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  1. #1
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    School kids undressing recorded on security cameras

    This is too weird ...


    http://www.realnews247.com/parents_s...en_cameras.htm

    Parents Sue School Over Hidden Cameras

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. - A Tennessee middle school allowed security cameras to film children undressing in locker rooms and then stored the images on a computer accessible through the Internet, according to a lawsuit filed by a group of angry parents.


    Another report...

    http://www.tennessean.com/local/arch...35666846.shtml

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  3. #3
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    Wow. At what point did these people not realise that's a very stupid thing to do? Why would you even think of putting cameras in a room where young kids are getting changed.

    I hope someone gets nailed for that.
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  4. #4
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    the worst bit.. the assistant principla who had the images on his HD, only got transferred

  5. #5
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    I think I can somewhat understand the motivation behind installing security cameras, though it could easily be construed as not right by many. The thing with education is, you're pretty much damned if you do, and damned if you don't. What I mean is that if anything happened in those locker rooms, (such as a student getting attacked by another student, etc.), the school system would have been sued for lack of security and monitoring.

    Working with children presents some interesting challenges, especially for male teachers. Back in the day, the teachers could tap students with rulers, but don't even think of trying that today. Also, don't hug kids, touch them in any way, etc. Show them you care in a nurturing way, but not too much as then you're a child molester. There was a good article abot male teachers in the lastest NEA mag.

    Like I said, while it could easily be construed that this type of monitoing is a bad thing, it's equally true that a lack of monitoring would have generated a lawsuit. The computer wasn't secured, and that was a major blunder. Aside forn that, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
    Originally posted by DaZ
    the worst bit.. the assistant principla who had the images on his HD, only got transferred
    Again, this is because it is extremely difficult to get rid of anyone in education. All this person wold have to do is claim the principal knew and file a wrongful termination suit. You can't even fire janitors who sleep on the job. It's ridiculous in many ways.
    Last edited by Chicken; 10-16-2003 at 05:51 AM.
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  6. #6
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    This was a fair while ago, July 1...

    Chalos said he doesn't know if the cameras are still operating.
    They find this is happening and they still haven't removed the cameras

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by Chicken
    The thing with education is, you're pretty much damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
    Agreed, but:

    Video cameras trained on young children changing their clothes.

    I can understand a camera outside the changing room to monitor who comes in and out, but that's just passing the point of providing security, to downright invasion of privacy.
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  8. #8
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    I know a few stores put cameras in their restrooms (the multi-stall ones), but not sure if they can see much...
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  9. #9
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    Originally posted by Chicken
    Again, this is because it is extremely difficult to get rid of anyone in education. All this person wold have to do is claim the principal knew and file a wrongful termination suit. You can't even fire janitors who sleep on the job. It's ridiculous in many ways.
    It's the same here in MA, the teachers union has a deathgrip on the education system, no wonder it sucks so bad, they aren't there to educate, but to protect jobs at any cost.

    Anyways, they should fire everyone involved. If they get any money for this from the school system itself, that $4.2 million or whatever will come from local taxpayers, directly or indirectly. They're suing their neighbors for the educators stupidity.

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  11. #11
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    UN-REAL.........WHAT NEXT??????

    The Dude

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by The Dude_
    UN-REAL.........WHAT NEXT??????

    The Dude

    Daily cavity checks for all teachers in that school.

    Let's see how they like it.
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  13. #13
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    Yeah and the HDD was accessed 97+ times from the outside world over the internet from different states...or so foxnews last night reported with the Attorney for the parents. Now doesnt this contrue Child pornography and isnt that a federal crime... so how can the teachers union do a damn thing about that? crime is crime, no matter what it is no one should be able to stop the prosecution or investigation of any crime........let alone one involving children!

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by NewtSys
    Yeah and the HDD was accessed 97+ times from the outside world over the internet from different states...or so foxnews last night reported with the Attorney for the parents. Now doesnt this contrue Child pornography and isnt that a federal crime... so how can the teachers union do a damn thing about that? crime is crime, no matter what it is no one should be able to stop the prosecution or investigation of any crime........let alone one involving children!
    Somehow I doubt they were actually filming the toilet areas, they were probably filming the common areas looking for smoking or something, but I could be wrong, in that case, it might likely be considered child expolitation.

