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  1. #26
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    Mar 2003
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    Originally posted by Hiccups
    What is a white guy who has beat up a few people?

    Just curious...

    LAPD
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  2. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Connecticut
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    ahhh use paragraphs!
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  3. #28
    Originally posted by blue27
    Your lucky your not 21. If you were carrying a conceled there is a pretty good chance that instead of sitting at home typing away on your computer you would either be dead or you would facing some pretty serious charges. Bernard Goetz was a fluke. The police don't look kindly on vigilante justice.
    Would that be worth it for a wallet?
    A couple of things:

    1. In every state where concealed carry is allowed crime rates go down. 32 states have passed conceal carry laws and the national crime rate has gone down.

    2. The point was not over a wallet, it was someone taking something that wasn't theirs from me at gun point.

    3. I could have been dead if I didn't have a gun, next time I'd rather make it an even chance.

    4. Going to jail for shooting someone that is robbing you at gun point, have you ever read any law books or seen any criminal cases? The reason they do have conceal carry permits is so you can protect yourself.
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  4. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
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    553

    Re: My night (Not for the faint of heart)

    Originally posted by dk2
    If you guys can beat this night then please put your story here.
    This one time at band camp......... never mind.
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  5. #30
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Australia
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    765
    lol.. PErsonally id cancel the Cards.. even if it does trace him, you still lose the money
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  6. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Jersey
    Posts
    911
    No not if you report it stolen, a lot of banks have a procedure now where instead of cancel them they wait for them to be used and then trace it. they not only do this to catch the robber but also to make sure its not fraud!
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  7. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
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    This is the exact reason I encourage people who travel, to get their concealed weapons permit. Especially if there is a chance you could end up in a bad side of town.

    Like my AMEX, My Glock and my CWP, I never leave home without it.

    Sirius


    Originally posted by dk2
    A couple of things:

    1. In every state where concealed carry is allowed crime rates go down. 32 states have passed conceal carry laws and the national crime rate has gone down.

    2. The point was not over a wallet, it was someone taking something that wasn't theirs from me at gun point.

    3. I could have been dead if I didn't have a gun, next time I'd rather make it an even chance.

    4. Going to jail for shooting someone that is robbing you at gun point, have you ever read any law books or seen any criminal cases? The reason they do have conceal carry permits is so you can protect yourself.
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  8. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    California, USA
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    582

    Post Paragraph version

    This is the original story with proper grammar, spelling, and use of paragraphs. No offense is intended to the author as I wouldn't be able to type after this incident happened to me either .

    ------------------------------BEGIN---------------------------------------
    Well here goes my night; I have been up for over 36 hours. I was at my girl friendss house watching movies with her when I decided I needed to go home and get some sleep. On my drive home (BTW I live in St. Louis) I got a huge stomache cramp, and I needed to use the bathroom now!

    So I got off of 55 (the highway). I'm driving along in a bad part of St. Louis passing closed gas stations while biting my lip to try to ease the pain. I see a gas station sign in the distance (Thank God). As I come up to the gas station I see it's one of those small ones with no bathroom. I keep driving and I get to a quicktrip. I get out of my car and there are two cops and they look at me and say, "What the hell are you doing here, are you stupid?" I take a quick look around and notice I'm the only white person there and I'm getting all sorts of looks. As I'm walking in some black women start yelling, "Ooh come here baby and gimmie some cream." I just duck my head and go inside to find my salvation, the restroom.

    I open to door to the restroom and what I see inside makes me want to cry. This was probably the nastiest rest room I have ever seen . I have traveled a lot and I have seen some nasty rest rooms, but I stood there in disbelief, I felt dirty just standing on the floor. It didn't matter, my eyes were almost welled up with tears I had to go so bad. I came in and put the toilet seat down, and just with my luck someone decided to piss and crap all over it. I quickly wipe it down trying not to make any sudden movements that might make me crap my pants. Luckily they had some of those toilet seat paper covers. I have never used one of these in my life, but just the sight of this bathroom wanted to make me cry. I get the cover put on and I start to fidget with my belt. If I don't get my belt off in 2 nanoseconds I won't have to worry about flushing the toilet. I get my belt off, bent over and I was in paradise!

