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11-25-2003, 06:46 PM #1Newbie
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Need Help! I received a trademark cease and desist letter
Hey All,
I received a a trademark cease and desist letter from Liquid Web Inc. today stating that I violated a trademark by using the word Liquid in by business name. I thought to myself, well how could someone own the word Liquid? According to all the people I talked to they said this was impossible and this letter I received in my e-mail is BS. I also thought that if this was serious I would of received it via certified letter not via e-mail. I need your guys opinion on this because I really don't know what to do at this point. I am planning on contacting my lawyer tomorrow but I just think its crazy for them to force me to close my business because of the world Liquid in my business name.
The letter:
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I am writing to you on behalf of Liquid Web, Inc.
Liquid Web, Inc. owns numerous trademarks and service marks, including, but not limited to, Liquid Web Inc., Liquid Web, and the word "liquid" in any web hosting services, (collectively referred to as the "Liquid Web, Inc. Marks"). The Liquid Web, Inc. Marks possess significant goodwill, are of great value to Liquid Web, Inc. and are the subject of numerous trademark registrations. This can be reviewed at the "United States Patent and Trademark Office.
The Liquid Web, Inc. Marks have been used for many years in connection with promotion of Liquid Web, Inc. products and services. As a result, the Liquid Web, Inc. Marks are known throughout the world as identifying Liquid Web, Inc. and it's products.
In order to protect and enhance the value of the Liquid Web, Inc. Marks, Liquid Web, Inc. grants limited licenses to select parties to provide products and services authorized to bear the Liquid Web, Inc. Marks. These licensed parties are held to specific standards and guidelines subject to approval by Liquid Web, Inc..
It has recently come to our attention that you are engaging in the offering for sale and sale of unauthorized products bearing Liquid Web, Inc. Marks. Your use of the Liquid Web, Inc. Marks on unlicensed products is likely to confuse consumers into believing that you have a direct relationship with, are affiliated with, associated with, or endorsed by Liquid Web, Inc.. Further, your sale and offering for sale of such trademark constitutes trademark infringement, unfair competition and dilution in violation of federal and state statutes and the common law.
Liquid Web, Inc. demands that you immediately cease and desist from offering for sale, selling, advertising, marketing and/or promoting any trademark products bearing Liquid Web, Inc. Marks. We ask that we receive written assurance by close of business Tue Dec 2 2003 that you will comply with these demands.
We would like to resolve this matter amicably, but in the absence of a favorable, timely response, we are prepared to take all steps necessary to preserve and protect the rights of Liquid Web, Inc. without further notice to you.
The statement of facts set forth in this letter is not intended to be, nor shall it be deemed to be, a full and complete statement of the facts in this matter. This letter is not intended to be a complete statement of our rights, and shall not be construed as a waiver of any legal or equitable rights or remedies, all of which are expressly reserved.
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The above letter to me states that they want me to close my business because I am using the word Liquid. What about all the other business that use the word Liquid? I have seen hosting companies use it in there name as well as computer companies. I need your opinions on this before I file something with my lawyer. I appreciate anyones comments.
Thanks.0
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11-25-2003, 06:53 PM #2Web Hosting Master
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First, what is the name of your business? Second, what is the nature of your business?
They state:
Liquid Web, Inc. owns numerous trademarks and service marks, including, but not limited to, Liquid Web Inc., Liquid Web, and the word "liquid" in any web hosting services
They may have a case. It depends on your business. Of course I wouldn't take my word for it. I'd wait and see what your attorney has to say.Dale Poncy
Retired from Zana Web Hosting0
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11-25-2003, 06:53 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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What's your website?
I'd like to see it, before replying about the letter..EIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network™.0
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11-25-2003, 06:58 PM #4WHT Addict
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They're not asking you to close your business, they're justing asking that you stop using the word Liquid in your products. I can see the confusion though (damm leagalese)
We ask that we receive written assurance by close of business Tue Dec 2 2003 that you will comply with these demands.0
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11-25-2003, 06:59 PM #5Newbie
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My website is liquidteknologies com. I am a web hosting company as well. Very small one with about 40-50 employees. Now I was curious as I stated to my lawyer about this and he told me they could just be filing to make me pay attorney fees and eventually make me go backrupt. Thank you all.
