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  1. #1

    The red rose in Quran

    Hi everyone,

    God says in the Quran:

    "When the sky is torn apart, so it was (like) a red rose like ointment. Then which of the favors of your lord will you deny?" Al-Rahman 37-38

    Compare it to the following picture from NASA

    http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap991031.html

    What do you think?

    Best regards,

    Ahmed
    Last edited by nozol; 08-30-2003 at 03:25 PM.
    Ahmed Ghazi
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  2. #2
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    Re: The red rose in Quran

    Originally posted by nozol
    . . . What do you think?
    I think it's a beautiful picture.
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  3. #3
    Thank you so much Aussie Bob for your reply. It is indeed!
    Ahmed Ghazi
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  4. #4
    Here is another picture

    http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/space/09/12/hubble.rose/

    This time NASA calls it Rose nebula
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  5. #5
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    Re: Re: The red rose in Quran

    Originally posted by Aussie Bob
    I think it's a beautiful picture.
    and ofcourse God wouldn't lie
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  6. #6
    Thank you so much feather for your comment. Sure He wouldn't.
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  7. #7
    What I was implying is that the Rose nebula was described in the Quran more than 1400 years ago. So, my point is, who can ever know this scientific peace of information at that time, unless He is The Creator?

    Best regards,

    Ahmed
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  8. #8
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    Nozol,

    Very nice, just like many hundreds/thousands of things we have learnt from the Qu'ran.
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

    "The only way to overcome fear, is to challenge it head on"
    "The quickest way to get over a woman, is to get under another"
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  9. #9
    Thank you so much [eS]s.h.a.z.y for your comment. Sure indeed, I totally agree with you!

    Wish you all the best!

    Ahmed
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  10. #10
    acually , this is not the only thing that quran mentioned and was found to be true years after, no one, and i really no one can say anything about that.
    there is millions of examples for one that i remember is that "sura : alhaded" -

    http://www.submission.org/miracle/iron.html
    so who would have know the atmic number of iron 1400 ?!
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  11. #11
    this is a great resource too http://www.submission.org/miracle/
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  12. #12
    very interesting
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  13. #13
    Nice article creedance thank you so much! I surely agree with you.
    Ahmed Ghazi
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  14. #14
    Thank you so much ElysiumNet for your comment. All the best to you!
    Ahmed Ghazi
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  15. #15
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    nozol,

    Are we at it again? Please leave religion and science alone. What you seeing (you should know that by now) in the picture is an exploding star. That is how an explosion looked when the light reached Earth. I am sure by now there is nothing there other then a white dwarf or whatever formation left after that explosion. There are so many stars in our universe (even a galaxy) that if I tell that you that a dog will appear in the sky 100 years from now I am 150% sure you will see a dog if you look at the right star. In fact, I am certain there are a lot of exploded stars that look like roses. What a coincidence you might say? It's not and I am not surprised a star looks like that, because stars can explode few times (which makes it looks like a rose). If you look at other exploding stars you'll see that they also look like roses, but they are different colors do to their chemical composition.

    http://www.submission.org/miracle/iron.html is a great example of a vague article. It talks about how god created a step by step process of how to create steal, but does the article quotes that part of the Quaran? No. They add arbitrary numbers.

    Through out history numbers and events had a temporary link but it was purely coincidental. Scientists believed they could find more planets in our solar system, because there was a pattern between current found planet. It turned out the pattern was wrong and only worked for the first five or six discovered planets.

    Please don't be so delusional people.

    nozol, that quote is so vague that I just don't understand how you could have came up with this post. Read historical poetry and you can apply this picture to any poem that mentioned sky and rose. Seriously, do you see what you're doing or not?
    Last edited by Shyne; 08-30-2003 at 07:55 PM.
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  16. #16
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    Originally posted by nozol
    Thank you so much feather for your comment. Sure He wouldn't.
    I am muslim there is a reason i dont not post abt islman for example see the above post....anyway i have yet to see anything that goes against islman and what i mean is science to be exact!

    humans were animals say so in Quran mostly ppl think that isnt true how the baby is born exactly tells you step by step

    anyway its all abt personal believes and i dont plan to offend anyone btw you can find examples of planes n boats telephone tv as well in Quran and i mean from Quran!

    funny Quran has the word 'days' 365 times and 'months' 12 times

    anyway all i would say abt islman is mostly ppl have wrong picture

    you can find eye for an eye within Quran everyone notices that but exactly right next to it says 'forgive' twice as many times

    in islam killing a old man a women and children is not allowed atleast not in my regligion dont know abt them{ who ever did what they did on 9/11}
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  17. #17
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    feather,

