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  1. #1
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    Rollover Bandwidth --

    I was browsing and came across Hostrocket's site (not dialup friendly) and noticed a new term that I have not seen offered elsewhere. They call it Rollover Bandwidth. An interesting concept though I wouldn't think it would be offered or to popular with most hosting providers?

    What are your thoughts?

  2. #2
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    It's a very interesting and apetizing offer to anyone browsing their website just as it is with cell phone companies. I must say if they can do it and it works for them, then more power to them.

  3. #3
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    Does it apply to their colocation and dedicated server customers?
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  4. #4
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    Nope just regular shared hosting.

    -Brendan

  5. #5
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    I offered this idea back in October 2001 in the psoft forums::

    http://forum.psoft.net/showthread.php?threadid=2048

    *Ahem* You have to be a private member of the forums to see that post. Many here are. Anyway, my idea was NOT well recieved. It's a shame too. So many hsphere hosts could have had a huge advantage. I'm sure Cpanel will get to that point one day soon too....maybe around year 3029

  6. #6
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    I'm sure Cpanel will get to that point one day soon too....maybe around year 3029
    I'm not so sure, with the rate that cPanel seems to turn out new versions, I think we can expect a version by no later than the year 2010. On a more serious note, I think really it would be a great idea to implement that some companies could use. It definitely will attract those that have high transfer websites.

  7. #7
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    Your business plan would certainly have to be solid if you allow a full transfer of unused bandwidth. If not, you'll fall into debt very quickly. Sometimes, hosts anticipate that customers will not use all of their bandwidth and then overfll the servers.

    On the other hand, this could encourage NOT-overselling.
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  8. #8
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    It would be virtually impossible to offer without serious overselling.
    Lets say you sell 100 5gb accounts on a 700gb server.
    The law of averages would indicate that month two you would have about 98 clients who roll over 3-4gb of space into the next month.
    Now you would need to be able to offer 800gb minimum. It would snowball from there.
    You would either have to only sell a few accounts per server or oversell massively.

  9. #9
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    Originally posted by cybexhost
    Your business plan would certainly have to be solid if you allow a full transfer of unused bandwidth. If not, you'll fall into debt very quickly. Sometimes, hosts anticipate that customers will not use all of their bandwidth and then overfll the servers.

    On the other hand, this could encourage NOT-overselling.
    crap im screwed!

  10. #10
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    The interesting thing, is back when Cingular started doing it, I thought to myself...."that would be GREAT for hosting!" However, since I couldnt do it yet, I wrote the idea up in a letter, and mailed it to myself....which still sits on my desk sealed and secure

  11. #11
    anyways, who would use that much of bandwidth for hosting, I dont find this option very useful

  12. #12
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    Well, you wouldnt roll it over for an entire year like Cingular does. However, let's say the following::

    Cust A is allowed 50 gigs.
    Uses 40 in March....
    Now has 50+10 for April.
    In April he uses only 30 gigs.
    The 10 left over does NOT rollover to May to make 80 gigs.

    Only the 20 gigs from April rolls over to May...not 30.

  13. #13
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    That's the way that I believe it works for HR (please correct me if I am wrong).

    As an example, your hosting plan entitles you to 50GB of bandwidth each and every month, but you only used 40GB of that in February. HostRocket will take the unused 10GB and roll it over to the next month, so in March, you can use a total of 60GB without being charged for overages.
    Notice that it says nothing about that transfer rolling over to April. It comes down to, if the customer had that much transfer to roll over in the first months (especially large amounts) then why all of a sudden would he use it all the second month? Odds are he won't.

  14. #14
    Originally posted by CrazyTech
    That's the way that I believe it works for HR (please correct me if I am wrong).



    Notice that it says nothing about that transfer rolling over to April. It comes down to, if the customer had that much transfer to roll over in the first months (especially large amounts) then why all of a sudden would he use it all the second month? Odds are he won't.
    You're right he probably wouldn't use it all the next month. However, if he did what do you think would happen to the amount of server resources he would use? Then what do you think would happen next?