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11-25-2003, 07:00 PM #6Newbie
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My attorney just briefly spook but I plan on meeting with him tomorrow. Just wanted to put that he didn't say everything yet.
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11-25-2003, 07:26 PM #7Disabled
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Your company is small but has 40-50 employees?
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11-25-2003, 07:27 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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As I read their trademark registration, it's for the word mark "liquid web," and wouldn't cover every use of "liquid" related to web hosting. As long as you don't use that two-word term and stick to using only "liquid teknologies" you should be ok as far as the word mark.
But... how attached are you to your logo? Their logo is trademarked, and yours looks a lot like it -- similar typeface, and the stylized globe image at best hints at theirs. I'd worry more about that, though I would recommend making sure that the term "liquid web" isn't used anywhere on your site.
But by all means get an opinion from an attorney knowledgeable on patent and trademark law. Which means that if your's isn't, don't stop with his opinion -- ask him to refer you to someone.
[edit]
By the way, it'd certainly be possible for them, or anyone else, to have exclusive trademark rights to using the word "liquid" in hosting-related services. In searching at the USPTO, I can't find evidence that they do -- but it's possible.
[/edit]Last edited by JayC; 11-25-2003 at 07:35 PM.
Specializing in SEO and PPC management.0
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11-25-2003, 07:51 PM #9Newbie
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Jay,
No use of Liquid Web is on my site but I thank you very much for your reply. I contacted my attorney and asked him a couple questions. He responded that there is a company called Liquid WEBS with an S and this was registered in 1996. Liquid Web Inc. was registered in 1997. So isn't that copyright infridgement? Anyway the serial number for liquid WEBS: 2080103.
Thanks.0
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11-25-2003, 07:57 PM #10Newbie
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Robert,
I don't believe that 40-50 employees is big compared to some of the other companies out there so I put it as small considering myself and my expectations.0
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11-25-2003, 08:01 PM #11Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by Tux2k4
My website is liquidteknologies com. I am a web hosting company as well. Very small one with about 40-50 employees. Now I was curious as I stated to my lawyer about this and he told me they could just be filing to make me pay attorney fees and eventually make me go backrupt. Thank you all.
Do they have a legitimate case? If they have the name "liquid" trademarked for use in hosting, yes, they do. Would they win....I don't know.0
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11-25-2003, 08:09 PM #12Newbie
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Incognito,
Thanks for your reply! Yes it is www.liquidteknologies.com. Someone else was able to visit it here. I'm not getting any reported downtime unless your DNS in your area is acting up. I am planning on advising my attorney tomorrow and sit down and have a chat with him. Aparentally he ran a check on the word Liquid for hosting services nothing showed up but there can always be a chance it could be there still.0
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11-25-2003, 08:16 PM #13Web Hosting Guru
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Interesting situation you're going through, would you mind to keep us posted on what happens?
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11-25-2003, 08:18 PM #14Newbie
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DoMeric,
Sure I would be glad too. Maybe I can offer advise if this ever happens to anyone.0
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11-25-2003, 09:09 PM #15Web Hosting Master
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Yes, it would certainly be interesting to see what scare tactics come in to play, as is usual in these cases.
I'm not 100% sure what services they are refering to, with regards to unauthorized... but I notice "unfair competition" in the letter, I'd advise you to remove the unmetered bandwidth tag from your site, as I'm quite sure this is what has put a "bee in their bonnet"EIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network™.0
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11-25-2003, 09:14 PM #16Newbie
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IHSL,
Hey thanks. I was also noting to my attorney about that they said that it is the competition he thinks they are worying about as they probably noticed me on Yahoo for sponsored results for quite some time. I took it offline for now to see how this settles through. Im willing to take all actions to keep my business intact. I also think they are worying about the unmetered bandwidth. That is true with all packages. We offer unmetered bandwidth for all customers. People have used terrabytes of data every month. I will keep anyone who is interested in this case updated as I progress with this.