    I'm done doing my duty and I'm about to reach over to grab some toilet paper when I noticed it's all wrinkled up (like when you get it wet). Just my luck, some drunken hobo had pissed on the toilet paper. So with my Boy Scout instincts I start using the toilet seat covers as TP. I flush twice and walk out. As I'm walking to my car, 3 people surround me. "Man, give us some money!" I was told, he was trying to be intimidating (note: I have had this happen a couple of times, it doesn't intimidate me anymore). I tell them no and get in my car as they call me various racial slurs.

    I'm driving again trying to find a ramp for 55 north (I know there is one way up but I'm trying to find a short cut). I make a left onto a road in a very, very bad neighborhood (I know there is a 55 S ramp off this road). I'm driving with my windows down (I always do) I hear some words from a group of black guys yelling at me from the street. I stop at a stop sign. As soon as I stop a black guy runs up to my car and tries to open the door, it's locked so he reaches his hand into my car to try and unlock the door while screaming "get out of the ****ing car!" I stomp on the gas as hard as I can spinning my would be robber and knocking his ass on the ground. I drive away (no point in calling the police as they will never find him).

    I'm on my way back home and a little shook up when what happeneds? BAM! Flat Tire! So I get off at an exit (I'm on 64 E now) for a city called Washington Park. Let me describe Washington Park for you. It's a town thats 99.99% black, it's main businesses are 5 strip clubs, 2 gas stations and a drive through liqour store. I have driven through there before (day and night) and it's pretty bad when you see pregnant women walking down the street drinking a 40. Basically this city would make Gansters from compton shake in their boots (ohh ya it also has the highest crime rate per capita then any other town/city.)

    I get out and start changing my tire all the while getting looks from various people. When what happeneds? A black guy around 6 feet 160 lbs. comes up to me with a gun and says, "Gimmie your wallet." So I proceed to do so (Jokes on him I have one of those wallets with the money clip and I make sure to unlatch it so all the money falls in my pocket before I take it out). He quickly throws the wallet into his pocket and says, "Give me your watch".

    Let me explain something, my watch was a gift from my father ($280 Bolova watch), I plan on passing this watch down to my son, I would rather die then give this watch up. I told him I couldn't do that and he starts screaming "I'll ****ing shoot you <explicit>", I was calm and told him I had guns pointed at me before and it didn't scare me much. I told him to do what he had to do. He gets pissed off and instead of shooting me he decides to just make off with the wallet (Thank God).

    I call the police, file a reports and they help me finish changing my tire. I finally got home and I still haven't stopped shaking.

    If you guys can beat this night then please put your story here.
    -------------------------------END----------------------------------------

    Again, this is the original story with proper grammar, spelling, and use of paragraphs. No offense is intended to the author as I wouldn't be able to type after this incident happened to me either .
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  9. #34
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Florida Panhandle
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    hmm I can't say I've been in a worst bathroom then that, well when I first moved to FL in kentucky the gasstation bathroom was really bad! all the urinals had "sp*rm" in them (I'M NOT LYEING) smelled like rotten tuna and eggs ugh). The other ones had crap all over the seats and actually on the walls, the mirror and the sink, god what pigs these people were. I couldn't tell either if there was a overflow of a toilet or it was actually urine on the ground because there was so much (urine or toilet overflow) water on the floor looked like a mini mississippi river. just disguisting.
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  10. #35
    Originally posted by Hiccups
    What is a white guy who has beat up a few people?

    Just curious...
    Hoodlum.
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  11. #36
    Originally posted by sirius
    This is the exact reason I encourage people who travel, to get their concealed weapons permit. Especially if there is a chance you could end up in a bad side of town.

    Like my AMEX, My Glock and my CWP, I never leave home without it.

