Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Running a Web Hosting Business : Getting your server pulled

[barry[CoffeeSprout]]

http://forums.servermatrix.com/viewtopic.html?t=1066

In no way trying to flame SM btw, just an example.

If a customer puts material on your servers that is considered infringing by somebody, can they have your entire server just pulled without warning you first?

It seems to me that the copyright holder should contact the host first and not the provider, this case made a lot of colleteral damage (other customers on that box got knocked offline)

Now I don't question the need for a provider to co-operate (otherwise they will be held liable too) but isn't it possible to give the host a chance to remove the data first?

Anybody ever experienced this and is there a good way to deal with this?

Just wondering in case something like this happens to me

[sprintserve]

This was discussed here: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=204962

[barry[CoffeeSprout]]

Ah ok, thank you for this link.
Im not discussing this single case, but more the general idea of what you can do.

What your rights are as a provider in this case.

[eddy2099]

You are responsible for the contents on your server. So that means that if you do not want to land in hot soup, you got to be proactive in some way by ensuring illegal contents are not available on your site.

[VH-Robert]

Originally posted by eddy2099
You are responsible for the contents on your server. So that means that if you do not want to land in hot soup, you got to be proactive in some way by ensuring illegal contents are not available on your site.

I agree. But you can't monitor EVERY file that is uploaded. So someone uploaded something illegal an SM has pulled it. They SHOULD have pulled the server, spoken to the owner, explained the situation and demanded the account in question be SUSPENDED until futher notice *OR* the owner could have at least a chance to backup the site in question, terminate the account and send SM the zip file with the illegal contents for evidence.

[Incognito]

So, I will confine my comments to general. If a law enforcement agent, either directly or through a court order on the part of a third party, requires me to pull servers I will. I will do whatever they require. That includes leaving accounts of terrorists or other criminals active so they can monitor or shutting down accounts or servers.

Any communication on the subject would be private, not public, and would be only to the offending customer and only to the extent law enforcement allowed.

Outside of that, I will terminate immediately customers or clients of customers who are obviously, knowingly violating laws including copyright. Example: Someone has copies of Microsoft Office available by FTP. If the server owner is involved in this illegal activity, he will be immediately terminated, including all his servers-example, I find heis the owner of the offending sites. I will make arrangements for the innocent customers of the offending party to get their files, unless restricted in some fashion by law enforcement.

If a customer/reseller/dedicated customer fails to take appropriate action when I report illegality or terms violations, he will be terminated. Furthermore, even if he does take action, but the problems persist and it becomes clear that he is a harbinger for such and actively involved in that community, he will be terminated.

Would he be notified. Yes...unless restricted by law enforcement. If he threated lawyer all non-lawyer communication would cease.

I work every way possible with upstanding customers. However, I have low tolerance with those who want to live on the dark side.

[barry[CoffeeSprout]]

Originally posted by eddy2099
You are responsible for the contents on your server. So that means that if you do not want to land in hot soup, you got to be proactive in some way by ensuring illegal contents are not available on your site.

If only it was that easy huh?
But seriously, I think the webhost should at least be given a chance to rectify the situation unless their upstream provider was not given a choice. (as in this case)

[aingaran]

I have a question.

For example, you're the landlord of an appartment building. A tenant is running a crackhouse from his appartment. So, the law shuts down the entire building and all other tenants are left out in the cold. (That's basically the situation.)

There are a couple of variables, obviously. IE, did the landlord knowingly let whatever was going on, go on?

Or was this occuring without the knowledge of the landlord. (Obviously, since it's a server you have to monitor it like a hawk, but there are some bad apples that get away, right under your nose.)

[Incognito]

Originally posted by Golthar
If only it was that easy huh?
But seriously, I think the webhost should at least be given a chance to rectify the situation unless their upstream provider was not given a choice. (as in this case)

A chance the first time....but at some point, no more chances. Also, depends on whether the host is actually involved in what is going on too. The worst case I have encountered was a reseller host and the account in question was owned by him (per whois). He had only set up seven domains at that point and after the problem, I looked at them and 5 were violating one or more sections of the TOS/AUP. This was a no warning, but an email, your account has been terminated. Of course, he wasn't surprised, didn't complain, didn't even ask for his files. I followed him for about three months after. He was, over the three months, located at a totla of 6 different hosts.

[Incognito]

Originally posted by aingaran
I have a question.

For example, you're the landlord of an appartment building. A tenant is running a crackhouse from his appartment. So, the law shuts down the entire building and all other tenants are left out in the cold. (That's basically the situation.)

There are a couple of variables, obviously. IE, did the landlord knowingly let whatever was going on, go on?

Or was this occuring without the knowledge of the landlord. (Obviously, since it's a server you have to monitor it like a hawk, but there are some bad apples that get away, right under your nose.)

Two possibilities here.

First, if the landlord had knowledge of the activity, then he can clearly have the action taken against him. Furthermore, it can become a very serious matter under the RICO act where he can be considered part of the "racketeering"- the conspiracy to sell crack.

Second, some cities have passed laws which allow them to take properties which are used for crime. One city I am aware of had a law that said if three felony convictions were obtained on activities taking place in the building, then the city could take the property. This was the single most instrumental law in reducing the level of prostitution in that city.

[barry[CoffeeSprout]]

Yeah, I supose all you can do is constantly monitor what people are up to.
But still I think the current state of afairs leaves the copyright owner with way too much clout, being able to demand instant C&D without giving time for the other side to investigate first.

By the DMCA a provider has no choice but to shut you down or else they get trapped into this as well

[eddy2099]

Originally posted by Golthar
If only it was that easy huh?
But seriously, I think the webhost should at least be given a chance to rectify the situation unless their upstream provider was not given a choice. (as in this case)

Well, it might not be easy but it is your responsibility. Besides with modern tools available and if you play your cards right, it should not be too difficult to detetermine unusual activities. It is all about good housekeeping.

First, it goes into checking your clients before you set them up, ie, their name, their domain name.. If they are hosted elsewhere and when they sign up, you could always check their site to see what they are hosting. Sometimes the domain name might give you a clue.. If it is called 'warezheaven.com' or something to that nature, you could reject it right away.

Secondly, you could always check bandwidth usual, if a host is persistently using more traffic than others, you could visit their website and check if there is anything funny.

Thirdly, the log files is infront of you, you could always load it up in PICO or something and do a Ctrl-W to do a Search for certain keywords.

Forthly, you could always use 'whereis *.mp3' or something to that nature to scan for various files on your server.

All of which should not take you more than 10 minutes if you are willing to check. Of course, it might not be full-proof but at least it should weed out a number of illegal activities on your server.