Thanks for your reply.0
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11-25-2003, 09:25 PM #17Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by Tux2k4
Robert,
I don't believe that 40-50 employees is big compared to some of the other companies out there so I put it as small considering myself and my expectations.
Also -they could just be filing to make me pay attorney fees and eventually make me go backrupt.
I do not mean to be pushy, but if you ask for help, at least be honest about things.
Maybe you meant 40 -50 customers?BeDifferentSolutions | "For when Indian-based solutions just won't do."
*We hire, train and manage extremely skilled technical support employees for your business*
US and European Based Representatives | Dedicated and Semi-Dedicated Options | Level 1/2/3 Skillsets
Expertise Since 1999 | www.bedifferentsolutions.com | info@bedifferentsolutions.com0
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11-25-2003, 09:34 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by UmBillyCord
Maybe you meant 40 -50 customers?EIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network™.0
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11-25-2003, 09:49 PM #19Newbie
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Hello,
I apologize I really didn't understand your guys post. I actually meant to say 40-50 customers per server and I have about 4 or 5. With the unlimited bandwidth tag I also mis-understood you as well with that. I will take your advise when i get a chance. I thank you for your help. As you can see I don't understand english very well sometimes and I apologize if I meant to sound rude at all to any of you and I thank you for your advise you have provided me thus far.Last edited by Tux2k4; 11-25-2003 at 09:55 PM.
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11-25-2003, 11:09 PM #20Web Hosting Master
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the only thing I can say is talk to your attorney and ignore everything else mentioned here accept for that piece of advice .
Note : Generic legal disclaimer , IANAL (I am not a lawyer)0
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11-25-2003, 11:13 PM #21Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by demonmoo
the only thing I can say is talk to your attorney and ignore everything else mentioned here accept for that piece of advice .
Note : Generic legal disclaimer , IANAL (I am not a lawyer)EIRCA Ltd, home of The Genius Network™.0
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11-25-2003, 11:36 PM #22Web Hosting Master
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when dealing with legal disputes , one of the last places to seek legal information.
The best advice that can be given in a legal situation (if you can affoard it) is some one who is trained in those matters .0
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11-25-2003, 11:47 PM #23Web Hosting Master
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It's usually pertinent in a letter such as that to prove those trademarks by providing the registered numbers issued. Without those numbers, it's a useless email. I highly doubt they can control the use of the word "liquid" in any company who so desires to have that part of their name, even if a web hosting company.
Although, I'd be sure to talk to a lawyer about this.0
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11-25-2003, 11:52 PM #24Newbie
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Hey,
I looked up some trademark information and found this:
Generic Names, Personal Names, Place Names, and comon adjectives are not valid trademarks. About the comon abjectives wouldn't Liquid be included in that? I did find a link for his registration:
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?r...entry=75775816
Also the one I found similar that sells software is Liquid Webs (with a S.)
URL for that is:
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?r...&entry=2080103
Thanks!0
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11-26-2003, 01:06 AM #25Newbie
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Hey All,
Listen to this. My support team was doing there normal clean up of tickets and finished answering the few that were on tonight. We noticed an interesting ticket asking about servers and management. He asked why our logo looks like Liquid Web, Why the website is typed the same way (Im still curious how that saught that out) and what not. Especially there logo. You put ours side by side there not even alike or the same font. He was answering about 4000 questions regarding our company and its personal information. Aparently we decided to run an IP check on who submitted this. Our support team ran the check and guess what? IP showed up as: LIQUID WEB-DS03, Verio Inc. Interesting isn't it? So he sends an e-mail to us regarding our company and its infrigments which is a bunch of BS since I talked my attorney and explained to him what has just happened. It seems there trying to force something out of line and something seems very fishy here. He started off by saying, (after I checked the ticket logs) Went something like I love the unique name of Liquid Teknologies... What inspired you to change to this? I don't know about me but seems like he likes the name or feels I am a threat to him. Do not know. Any additonal opinions or comments?0