therefore have changed some of their charges.

    I think they'll focus less on their third party services and more on their merchant account services starting in the near future.

    I guess a lot of web hosts like myself would have to find a new home.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
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    Yesturday we had 19 long running recurring transactions declined with the error:

    "304: The credit card information is incomplete or invalid"

    How can recurring payments which have been fine for months suddenly have incomplete information?

    Seems that declined transactions are becoming more and more common, constantly sending out new payment links to customers now - administrative nightmare.
    Matt Wallis
    United Communications Limited
    High Performance Shared & Reseller | Managed VPS Cloud | Managed Dedicated
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  17. #17
    Originally posted by UH-Matt
    Yesturday we had 19 long running recurring transactions declined with the error:

    "304: The credit card information is incomplete or invalid"

    How can recurring payments which have been fine for months suddenly have incomplete information?

    Seems that declined transactions are becoming more and more common, constantly sending out new payment links to customers now - administrative nightmare.
    I think you better switch to some other processor....even i heard of moneybookers.com...they never allow charge back...I think you can set it up for recurring payments....This month I will set up their gate in my site too...

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    London, UK
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    We are moving to our own merchant facility, but its time consuming and doesnt happen overnight (~1000 monthly recurrings in paysystems).
    Matt Wallis
    United Communications Limited
    High Performance Shared & Reseller | Managed VPS Cloud | Managed Dedicated
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  19. #19
    I understand...good luck to you

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Australia
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    Originally posted by UH-Matt
    We are moving to our own merchant facility, but its time consuming and doesnt happen overnight (~1000 monthly recurrings in paysystems).
    Yes, we could be not too far behind you Matt. It's not going to be a fun time in moving that volume of accounts to a Merchant facility. Should have done this back when there was only a few hundred to move.

    I'm still trying to devise a methodology to implement this transfer process, but it won't be easy.
    AussieHost.com Aussie Bob, host since 2001
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  21. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Above The Clouds
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    6,999
    Hmmm, looking at well over a thousand recurring payments in the MCC. My partner who heads up accounts said, "I think I'd rather deal with their bullsh1t than transfer processors now."

    I'm just hoping that they get their declining situation under control and become a bit more merchant oriented.

    On chargebacks, they told me that they have no choice. That the CC companies debit their account without telling them so do the same to their merchants. I asked them why do they have special treatment because if you have your own merchant account, you are supposed to have chargeback protection - no-one can just come in and take the cash because after all, it is stealing isn't it .

    Their answer was complete denial that any other processor had such a system.
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  22. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Canada
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    Yes, we could be not too far behind you Matt. It's not going to be a fun time in moving that volume of accounts to a Merchant facility. Should have done this back when there was only a few hundred to move.

    I'm still trying to devise a methodology to implement this transfer process, but it won't be easy
    I was wondering when this was going to happen. I sort of chuckled to myself when I read a post by you saying that the third-party processor was a better solution for you being in Australia. No merchant account could cost that much.

    I just did something like this recently (It was a move from a merchant account with it's own recurring and end merchant has no access to client data, to a merchant account where the end merchant stores client data etc.)

    I do feel sorry for both of you guys, I mean, my client base is insignificant next to both of yours, and I can tell you it was a ROYAL pain getting everyone moved over. (It's two months later and I still have a few stragglers and I think I'm going to have to suspend their accounts)

    The only advice I can offer is give LOTS and LOTS of notice, as far in advance as you can.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    London
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    4,852
    A merchant account is definately the way forward. We're using a combination of 2co and PS and are waiting on a few finalisations from the bank, but we will then be moving customers to the new system. I'm sure that will be fun too.

    Overall though, the benefits easily outweight the downsides - a major one being the amount of money saved. We have got rates of well under 2% for our merchant account.
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  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    1,612
    I think instead of going through all the moving headache one should just leave the current customers on the old system and start taking new orders from the other. Its worth it

  25. #25
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    Aug 2002
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    London, UK
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    Originally posted by ForumsAddict
    I think instead of going through all the moving headache one should just leave the current customers on the old system and start taking new orders from the other. Its worth it
    Thats kind of how we are doing it. We have a flag in our management system to say which merchant the customer is with. We then have a query which lists all paysystems customers and we can slowly work to reduce that list.
    Matt Wallis
    United Communications Limited
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  26. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Tennessee
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    We use 2checkout.com. Haven't had anyproblems.
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  27. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    United Kingdom
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    522
    ~1,000 accounts or even if it was 20 accounts it's in United-Hosting's interests and their clients to find a reliable processor.

    From your account of what's happened Matt it sounds as though there is a fundamental problem over at PaySystems. Money is the life blood of any company, and although transferring in excess of over 1,000 accounts is going to be a serious ball-ache you've gotta do it in order to keep your sanity and your clients confidence.

    We use WorldPay and have had not one single problem, despite processing a significant amount of recurring payments. Like you say though, your own merchant account is around the corner.