  15. #15
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    You're right he probably wouldn't use it all the next month. However, if he did what do you think would happen to the amount of server resources he would use? Then what do you think would happen next?
    We all know quite well what would happen. It's a calculated risk, but from the way I view it, the chances are in HR's favor that no one will ever use that much. With the sites that do use near that amount, an increase of 10 GB won't hurt all that much if it is used. It's just like overselling, personally I wouldn't take the risk, but it can be done.

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by HRBrendan
    crap im screwed!
    I swear that sounded so Sarcastic
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  17. #17
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    Well around 6 months ago I was thinking of doing rollover bandwidth, but I saw a flaw in the feature. It would not do well with small webhosting companies. The reason is is if a person doesn't use the alotted bandwidth and you have 50 clients with 1 GB space and 50 GB bandwidth they could overload the server with the roller over bandwidth, so I scratched the idea.
    Kerry Jones

  18. #18
    Greetings:

    What is the huge advantage to roll over bandwidth?

    What is the business logic when it comes to the business owner ROI, profit, and loss?

    While the tought of roll over bandwidth may give warm fuzzies to clients, what's the financial impact to the provider?

    Thank you.
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  19. #19
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    Basically, I think the Rollover Bandwidth is a comfort zone. Here is an example of when Rollover Bandwidth would come in handy, but I would never do it because of what I stated above.

    Webspace 1 GB
    Bandwidth 50 GB

    Ok, the first month I use 3 GB bandwidth, so the next month I will have 93 GB bandwidth. I have a friend named "Bob" who wants to upload some material for his site. In all I say "Bob you can only upload 30 MB worth of files" but Bob uploads a 50 MB file. Lets say Bob begins putting the link to other websites and people begin to download. The next day I see bob had uploaded this file, but I have taken it down. In all 1,500 people have consumed 75 GB bandwidth. Now if I did not have Roller Bandwidth I would be charged for 25 GB bandwidth and that usually runs around $3 per GB. Which I would end up paying a $75 fee for the overuse. Basically Rollover Bandwidth is automatic insurance for web users.
    Kerry Jones

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Jones
    Basically Rollover Bandwidth is automatic insurance for web users.
    Let me offer another possibility based on your example. When Bob starts getting 75 GBs worth of bandwidth usage in a month the resources on the server increase and you wake up to find your entire account suspended/deleted. But let's not stop there, how about if there are 10 Bob's on the server you're on and they all decide to start using their *rollover* bandwidth? What happens to the server's resources then?

    Something like this certainly wouldn't give me the "warm and fuzzies. I would be much more concerned as to what would happen to the server I was on if everyone started using their rollover amounts. The server would eventually reach a point where there would be no possible way it could push all of the accumulated rollover amounts that it is responsible for without failure.

  21. #21
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    Let me offer another possibility based on your example. When Bob starts getting 75 GBs worth of bandwidth usage in a month the resources on the server increase and you wake up to find your entire account suspended/deleted. But let's not stop there, how about if there are 10 Bob's on the server you're on and they all decide to start using their *rollover* bandwidth? What happens to the server's resources then?

    Something like this certainly wouldn't give me the "warm and fuzzies. I would be much more concerned as to what would happen to the server I was on if everyone started using their rollover amounts. The server would eventually reach a point where there would be no possible way it could push all of the accumulated rollover amounts that it is responsible for without failure.
    That's great knowledge that many of us here at WHT are blessed with: however, the average 'Joe' is not. They see rollover bandwidth and are amazed that no one else offers it.

    The thing is, the odds are in fact in favor of the host provided the situation is properly monitored. The odds of multiple accounts on the server using little transfer the first, and much more the second are fairly slim, and safe enough to take a 'chance' on.
    Last edited by CrazyTech; 12-11-2003 at 05:10 PM.

  22. #22
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    Geeze. I can't believe the what ifs.