    As for the union comment, that's completely out of context, which seems all to common here, no one said anything about the teacher's union having anything to do with stopping or preventing this crime.

  15. #15
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    outrageous the principal should be sacked he is ultimately responsible...

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by MDJ2000
    Somehow I doubt they were actually filming the toilet areas, they were probably filming the common areas looking for smoking or something, but I could be wrong, in that case, it might likely be considered child expolitation.

    As for the union comment, that's completely out of context, which seems all to common here, no one said anything about the teacher's union having anything to do with stopping or preventing this crime.
    funny the article says "caught while undressing" that doesnt seem like a "common area" to me.

  17. #17
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    I know there was a lot of cry about invasion of privacy from the public in London when the cops had installed street survey cameras to prevent crimes.

    THis is a glaring mistake by the school authorities especially when they have taken such decision to install the cameras in the changing rooms without consent of the parents or appropriate authorities like the police.

  18. #18
    what bothers me is...

    A Tennessee middle school allowed security cameras to film children undressing in locker rooms and then stored the images on a computer accessible through the Internet.

  19. #19
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    Jon.. tis very bothering, i agree

  20. #20
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    I remember back when I was in highschool in Illinois they were trying to put cameras in our locker room due to the large gang activity and drugs. However the difference was you were aware the cameras would have been there, they decided to overrule it to the outside of the lockerrooms instead just to see who was going in there and had a gym teacher or 2 in the locker room and kept it locked after everyone was dressed and unlocked it when someone had to use the restroom. Now with this school why would you need cameras especially for kids that young? Even then the kids were never aware of the cameras and that is invasion of privacy.
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  21. #21
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    3 things:
    1. WTF were the company thinking when they installed the camers? Some kid is going to break into everyone's gym lockers and steal gym cloth?
    2. WTF were the school thinking when they installed the camera and not change the default password?
    3. Who the @#$% would want to access those images? ... at those hours...

  22. #22
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    It's not like the kids were naked were they? So I doubt this would really be considered child porn unless the kids were doing something or there were shower rooms.
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  23. #23
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    Originally posted by NationHosts
    It's not like the kids were naked were they? So I doubt this would really be considered child porn unless the kids were doing something or there were shower rooms.
    They were getting changed and IMO thats bad enuogh and deserves prosecution

    think about it, what would you say if this was your children in this problem?

    NOTE: im not getting angry over this, i just feel its wrong

  24. #24
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    I think the security system was probably installed for a number of reasons, not least the major push from PTA's and major celebrities, to stamp down on bullying, as the suicide rate amongst young teens is rising yearly, and most of the time, the reasons behind it are bullying.

    Again, bullies will target areas that are known to be lapse, security wise.

    I think the whole thing is blown out of proportion, with the exception of storing the data on the principles hard drive, when it could be accessed from the outside world.
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  25. #25
    Originally posted by DaZ
    They were getting changed and IMO thats bad enuogh and deserves prosecution

    think about it, what would you say if this was your children in this problem?

    NOTE: im not getting angry over this, i just feel its wrong
    To defend him, I'm pretty sure he wasn't condoning it. Just stating, unfortunately probably correctly, that it wouldn't be child porn because of the lack of nudity and/or suggestive material.

    Either way, people should be fired over this.
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  26. #26
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    Originally posted by MDJ2000
    It's the same here in MA, the teachers union has a deathgrip on the education system, no wonder it sucks so bad, they aren't there to educate, but to protect jobs at any cost.
    Well, I can see how people might see it that way, but you do have to understand that working with children (especially as a male teacher), presents some interesting difficulties.

    Just to explain this a bit, a few years ago one of my best 3rd grade students (behavior, grades, etc.) got one wrong on a spelling test. She was the perfectionist type and her solution to that problem was to try to get me fired. I caught the plan early and addressed it, but it could have been ugly.

