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  #1  
Old 11-22-2003, 01:50 PM
macaroni macaroni is offline
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Just bought a server, got a couple of questions...


I actually just received a server I bought off of Ebay...

AMD Athlon 1.2 MP machine with teh Tyan Thunder MB(SCSI Ultra 160 onbaord), 1 Gig of ECC Ram, 60 gig IDE HD, 18.4gig 10K SCSI. I thought I was getting a tower, turns out it's a Rack that someone had been using as their desktop.

It's got 10 slots for hard drives that are split into two columns. Would this be a 4U case or 3U? The 2 fans for cooling are massive and push a lot of air through the case. Whoever had it had put a zip drive, cd writer, firewire card, and sound card in it. I got it for $325 plus shipping.

My plans are to co-locate at Server Matrix.

Now my questions... All I have is the square box. Are there rails I'll need to purchase before shipping it for colocation? I would like to pull the zip and burner out, but I don't have the blanks I'd need to fill the holes with. Should I just leave em in or take em out and leave the holes?

i do plan on upgrading the CPU's especially after seeing the cooling in this thing, looks to be fairly industrial strength.

Thanks,
Mac

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  #2  
Old 11-22-2003, 02:48 PM
RSanders RSanders is offline
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Larger machines you can surface mount without rails. Its not as easy to work on, but it will mount solid. As long as you have the mounting tabs on the face, some people take them off for desktop duity. Either way, they should have a shelf to sit it on too.

I would just take them out and leave holes. As long as your in an enviromentally controlled room, dust and such is not a huge concern.

Also, check the boards revision for support for the newer CPU's before you drop your cash on them. Also, retail AMD HSF's are sufficient for 2U and up, and the ones for the higher speed chips are pretty nice. Some even have copper base. Rackmount cooling is all based on case air flow, but after 2u its almost a mute point.

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  #3  
Old 11-22-2003, 04:43 PM
macaroni macaroni is offline
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Thanks for the advice, I'm really looking forward to stepping out of dedicated and into colo. I already checked the MB and it will support up to the 2800+ MP's with a bios upgrade.

Any advice on whether or not to purchase spare parts, fans, HD, cpu cooler, etc.

My thoughts were to use the existing scsi drive for the OS, etc. and use an ide drive to perform backups on.

Thanks,
Mac


Last edited by macaroni; 11-22-2003 at 05:04 PM.
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2003, 05:04 PM
RSanders RSanders is offline
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Use retail 2800's. They come with a nice hsf that will fit 2u and up with a copper base. Do NOT use custom hsf, as alot of them are not rated for shipping and will pull off the board, creating a free floating object that can bounce around and take out the rest of the system. If you really really want a custom HSF, make sure its under 300 or so grams and uses all 3 prongs on the clip.

Definatly put backup drives in the machine larger than your primary. In the event of a failure you don't want to rely on the DC for recovery, only bringing the base system online so you can get ot it yourself. Also, an occational off-site backup is not a bad idea too. using the SCSI for the system files, and mounting other drives for storage and another for backup isn't a bad plan either. Most of the higher end systems we build have a dedicated system drive, a array used for storage and user files, and a backup drive. Putting the system on a seperate drive, one makes recovering from a failure easier, and two helps with load.

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  #5  
Old 11-22-2003, 05:45 PM
macaroni macaroni is offline
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The heatsink info was good, never thought about it that way. Was actually looking a heavy duty vantec, but will probably re-think that now. I've built plenty of systems for people(desktop) and have had that heppen once when I shipped a PC to my uncle. Truly thanks for all the help here. A couple more questions based on your responses...

it sounds like what you're suggesting might be a good config would be for me to purchase a second scsi drive to add to the mix of what the server came with. I would then use one SCSI for the OS and another to store my actual site(php) and DB(mysql). I can certainly see the benefit in this as if I lose one drive, I only in a sense have to replicate one thing, either the web stuff or reinstall the os. One question, from research, I certainly want the DB and site itself to be on scsi, but will it make a performance difference to have the system side on ide vs. scsi?

If I had my choice, I'd do a scsi 0+1, but that's a little cost prohibitive as I run a non-profit site with no ads through donations.