    It is a great marketing idea by a host who understands their cusotmer base and their customer's use.
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  23. #23
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    I agree completely UBC. I think some are just trying to figure out how they go about it for their own sake or for the fun of it.

  24. #24
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    I see this "roll over" thingy is pretty much useless.

    Think about it, if your site uses 30GB bandwidth per month, in no way it could go past 50GB anytime soon, so 70GB the next month is pretty much meaningless.

    And even if your site get busier say 55GB per month, in no way it could go back to 30GB, so you'll end up pay extra anyway since you site will always use more than 50GB. So the ONLY advantage of "roll over" in this case is the first month when your site jumping from 30GB to 55GB.

    My examples above apply to most, if not all, websites. Unless this month you doing "porn movies" and the next month you don't, that would be a the real userfulness of "roll over" bandwidth .

  25. #25
    Rollover bandwidth.. wow.. Cingular should offer web hosting. That's where they took the trendy 'roll over' idea from. They were watching TV instead of answering tickets.

    And dobo is right about the porn. That's who can take advantage of it. I'm sure this will all go down soon..

  26. #26
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    It's a marketing edge. IMO most hosts will probably go this way.
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  27. #27
    It's just a different way to oversell. It isn't a "what if" it's just a matter of when. At some point the accumulated rollover bandwidth will reach a point where the server couldn't possibly transfer the amount.

  28. #28
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    Originally posted by Watcher_TVI
    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Jones
    Basically Rollover Bandwidth is automatic insurance for web users.
    Let me offer another possibility based on your example. When Bob starts getting 75 GBs worth of bandwidth usage in a month the resources on the server increase and you wake up to find your entire account suspended/deleted. But let's not stop there, how about if there are 10 Bob's on the server you're on and they all decide to start using their *rollover* bandwidth? What happens to the server's resources then?

    Something like this certainly wouldn't give me the "warm and fuzzies. I would be much more concerned as to what would happen to the server I was on if everyone started using their rollover amounts. The server would eventually reach a point where there would be no possible way it could push all of the accumulated rollover amounts that it is responsible for without failure.
    You forgot the part about our datacenter most likely being struck by lightning during a catastrophic flood during an earthquake too. This stuff is way too risky, stay away!

    -Brendan

  29. #29
    Greetings:

    What is the huge advantage to roll over bandwidth to the provider?

    What is the business logic when it comes to the business owner ROI, profit, and loss?

    While the thought of roll over bandwidth may give warm fuzzes to clients, what's the financial impact to the provider?

    Thank you.

    P.S. Has there been consideration that most providers pay for bandwidth monthly; and, they themselves have no roll over?

    The payment for such bandwidth is the same without concern over what clients use unless they go over, or more MB per second has to be purchased et all. However, should enough % of roll over be used in a given month, the financial impact to the provider may be large enough to cause serious financial problems.
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  30. #30
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    And it might not be too. You could give us a tiny shred of credit here and assume we did at least a little bit of math and testing on this before we implemented it. We have a large enough customer base and enough data about how much bandwidth they use and have used in the past that it wouldnt be real hard for me to tell you exactly how much extra this would have cost us to do for the past year. We own our own datacenter for a reason, and buy bandwidth in large enough bulk that it makes this a very feasible and sustainable model.

    -Brendan

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by HRBrendan
    We own our own datacenter for a reason,
    You don't own the space you occupy, you rent about 20% of someone else's building. The fiber that comes into that building was not installed by you and is shared by all of the tenants in the building. Just to clarify....

    This rollover gimick really has nothing to do with the bandwidth from a user's perspective. The simple facts are that the rollover will eventually accumulate to a point where the machine is incapable of using it without maxing out on the resources. It's really no less deceiving than a cell phone company rolling over unused minutes. I am still trying to figure out how they roll over unlimited nights and week ends. I guess as soon as someone figures that out we'll see rollover bandwidth for unlimited bandwidth providers.....

  32. #32
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    Unlimited times two. Sounds good to me!