    Good luck with it

    Kevin

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    The South
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    We're in the process of migrating about 3500 recurrings from 2co to our merchants account, at the rate we're going (2 per day) we'll be done in uhm, 5 years
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Chesapeake, VA
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    I asked them why do they have special treatment because if you have your own merchant account, you are supposed to have chargeback protection - no-one can just come in and take the cash because after all, it is stealing isn't it .


    Chargeback protection is a misnomer. There really isn't any such thing on a practical level.

    This is due to the way Visa and MasterCard rules and regulations are structured.

    Your real "protection" against chargebacks is in the form of good fraud screening and delivering as promised to customers. Simple steps such as AVS, CVV2 and IP verification will dramatically cut back on your chargebacks on the front-end and good service, cancelling folks when they request, responding promptly, etc. and making it easy for customers to reach you... will help reduce chargebacks on the back-end.

    There is no 100% way to prevent chargebacks from happening and any company that tells you that this is possible... is misinformed, at best.

    Whether a merchant is a true end-user merchant or whether it is a master merchant account operated by a 3rd party processor... when a chargeback comes through, a debit is indeed placed against the merchant.

    The merchant then has the opportunity to respond to the chargeback via a chargeback rebuttal. The exact way that this is handled is subject to pre-defined rules and processes from Visa and MasterCard.
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  30. #30
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    147
    Originally posted by ForumsAddict
    I have heard moneybookers.com do not charge the chargeback fee from merchants. Its located in UK.
    Like PayPal, they require that your customers sign up with MoneyBookers before sending you money. Their sign-up process is also much more involved, including faxing documents.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    1,372
    Originally posted by iStormy
    Like PayPal, they require that your customers sign up with MoneyBookers before sending you money. Their sign-up process is also much more involved, including faxing documents.
    Uhm...thats odd...because I use Paypal in some respects like a merchant account. ie..the client clicks my buy button...goes to paypal and pays with their credit card...I get the cash right away. The client is signed up partly with paypal but it does not affect me getting the cash or not.

    Simon

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    37
    Usual story. Company gets big, then forgets about the bootlickers who got them there.

    Their service has gone downhill faster than a greased rollercoaster.

  33. #33

    Just signing up

    We are a new web hosting company and have chosen PaySystem for our Merchant Account. We are not pushing for sales in overseas market and will wait a couple of days before sending our goods or doing services. Thanks for all the warning from the WebHostingTalk.com
    Brad
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  34. #34
    Matt your use of the english language in this case is right on. Paysystems is a shity company.

    We processed several hundred thousand dollars thru them and have had a ongoing problem since November.

    They refuse to correct it, hell they refuse to even acknowledge it is even a problem.

    I have sent well over 20 support tickets and have gotten only canned replies.

    We no longer use this company for new processing and I strongly urge anyone considering them to look elsewhere.

    Paysystems simply sucks!

    We process everything thru cdgcommerce.com and I highly suggest them. Chris and his crew are top notch!
    Last edited by TotalChoice - Bill; 03-10-2004 at 06:12 PM.
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  35. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    Above The Clouds
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    We've done many hundreds of thousands of dollars through them as well and I don't think they suck. I do wish they'd sort out their email notification system as that's the only thing that's annoying. But we keep an eye on things but it's extra work.
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  36. #36
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Kansas and PEI
    Posts
    409
    Originally posted by NexDog
    I do wish they'd sort out their email notification system as that's the only thing that's annoying. But we keep an eye on things but it's extra work.
    What problems are you having with their email notifications? same as me? I recently had a customer signup and a day later I was in my MCP and saw it, I never got an email from PS telling me about a new payment has arrived (I had them always arrive before)

    I asked chat about it and they said it may have been my spam filters.. (nope.. not that) but now I am paronoid and check the mcp a few times a day, even though it takes FOREVER to load.. it is getting slower and slower everyday

  37. #37
    Originally posted by InternetPEI
    I asked chat about it and they said it may have been my spam filters.. (nope.. not that) but now I am paronoid and check the mcp a few times a day, even though it takes FOREVER to load.. it is getting slower and slower everyday
    Oh yes, the same "answers" I get everytime...

  38. #38
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Kansas and PEI
    Posts
    409
    so it is not just me huh?

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    The South
    Posts
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    I got tired of the spotty emails from recurring payments and the really convoluted interface (2checkout kicks their butt on the interface end, 2co is about as easy to use as you can get, and the Paysystems interface gets me mad every time I use it). So I got a merchant account for new business.
    Gary Harris - the artist formerly known as Dixiesys
    resident grumpy redneck

  40. #40
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    London
    Posts
    189
    2checkout only supports 1 currency which is US Dollar. We dont have much choice in UK. We can either go for Worldpay or Paysystems. Worldpay is quiet stable company and provides you fraud screening and protection against to chargebacks but it comes with a price. On the otherhand you have PAYSYSTEMS who is cheap but with a horrible service. If you are in budget you go with PAYSYSTEMS and suffer.

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