It's cool how this has all progressed for me, virtual hosting, VPS, then dedicated managed, then dedicated self-managed, now taking that last step.

thanks again,
Mac

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  #6  
Old 11-22-2003, 09:50 PM
Kyle_tx Kyle_tx is offline
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I was told in the Server Matrix forums that they don't rackmount anything. They will just stand your rackmount server on its side on a shelf. So.. you will definitly not need any rails..


Last edited by Kyle_tx; 11-22-2003 at 11:48 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-22-2003, 10:37 PM
RSanders RSanders is offline
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I really doubt you will see any benifiet from scsi. Modern performance EIDE's (7200, blah blah) are quite the performers. If you have scsi great, if not then I wouldnt put the money into it unless you know your running an extremly intensive site. Also, life expectancy of scsi is much longer, but were talking years not months

Usually, the storage is done on IDE because of space/cost factors, where a small scsi can house the system and logs. The exceptions are with extreemly intensive sites and services. You might be surprized the performance of IDE drives.

But, you need to determine that now, and not a month after the machine is in the datacenter.

Also, the server matrix shelf thing doesnt surprize me. Reminds me of RackShack LOL

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  #8  
Old 11-22-2003, 11:49 PM
rusko rusko is offline
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wow, i must have been stupid to use scsi in all of our machines. thank you for enlightening me. </sarcasm>

scsi is the way to go, especially if you do a lot of OLTP. granted, if you have a small site, it is not necessary. however, if you are doing a dual amd box, the site cant be that small =]

paul


Quote:
Originally posted by rsanders
I really doubt you will see any benifiet from scsi. Modern performance EIDE's (7200, blah blah) are quite the performers. If you have scsi great, if not then I wouldnt put the money into it unless you know your running an extremly intensive site. Also, life expectancy of scsi is much longer, but were talking years not months

Usually, the storage is done on IDE because of space/cost factors, where a small scsi can house the system and logs. The exceptions are with extreemly intensive sites and services. You might be surprized the performance of IDE drives.

But, you need to determine that now, and not a month after the machine is in the datacenter.

Also, the server matrix shelf thing doesnt surprize me. Reminds me of RackShack LOL

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  #9  
Old 11-23-2003, 12:13 AM
macaroni macaroni is offline
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Yeah it is somewhat intensive, especially on the DB side of things. I use about 35-40 gigs of bandwidth a month and my current server cpu stays pegged through the heavy usage parts of the weekdays... you know while everyone is at work browsing the internet :-) Of course my current server is a celeron 1.7 with 512MB. I won't be doing another celly for sure for anything with a DB backend, doesn't handle a lot of DB stuff very well. The site can slow down quite a bit in peak times at the moment.

I'm probably overboard with what I'm putting together, but I'm trying to think ahead so that I can ride on this next server for a while. If I ever need to go beefier, I'd probably setup a backend network and colocate another box with no bandwidth as just a DB server(probably this box actually and ad another for the web side). Not to mention, the AMD server I got was"the right price" or at least I thought. To build it myself would have cost much more.

So, let's say I put in a 9GB SCSi for the system and roll with the 18GB SCSI for the db and site. What is the best scenario for backup and restore with linux? If I'm doing fullbackups nightly or weekly to an IDE, I guess I'd need a backup drive on site that could be popped in to do a restore to... just thinking out loud...

-Mac

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  #10  
Old 11-23-2003, 01:10 AM
RSanders RSanders is offline
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Quote:
wow, i must have been stupid to use scsi in all of our machines.
Can't argue with that. Being we have about 100 servers with EIDE drives, when you factor in the cost in drive alone, you would have to be retard to use scsi in every system.

Currently, we have machines that 95th at 65Mbps and peak in the 80's, there powered by EIDE drives.

BUT, database intensive applications _can_ require scsi, but were talking high end here. One of my clients that we considered scsi for is doing online billing, and has thousands of concurrent users, with peaks in the ten's of thousands. Currently, the database is powered by an EIDE array on a 3ware controller, and working well. But, scsi would be ideal in his situation.

If your not worried about the costs, throw a 36gig scsi drive and a 80-120 EIDE backup in it. 18 gig if you know your never going to have a large site, or even use yet another EIDE mounted for storage only.

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