    Sirius
    You should get yourself one of those old colt 45s they gave to officers and piolets back in WWII. It's a nice weapon.
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  12. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    California, USA
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    My personal favorite weapon that I conceal is a MAS mle. 1950. If it isn't french, it ain't a gun!

    http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg88-e.htm
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  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Montréal, Québec, Canada
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    1,428
    Wow...pussy guns.

    You need one of these:
    http://www.bloodimage.com/bigpistol.jpg
    Can you be scared half to death twice?
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  14. #39
    Originally posted by etogre
    My personal favorite weapon that I conceal is a MAS mle. 1950. If it isn't french, it ain't a gun!

    http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg88-e.htm
    Ya I had a chance to buy one of those french guns. Never used and only dropped once

    I included one of my guns
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails ross8.jpg  
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  15. #40
    Wow man, thats one scary night! I'm glad I live over here where a 'gangster' is just a black guy who has beat up a few people.


    I'm glad I live over here where a 'moron' is just a person who has this kind of racist mentality.

    --I sincerely hope that it's your neighborhood that's ass-backwards and stuck in a time warp, and that you yourself don't truly believe that load of crap.
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  16. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    217
    #1) Glad you are alright.

    #2) I think you would have been able to properly convey your story without referring to your 'attackers' as "black..." That is one thing that irritates me. Unless you are filing a police report where descriptions are obviously relevant, there is no further need to list such specifics. While you may not have any ill intents yourself, it simply opens the flood gates to other comments. Such as several follow-up comments that have appeared on this thread.

    #3) What would you have done if you had CCW in the initial two situations? You do realize that having a CCW is not about whipping out your gun and using it as a get out of a jam free tool, right? That applies here in the Peoples Republic of California just as it applies in more conservative (gun law) states such as Texas, Arizona or Vermont.

    I'm not sure if you have a membership with any type of roadside assistance service but something you will learn as you grow wiser, always maintain situational awareness. I have had three flat tire incidents over the last two months between two cars. AAA was called for two of the three incidents. All three were with my girlfriend:

    The first was in the parking lot of The Grove Los Angeles, it's a pretty upperclass outdoor mall. It was in my CR-V, but I was transporting some stuff earlier in the week and didn't put my tools back in, so we had to call AAA. I was not armed in this instance, but had I of had my tools I would of had no problem changing the tire.

    The second was directly outside of a block long apartment complex that caters to Section 8 (a housing assistance program for poor/lower income) tenants, which usually means a large body of juveniles & young adults who have been in and out of detention centers, jails & prisons because mommy and/or daddy could not or did not raise them properly. There was maybe 12 males & females outside ranging from 12 to 25. The jeans and white t-shirt crowd.

    We were in my girlfriends POV this time, she drives a police package ford tarus. I was driving, once I noticed the flat I pulled in front of the complex, killed the lights out of courtesy to the ppl out front since they are bright and it was at 9PM and left the utility lights on with emergancy lights flashing. They all vanished for about 2 minutes thinking we were either there to hook 'em up or perform a drive-by. After they all came back, two females purposely walked by to scout us out and they went back and told two other males what they had saw. They all stayed posted on the steps of the complex and watched us for the next 45 minutes. My situational awareness kicked in this time and AAA was called even though I am more than capable of changing a tire myself and had the proper tools this time to do so. I was armed but elected not to subject myself to a situation where relying on that fact could possibly come into play. Not because I was not confident of my abilities, but because it is absolutely stupid to escalate a situation by giving a possible attacker a target and then having to use deadly force. Here in the PRK, you could honestly be put on trial and have a lawyer argue on behalf of the victims' family that you provoked him by pulling your gun after he was attacking you. In this instance, I even removed my gun from my person when I stepped outside of the car when AAA arrived. I was carrying concealed and was not printing, but even then I still did not want it to be there, but kept it in close vicinity to the rear door of the car where we were at.