    There are people who find these kind of things and exaggerate them to the world. People, of cource, will believe these things because they are strange for them. I can take any book and find some kind of link in it to the outside world.

    anyway its all abt personal believes and i dont plan to offend anyone btw you can find examples of planes n boats telephone tv as well in Quran and i mean from Quran!
    Do you have exact quotes? If they are as vague as the ones nozol pointed out, then don't bother posting them.

    ty
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  18. #18
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    there is a reason i never post plus i dont really intend to offend anyone....i am not very regligious but i know some parts of Quran i cant tell you word by word...but if there are couple of things that you find to be true i would still have doubts but if there 1000's of things that are true than its totally some thing else....

    I'll post proberly a link if i find which has Quran translation in eglish of this part but for now its goes like this...

    there comes a day when man will able to fly and stand on water will able communicate directly to each other 1000's of miles away....there will come a time when man will not believe in god but than ask yourself if you can create a bee out of nothing [not clone] which will be able to give birth some thing like this....

    well like i said its all abt personal believes and i believe this to be true some ppl would want to see the word 'plane' right in the Quran i am afraid that isnt the case....

    Science does not go against my religion i have yet find anything that does...in islman earth wasnt in the middle...plus you can find lots of things abt the stars and the universe...

    if some one is interested do let me know and i'll find some good information and if you want to try 'google' i bet your not going to find any positive stuff ...i remember a while ago a research being done that found some 20,000 sites made after 9/11 which are suppose to be by muslims and teach islman and look exactly as if they are copying stuff from the Quran but none is true...plus were not made my muslims... anyhow when i read Quran i learned to be friends with everyone be fair be equal no matter what religion one has...like always there are ppl who abbuse the name 'islam' which is really sad now the whole world has image of us muslims as....
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  19. #19
    shyne if you don't like the post don't bother replying.
    if it was a gay post you would have gave it more respect.

    although Im not with nozol to post about Islam here, not because it's bad, but because ppl like you would most probably jump into the thread and make fun of it, or turn it into a religious debate, which is forbidden in Islam .- i mean to debate over religion.

    i read a lot in the bible, and i found tons of miracles myself , and i respect it a lot, and i found a lot of similarities , but i wouldn't ever debate over anything you would say.

    on the other hand, Im just shocked of how much you "don't" respect other believes and opinions.
    just try to read , and move on my friend, we do that all day, we read about alot of stuff we don't like , but we don't shout every time we do that, .sometimes we smile at hearing or reading those stuff and move on....BECAUSE WE ARE ALL SINNERS, AND EVERYONE OF US HAS HIS OWN FREAKY BELIEVES.


    to you ahmed, please please..............keep religion away from any discussion. if you truly believe in God , then you must know that you will be responsible for the mess.
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  20. #20
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    creedance seriously you took words out of my mouth i was going to pm him n say the same thing...i been here for a long time and respect everyone believes....i have seen so many things here but just turn away simply it will make things worse and the only person who is to be blame is the person who starts it....
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  21. #21
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    if it was a gay post you would have gave it more respect.
    You say it as if "gay" should get less respect. Anyway...

    I am not trying to desrespect nozol just trying to point out that he's wrong and if you agree with him, then you are wrong too. I did not target Islam. I targeted something he called a miracle which it is not. You're only a sinner if you follow religious codes. I don't so I am not a sinner. I don't wish people bad and I don't harm anyone. Sounds like common sense and you don't need religion to follow that obvious moral rule.

    AND EVERYONE OF US HAS HIS OWN FREAKY BELIEVES
    Speak for your self. Brokern mirrors, black cats and walking under a ladder doesn't get my attention or whatever freaky believes you talk about.
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  22. #22
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    feather.

    If you want to post me those links, then please also paste what section of the Quaran it's located in.
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  23. #23
    man..........jeshhh......, i'm not going to ruin my mood with debating with you all around the WHT, you win
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  24. #24
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    Originally posted by feather
    there will come a time when man will not believe in god
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  25. #25
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    feather, that doesn't say anything.

    Non-believers existed for as long as believers. You're saying it like it's a new thing that hasn't happened before.
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  26. #26
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    Shyne, GET OVER IT... There are hundreds and thousands of things in the Qu'ran which scientist/people have only realised 100's of years after.

    Dont deny the truth...

    I wonder why Islam is the quicket growing religion in the world? Oh wait its a concidence.
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

    "The only way to overcome fear, is to challenge it head on"
    "The quickest way to get over a woman, is to get under another"
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  27. #27
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    never did i say it was a new thing..