    Now she didn't do this, but if she had gone home and told her mother that I touched her, you can bet I'd have some splain' to do and my job would be on the line, not to mention that I'd never work in the district again, nor in education, not to mention that I might be arrested, etc. If you think or salaries can support a lengthy drawn-out court battle over something like this, you haven't looked at the salary schedules for teachers.

    Although this could be a perverted vice-principal peeping on middle school girls in a locker room, my guess is that the intentions were probably good (monitoring students), but the execution of this plan were horribly flawed.

    I also think many of you have a misconception of what "middle school girls" are like in some areas. They are minors, however many of them are not small children. You know those stories about 12 year olds bringing weapons to school that you hear on the news? Those are only the stories you hear about. Many "minors" are defined as minors based on an arbitrary number (18).

    Ohhh, and another short story involving that same excellent 3rd grade student. In the middle of a language arts lesson, I caught her and another girl student talking. When asked if they wanted to share the discussion with the class, one of the girls replied, "She was telling me that you had a big dick." never again will I ever ask a student to "share" their conversation with the class. I can't tell you how unsettling it is to have a 7 year old tell you that in front of a class of other 7 year olds at 9 a.m.

    My point in all of this is merely to explain that I can understand that middle school children need to be monitored these days, especially in sensitive areas such as dressing rooms where all sorts of unimaginable things could take place. Having a human monitor might have generated the same lawsuits and cries about invasion of privacy.

    How would I feel as a parent? Horrible. Sick. Disgusted. Outraged. At the same time, I'd pretty pretty streamed if my daughter was attacked in a locker room. It wouldn't happen? Well, another case we had at the elementary school I work at was a boy walking into the girl's bathroom and exposing himself to the girls in there. Bathrooms are galley style, you can see into the bathroom from the playground (not the stalls obviously). He was caught, sent to juv detention. Others have suffered the same fate for bringing weapons (knives, etc.) into the girl's room. Was the motivation to stab or kill another student? I can't recall, bt I can assure you that we don't take any chances and call the police to deal with the issue.

    Again, these events happened at an elementary school. Our kids are sexual and often violent, and often, this sort of thing isn't what people picture when they think of elementary or middle school KIDS. It happens... trust me.
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  27. #27
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    Well, if I had a son or daughter I know this, I wouldn't know what would make me enraged more, the fact that the schools security was leaked and hundreds to thousands of people were looking at my kid, or the fact that there was no protection and my kid were getting beat up everyday, guess you really have to look at it in sense, but yeah someone is at fault here and this should not go overlooked.
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  28. #28
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    Originally posted by NationHosts
    Well, if I had a son or daughter I know this, I wouldn't know what would make me enraged more, the fact that the schools security was leaked and hundreds to thousands of people were looking at my kid...
    According to the article:
    The images were reportedly accessed 98 times between July 2002 and January 2003
    Now I'm not saying that 98 times is somethign to ignore (not at all, not by any means), but 98 is a bit lower than, "hundreds of thousands".
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  29. #29
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    Originally posted by Chicken
    According to the article:

    Now I'm not saying that 98 times is somethign to ignore (not at all, not by any means), but 98 is a bit lower than, "hundreds of thousands".

    He said hundreds to thousands.

    ... Ah, nothing like correcting Chicken to make your day.
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  30. #30
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    Yeah, but whether it's thousands or under a hundred.. it's still pretty disturbing.. I just don't understand how parents from the other school would have found out that the images were stored on a specific computer, let alone how many times they were accessed.

    And it seems odd that of 16 cameras spread between 7 schools (unless I read it wrong,) one would have made it in to their visitors locker room. It just seems sort of odd. Why would they need to see what visiting teams are doing? There is *usually* a coach with visiting teams in their locker rooms at least once or twice while the kids are in there. They use the locker room to go over plays and do lil pep talks and whatnot.

    Who knows, the whole thing is just bizarre.. and I'm sure someone will end up paying.

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    Gotta love "rounding up" .
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    Originally posted by webworkz
    He said hundreds to thousands.

    ... Ah, nothing like correcting Chicken to make your day.
    hundreds is still more than 98

  33. #33
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    It was a typo... an... y... way...
    Originally posted by BowlingShoe
    hundreds is still more than 98
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