    Most violent criminals or criminals who portray themself as a violent criminal are nothing more than an opportunist. Meaning they are looking for moments of opportunity rather than being proactive and bullying anything that breaths. If you have beyond average situational awareness & common sense then you should be more than capable of IDing moments such as when to intervene, when to subject yourself to a situation, when to do this, when to do that, when not to do this etc. If you find yourself in a dicey situation, if you don't give those involved an opportunity then it is safe to say you will go home everynight, unless you are dealing with an adrenaline junky who just lives for the life of crime.

    Me and my girlfriend were more than content with sitting in the car and just waiting for AAA. She did not bother to ask why I didn't change her tire myself or anything of that nature. I trust if it were her by herself, she would have done the same thing. Also take into consideration that she would also be armed if traveling by herself, but when we are together she doesn't like to as she considers it to add too much bulky (I don't like her mindset when it comes to that, but I accept it).

    The last instance was 2 nights ago. Her rear left tire blew out (oddly enough she had 4 brand new tires put on earlier that day, this one wasn't pressured properly) in front of my house. I live in one of those neighborhoods where my street for about 3 blocks distance is pleasant, calm, peaceful and expensive to live in. But when you go over to the next 3 streets and its like the projects, then you go over for 3 more streets and its back to pleasantville and it keeps on alternating. I elected to change her tire myself this time. Halfway through getting the spare, jack and tire iron she said that she wanted to do it herself because she had never changed a tire before and wanted to be confident she could do it if I weren't with her. I argued a bit but agreed eventually. I told her what to do, how to do it and so forth and stepped back and observed. I purposely stepped out of view from any oncoming traffic. During that timeframe, I observed 12 cars go by. 6 were filled with individuals known to me as gang affiliated, 2 of whom stopped/slowed until they saw me. 3 were passerbys, none of whom slowed upon seeing a female changing a tire. The three that surprised me the most though were marked LAPD patrol cars. I have a lot of love for LAPD (a healthy & hearty up yours to the person who made the LAPD comment) due to the fact 3 family members have combined for over 60 years with the department and for the sheer fact that I was born, raised and live in L.A. But all 3 vehicles drove by without slowing down to offer any assistance. They were not enroute to any calls as I am very familiar with their protocol as I am with other sister/bordering agencies. I was armed in this instance and had more confidence in being able to justify a situation of using it if need be.

    The point of this long drawn out post is that the simple fact of legally being in possession of a weapon does not justify proper cause for usage while you are out in about and come into contact with harm. When you are legally in possession of a gun in any capacity, either it be as a law enforcement officer, private citizen, security guard or member of the armed forces... you are not only expected to be proficient with that weapon but possess a level of situational awareness, common sense and critical thinking abilities that the common person probably does not possess. I see many people who aren't insane, have proper justification for a CCW and are proficent with their weapons who I do not believe should have one simply because they don't have the ability to be situationally aware or exercise critical thinking abilities. Having a CCW requires much more than proficeny with your gun and justification for the need of a CCW.

    A gun is much like a tool, you need to know when and when not to use it. It's much like a hammer and you will never -- in any normal situation -- use the business end of a hammer to unscrew anything. So, just because you legally own a gun and can legally apply for a CCW based on the minimum requirements, think twice. You can get yourself killed. There was a Florida CCW holder just the other day who was killed at a gas station by an attacker with a gun. Luckily he popped one off, which hit his attacker in the head before being shot himself. The victim is dead, the attacker is critical. Not to armchair quartback the situation, but he may very well be alive today had he of not pulled his gun and simply complied with the attackers demands until finding a moment of opportunity to properly defend himself or be a good witness.

    Police officers are always taught that while you are off-duty, if a situation doesn't immediately warrant deadly force (i.e. rape, shooting, beating etc. in progress), be a good witness. Nothing else. I'm not sure what is taught in all CCW classes, but this same thing I would imagine is taught. If you or anyone else is not in immediate danger, do not act. Be a good witness.

    Credit cards, cars and other materials can be insured thus can be replaced. Your life cannot.

    Stay safe out there and always remember that coming home at the end of the night is always more important than witholding the family jewels from an armed attacker.