    Surah 109. The Disbelievers, Atheists
    Say : O ye that reject Faith!
    I worship not that which ye worship,
    Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
    And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
    Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
    To you be your Way, and to me mine


    now thas proberly my last post in this thread you can find the full Quran translation on the internet i am not here to debate...you can find it and read it if you find it interesting enough if not...see the above
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  28. #28
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    Re: The red rose in Quran

    Originally posted by nozol
    Hi everyone,

    God says in the Quran:

    "When the sky is torn apart, so it was (like) a red rose like ointment. Then which of the favors of your lord will you deny?" Al-Rahman 37-38

    Compare it to the following picture from NASA

    http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap991031.html

    What do you think?

    Best regards,

    Ahmed
    Amazing Picture
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  29. #29
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    Originally posted by [eS]s.h.a.z.y
    Shyne, GET OVER IT... There are hundreds and thousands of things in the Qu'ran which scientist/people have only realised 100's of years after.

    Dont deny the truth...

    I wonder why Islam is the quicket growing religion in the world? Oh wait its a concidence.
    The truth is that the Quaran (other religious material) is bloated with vague information and I will not be surprised if the translation into English would become something it originally wasn't. Take a look at original post from nozol. His quote is vague into obscurity and he applies it to that picture. It's not a miracle.

    If you are so sure of your statement, then feel free to quote directly things that people find so miraculous.

    Islam is the fasest growing religioun amongst who? What people? What region? Or are you just saying this because they said it on TV? Most people don't even have a proper education. What do you expect them to do? I am not denoting a correlation between these two things, but I am just trying to tell you that just because it is growing fast doesn't mean it's a good thing. AIDS is a growing fast too. Should we embrace that?
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  30. #30
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    Originally posted by Shyne
    The truth is that the Quaran (other religious material) is bloated with vague information and I will not be surprised if the translation into English would become something it originally wasn't. Take a look at original post from nozol. His quote is vague into obscurity and he applies it to that picture. It's not a miracle.

    If you are so sure of your statement, then feel free to quote directly things that people find so miraculous.

    Islam is the fasest growing religioun amongst who? What people? What region? Or are you just saying this because they said it on TV? Most people don't even have a proper education. What do you expect them to do? I am not denoting a correlation between these two things, but I am just trying to tell you that just because it is growing fast doesn't mean it's a good thing. AIDS is a growing fast too. Should we embrace that?
    Those are 2 totally different things. Religion and a disease?

    Anyways shyne, you made me think about this stuff so I did a search and found:

    http://www.islam-for-everyone.com/co...slam_index.htm

    I still think that picture looks amazing. Why argue over a picture?

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  31. #31
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    Originally posted by creedance
    which is forbidden in Islam .- i mean to debate over religion.

    Then the person who started the topic should've called it "Look at this awesome picture" rather than clearly depicting this as some sort of religious miracle.

    You're on an open forum where people have different views [obviously]. Placing your religion along with a picture of a star exploding is often going to draw people into the thread for debate over whether it is a natural occurance or a miracle.
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  32. #32
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    I realize this is non of my business, but...

    Shyne, I think you are way out of line in this thread. Nozol deserves more respect than this. He posted a link to a beautiful picture along with a line from the Quran. You disagreed that the two were connected based on scientific evidence. That is your right. But nozol has a right to his beliefs, and it is disrespectful for you to dismiss them in the manner you do.

    I am not a great student of theology, but I do know a major ingredient in most religions is faith. You may post scientific evidence to the contrary, but nozol's faith may be stronger. Also, you may point out that the rose nebula is actually an exploding star, but who is to say God did not create that exploding star? I embrace science. I am Jewish, however I am not very religious. With my scientific background and my lack of religious conviction, I still find myself turning to my religious beliefs time and time again. There is clearly room for both.

    Again, you are entitled to your beliefs on religion. Nozol made a beautiful observation that was in no way offensive. Rather than criticize him, can't you admire and respect his faith? Even if you can't, there is certainly no need to attack him for it
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  33. #33
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    Originally posted by rooshine
    I realize this is non of my business, but...

    Shyne, I think you are way out of line in this thread. Nozol deserves more respect than this. He posted a link to a beautiful picture along with a line from the Quran. You disagreed that the two were connected based on scientific evidence. That is your right. But nozol has a right to his beliefs, and it is disrespectful for you to dismiss them in the manner you do.