  33. #33
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    Well, in the defence of HR here...I would like for one of the staff to correct me if I am wrong, but as I have said before I don't think this deal rolls over from month to month to month. I am sure that this process has been well though out and it's not something a company would go 'gung-ho' into.

    Sure it may be a marketing ploy, but when you think about it, how many cars and other companies (including hosting) have all these bells and whistles that only a fraction actually utilize?

    t's really no less deceiving than a cell phone company rolling over unused minutes. I am still trying to figure out how they roll over unlimited nights and week ends.
    Well, not to be rude, but they'd roll over the minutes used during the daytime period which is not during weekends or the night.

  34. #34
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    Originally posted by Watcher_TVI
    Quote Originally Posted by HRBrendan
    We own our own datacenter for a reason,
    You don't own the space you occupy, you rent about 20% of someone else's building. The fiber that comes into that building was not installed by you and is shared by all of the tenants in the building. Just to clarify....

    This rollover gimick really has nothing to do with the bandwidth from a user's perspective. The simple facts are that the rollover will eventually accumulate to a point where the machine is incapable of using it without maxing out on the resources. It's really no less deceiving than a cell phone company rolling over unused minutes. I am still trying to figure out how they roll over unlimited nights and week ends. I guess as soon as someone figures that out we'll see rollover bandwidth for unlimited bandwidth providers.....
    The rollover bandwidth is month to month. Thus meaning, the highest someone could ever has is 140GB's of bandwidth for one month. Now if they don't push 70GB's the first month, I consider it highly unlikely that they're going to push 140 the next month.

  35. #35
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    How is this any better than offering unlimited disk space?
    It's all a scam as far as I'm concerned.
    You say that the highest someone could push is 140Gb but what if there are 40 clients all wanting to do it?

  36. #36
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    Originally posted by blue27
    How is this any better than offering unlimited disk space?
    It's all a scam as far as I'm concerned.
    You say that the highest someone could push is 140Gb but what if there are 40 clients all wanting to do it?
    What's the likely hood of that happening though? And if it does happen, that is host rockets problem. They're playing a game of russian roulette here. If they get the bad end of the deal, then let them deal with it.

    They're not offering any unlimited resources, so I don't see how you can even compare it to unlimited disk space. Just because it's rolled over from the previous month doesn't mean it's unlimited.

    In my opinion it's a great marketing idea, that I'm sure many other hosts will use in the times to come.

    It's nearly the same thing as you saying you offer unparrelled support in your plans. Maybe I should bash you because I don't know if you can offer it, just like you don't think HostRocket can't offer it rollover bandwidth.

    ... and yes I did just edit my post ...

  37. #37
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    Hosts get trashed here all the time for offering unlimited plans or overselling. They are basing their business plan on exactly that. "What's the likely hood of that happening"
    I compare it because it is false economics either way and it is a sleezy way of bringing in clients because you can't back up your claims in the worst case scenario.


    Nearly the same as us offering Unparalleled Support?

    I guess there is really no point in arguing here if you really believe that.

    See Ya.

  38. #38
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    Exactly inogenius, I think many miss that point. It's just like overselling. If it's properly thought out and monitored, you're not going to have a problem. The odds of sites all pulling very low transfer one month and very high the next month are low.

    The thing is, they can offer it for the most part and then move someone if they must. Some seem to look over the fact that not everyone on a given server will use every single resource. The odds are much higher than someone on an unlimited account in my opinion.

  39. #39
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    Originally posted by CrazyTech
    Exactly inogenius, I think many miss that point. It's just like overselling. If it's properly thought out and monitored, you're not going to have a problem. The odds of sites all pulling very low transfer one month and very high the next month are low.

    I agree it's one marketing good marketing tactic, and I guess we'll just see if it works or not.
    They've been offering it for nearly 2 months now. I haven't seen any complaints about them here for quite a while.

  40. #40
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    2 months simply isn't enough time to evaluate yet. It needs to be a good year in all honesty, and even longer would be better IMHO.

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