    P.S. If you are in a bad neighborhood and have no other means but to change your tire yourself, call the police. Explain the situation and they will come to assist. It may take a while based on how many units are on patrol and how far out they are, but they will come. Call 411, get the # to the local station (do not call 911) and explain the situation: "I have a flat tire, I'm in a bad neighborhood and have valuables in my car and on my person. I am not armed and do not have any type of roadside assistance. I would appreciate it if you could dispatch a patrol unit to my location until I'm able to change my tire and get on my way."
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  17. #42
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    Dec 2002
    Location
    Miami, FL
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    1,487
    Jeff Rambo,

    Interesting.. I'll wait for the cliff notes. lol.
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  18. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    217
    Here are the cliff notes:

    - Glad this guy made it home safely.

    - He needs to lay off detailing the race of the individuals in his experience as it is irrelevant in this setting.

    - A CCW Permit will not be the answer to his problems if it were to happen again if he is not capable of knowning when and when not to take advantage of it, or how to avoid placing himself in such situations in the first place. Situational awareness is key.
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  19. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
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    5,320
    Oh my, I'm glad you weren't hurt, but I would not have stopped if I get a flat tire in tah neighborhood. Better tear your car down in pieces than getting shot in the head.
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  20. #45
    #1 Thank You

    #2 I wasn't robbed by an asian, white, hispanic, native american male. I was robbed by an African American man, simply stated it was part of my story, I told it. I have nothing against Black men as one of my best friends is black.

    #3 Be a good witness? Come on, the guy had a gun and was ready to use it if need be, what more danger can you be in? Next of all the police in this neighborhood don't care, hell after I called it took them 30 minutes to come to my aid.

    In the first situation I agree a gun was not needed, I did the right thing by driving off with him halfway out of my car But in the second case I do believe a gun was needed and I do believe he should be shot next time he does something like that. Who says next time he will be so nice to the person he is robbing?

    Now about AAA. I do have AAA coverage and would be willing to use them. The last time I had a flat tire I was in Omaha it was 1:30 in the morning (I was slightly toasted, yes I know bad on my part), I called AAA only to find their office closed and an answering machine to greet me. Since then I have lost my love for AAA.

    #4 I do not have any respect for police or law enforcement. I do not believe they can adequately defend our population. I think it is my duty to protect myself and my loved ones, no one else.

    The reason I do not have respect for police is stories like the other day with the pizza man. Those cops handcuffed him and with that they sentenced him to death and they should all be hung for it. I'm not saying that they should have let him run around with a bomb on his neck or they should have tried to undo it themself. What they could have done is gone up and told him "Look, I'm going to un-handcuff you. If you try to run we'll shoot you. You have two choices, you can attempt to undo the bomb yourself or you can wait for the bomb squad." Atleast then he would have had a chance, but no the sentenced him to death.
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  21. #46
    Hearing all these stories, I thank god* of the type of city I live in. Wherever you are, people will always help you, that's just the way it is.

    *I am in no way religious.

    BTW, can we please refer to CCW as "packing heat" from now on? It sounds much more exciting.
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  22. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    California, USA
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    Originally posted by PlacidHost

    BTW, can we please refer to CCW as "packing heat" from now on? It sounds much more exciting.
    !
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  23. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    217
    Originally posted by dk2
    #1 Thank You

    #2 I wasn't robbed by an asian, white, hispanic, native american male. I was robbed by an African American man....

    #3 Be a good witness? Come on, the guy had a gun and was ready to use it if need be...

    In the first situation I agree a gun was not needed, I did the right thing by driving off with him....

    Now about AAA. I do have AAA coverage and would be willing to use them. The last time I had a flat tire...

    #4 I do not have any respect for police or law enforcement. I do not believe they can adequately...

    The reason I do not have respect for police is stories like the other day with the pizza man...
    I'm not looking to get into an argument with you or argue your tactics, boss. I was just stating some things that you need to consider and adding a personal opinion in result of a pet peeve (the description bit).