    I am not a great student of theology, but I do know a major ingredient in most religions is faith. You may post scientific evidence to the contrary, but nozol's faith may be stronger. Also, you may point out that the rose nebula is actually an exploding star, but who is to say God did not create that exploding star? I embrace science. I am Jewish, however I am not very religious. With my scientific background and my lack of religious conviction, I still find myself turning to my religious beliefs time and time again. There is clearly room for both.

    Again, you are entitled to your beliefs on religion. Nozol made a beautiful observation that was in no way offensive. Rather than criticize him, can't you admire and respect his faith? Even if you can't, there is certainly no need to attack him for it
    Well said Webworkz, you are right in a way too.. But just look through these forums and see how many threads are started with powerful topic names..
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  34. #34
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    Originally posted by sHosts
    Well said Webworkz, you are right in a way too.. But just look through these forums and see how many threads are started with powerful topic names..

    I am very aware of this. But, most of the time people respect other people coming in and making their opinions known; thus is the purpose for the entire thread: to discuss the given topic.


    This thread is akin to posting "I had a bad experience with company XYZ" and then telling other people in the thread not to talk about company XYZ.


    Awesome picture; but horrible thread.


    [/END THREAD DERAILMENT ... as if it could be derailed.]
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  35. #35
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    Originally posted by rooshine
    Nozol made a beautiful observation that was in no way offensive.
    I hope you are not speaking for all of us. You may not think it's offensive, and that's fine, however that doesn't mean the rest of us may or may not.


    That is indeed a nice picture Nozol.
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  36. #36
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    Originally posted by rooshine
    Nozol made a beautiful observation that was, in my opinion, in no way offensive.

    Fixed.
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  37. #37
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    Originally posted by [eS]s.h.a.z.y
    . . . I wonder why Islam is the quicket growing religion in the world? Oh wait its a concidence.
    Source please.
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  38. #38
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    Originally posted by webworkz
    I am very aware of this. But, most of the time people respect other people coming in and making their opinions known; thus is the purpose for the entire thread: to discuss the given topic.


    This thread is akin to posting "I had a bad experience with company XYZ" and then telling other people in the thread not to talk about company XYZ.
    I see your point, but I disagree. It is not exactly like your example. In your example, other people will come in and say "I also had a bad experience..." or "I've been with them for years and they're great..." etc. That would essentially be the point of that thread. In this case I felt the thread was hijacked for another agenda, which happens often here on many different threads. I also felt there was a disrespectful tone in some of the posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by westcan
    I hope you are not speaking for all of us. You may not think it's offensive, and that's fine, however that doesn't mean the rest of us may or may not.
    Yes, that is my opinion, and yes, I can't speak for what others may find offensive. But I stand firmly by my opinion. People may disagree with nozol's statements. But offensive? Someone will have to explain to me how another's religious beliefs are offensive.
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  39. #39
    Hi everyone, I am back after a few hours of sleeping.


    First of all, thank you so much all of you for your really nice comments and posts.

    I just want to say that no matter what each one of us beleive, there should be always a space for each of us to talk to to each other, and respect each other's views. There is nothing wrong, IMHO, with you do not like my beleives or me do not like yours and so on. But the point is, we should stay friends and respect each other, and there is no reason at all to be ashamed of what you think.

    If I beleive in something, I will never feel offended if someone tells me, no you are wrong. On the contrary, I will tell him thank you so much for your concern, just please see my point of view, and if you are not convinced, then it is ok, I respect that.

    For the point that creedence said, it is true that BAD debate is forbidden. Which means that if you debate over something and keep the respect to your partner in the debate, then it is OK.

    God teaches us how to debate in the Quran by saying:

    "Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and Most Gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from his path, and who receive guidance. And if ye do catch them out, catch them out no worse than they catch you put: but if ye show patience, that is indeed the best (course) for those who are patient. And do thou be patient, for thy patience is but from Allah; nor grieve over them: and distress not thyself because of their plots." 125-127 The Bees


    Thank you so much all of you for your replies and comments.

    I do not see why we should stop this thread in the lights of the above guidlines, but if you see that we stop, it is OK, I sure respect your thoughts and it is your right not to hear what you do not like.

    Wish you all the very best of luck and success and happiness!

    Best regards,

    Ahmed
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  40. #40
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    Originally posted by rooshine
    I see your point, but I disagree. It is not exactly like your example. In your example, other people will come in and say "I also had a bad experience..." or "I've been with them for years and they're great..." etc. That would essentially be the point of that thread. In this case I felt the thread was hijacked for another agenda, which happens often here on many different threads.

    Repeat:

    [/END THREAD HIJACK].


    Edit: I originally said "Derailment", but you get my point.
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