    I agree that the guy who jacked you up for your wallet is an oxygen thief and needs to be deprived of continuing to steal oxygen. I am just very tough on people -- once they are secure and alright of course -- giving oxygen thieves an opportunity. I bet you won't ever pull into that neighborhood to change a tire ever again, right? Lesson learned.

    As far as AAA is concerned, I would write them a letter and ask for your money back. That is unsat and should not be tolerated. I have two roadside services for those moments, one with AAA and one through my T-Mobile account. AAA is the first responder and if something like that were to happen I am not going to worry as I know I have T-Mobile.

    Please do not misinterpet what I am saying. I have no problems with people defending themselves and their loved ones. I support it and encourage it when it is carried out properly & legally. I just look at everything from what I believe to be the proper perspective and will have no hesistance in expressing such. A gun will not always be the answer, as a calm & cool approach can remedy quite a few things if you know how to use such an approach. To reinforce what I mean, let me put it into perspective:

    If someone were to murder my family, I will have no hesitation in shooting to kill or cause injury if the capability to do so were available to me. I will prefer this type of satisfaction.

    If someone were to rob me at gun point, I will have no hesitation in shooting to kill or cause injury if the capability to do so were available to me. I would not prefer this type of satisfaction though. This situation does not exactly warrant such excessive force and I would be much more satisfied with putting the person in jail and letting them beat themselves up for their stupidity.

    Also, you need to take into consideration that as a CCW permit holder, you are not entitled to the same rights as a law enforcement officer (LEO). While some states do not enforce it, the general rule of thumb is that your weapon is to stay concealed until you have intent to use it. So don't say "Well, I wouldn't try to shoot him... I would just try to prevent the problem by flashing my gun or something." That won't fly, boss. As someone with a CCW permit, when you feel the need to unholster your weapon you should have all intentions on using it. Great if you don't need to, but your intentions should be focused on neutralizing the person(s) posing a threat to you or detaining them if the situation warrants it.

    Of the many news articles & stories I have seen where people who held a CCW permit were killed, it was because they used their weapons as means of a bluff or without the capability to put it to use.

    So ask yourself this, if you had a gun on your person when that guy robbed you, would you have pulled it on him? Were you confident he was going to flee after he got what he wanted? Did you think he was going to kill you regardless of you giving him your wallet? If so, why are you here now? I will believe you and back you in your answer as I was not there and you were. But I am simply trying to make sure you are looking at this from the proper perspective.

    I also have another question for you. If you are ever the victim of an attempted robbery by a person not armed with a gun and you are armed with a gun, what would you do?

    No faith in the system? Well, to each his own. I used to have zero patience and would paint many professions with a poor generalized stereo type after one bad experience but then someone much more wiser than I told me that every walk of life is affected by the "Ten Percent Rule." Meaning 10% of a profession will have its idiots, losers, scum, etc. I have come to accept that and it has helped. When I deal with someone who has zero respect for law enforcement yet is dependent on law enforcement, I simply try to change their opinion but if not accept that others have casted a poor image upon the profession and just realize that its not about the glory or appreciation from others because routinely, they aren't the ones who count.
    Last edited by Jeff Rambo; 09-01-2003 at 06:54 PM.
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  24. #49
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Port Arthur, Texas
    Posts
    1,650
    I seem to remember a story where a man was told that he could not carry a gun into a Walmart. He went and put his gun in the car, and the store got robbed while he was still shopping. He was shot to death, after he could've [and most-likely would've] diffused the situation, given that he were allowed to keep possession of his firearm while shopping. This event made Walmart reconsider their entire stance on CCW.


    I think allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms is a good idea, and the screening process is up-to par to be sure that only certain [smart, logical, and trained] people are able to get their CCW.


    It's a very long and difficult process to get a concealed carry license here in Texas. They don't just hand them out like candy on Halloween, and I am sure the same applies in other states.


    Just my .02 cents. A little off-topic, but eh, oh well.
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  25. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    California, USA
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    582
    Justin, you got it wrong, it's packing heat, not CCW!
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