Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Web Hosting : Still researching & have sd/bw ??'s

[DireFog]

Hello again! We're still researching hosts and packages and am debating whether or not to begin searching on Therapists instead. oy!

Could someone please clarify for us the issues of unlimited subdomain given within a Limited BW package? We blindly thought that as long as we don't go over our storage and BW allotments then having as many subdomains as we'd need to use would be fine. Now we are reading about how subdomains are abusing 'system resouces' which seems to be seperate from bw and storage. Help!

Why does it matter how a package is broken up by the user as long as the bw/storage is not overused?.. oh, and 'system resource'.


Foggie

[thedavid]

A host who offers 'unlimited subdomains' will usually allow clients to make as many as they need, until it starts hurting system performance. For example, 10-100 subdomains may be just fine, but creating 100,000 subdomains would probably be crossing the line

"System Resources" is defined as a collective measurement of the memory, cpu, hard drive, and more in a server. If you start making 100,000 subdomains, it will start impacting memory and cpu usage, thus pushing your needs past a regular shared webhosting plan.

Hope that kinda helps
-David

[XTHosting]

Most host offers Unlimited E-mails, Sub-Domains, etc...

BUT

in their TOS you'll see something like this

Excessive Use of Resources

While we do offer our resellers many things unlimited such as the following:
Unlimited Pop3 Mail
Unlimited Auto Responders
Unlimited MySql DB's
Unlimited Mailing Lists
Unlimited Subdomains
Unlimited Forwarding
Unlimited FTP Accounts
excessive use of these resources will cause your account to be suspended or terminated. A warning will be issued prior to suspension and/or termination. Excessive use is defined as using more then 3% of system resources.


James B.

[DireFog]

Yes, these explanations are helping. I think.

Why don't they 'cap' them for us then so that we know the limits instead of guessing the limits? If I 'assume' 100,000 for 'all' hosts then learn the hard way that it was 'all hosts except the host I signed up with'... How do we 'know' before hand what exactly the cap would be, in other words.

[bonnmac]

Well I'll give our reasons behind it. Since most clients will not abuse the unlimited (or I suppose a better word would be un-metered) features we like to give our resellers the most we can for their money. As it is difficult to make a profit in the reseller world with so many people offering the $1.00/mo plans.

Even with a cap on things you could still have a site that could be using more system resources then can be allowed in a shared enviorment. I have actually thought about capping our resellers but since we've never had anyone in the year we've been in business abuse anything I felt it was best to leave things the way they are. When/if the time arises we will deal with the abuser in the best way possible. Thus the rest of our resellers still get the most for their money.

I hope that makes sense. It does to me anyway.

[akashik]

Originally posted by DireFog
Yes, these explanations are helping. I think.

Why don't they 'cap' them for us then so that we know the limits instead of guessing the limits? If I 'assume' 100,000 for 'all' hosts then learn the hard way that it was 'all hosts except the host I signed up with'... How do we 'know' before hand what exactly the cap would be, in other words.

That's exactly why many web hosts do exactly that. A set amount of resources are allocated for a set price. We know what they have, and the customer knows what they have. If their account requires more than that, then they can upgrade their account - and get more 'stuff'.

While unlimited transfer and disk space has a fairly black and white opinion, these other 'unlimited' features fall into quite a wide swathe of grey. My own opinion is that it's not too much different, and shouldn't really be offered if you're being totally honest about things.

[DireFog]

For example, 10-100 subdomains may be just fine, but creating 100,000 subdomains would probably be crossing the line

It's the 'may be' that's the stickler. From what you're saying, I am concluding that if every client of the host used 100 subs.. it could 'stress' the host's resources. If this is a correct conclusion, then does that mean we would all be considered 'abusers' and be deleted?

If the host gave us all (ie) 200 subdomains from the beginning, it would be safer for all involved, because the Host has the 'resources' accounted for from the very beginning correct?

Bonnie, don't cap until we decide who to go with, then cap all those who sign up afterward but not before we do if we do.

[CrazyTech]

Well you are only going to have x number of people per server. Say you do not oversell at all and you have 50 users (just an estimate you could have more or less) and they each use 100 sub domains. That's 5000 sub domains total vs one person having 10000 sub domains with one user and still having other users with a sub domain adds up. You're probably not going to get cut from a reliable host for using a fair amount.

Unlimited domains is just a selling point as it is attractive to many users and often is never abused. Most users hardly use 10 sub domains from my experience, so the scenario you mentioned is very unlikely to happen, but I suppose it always could.

[DireFog]

Unlimited subs are then a pretty safe bet, correct? To assure there is no abuse is it up to the Host or the Client to dbl check the available resources?

[bonnmac]

Originally posted by DireFog
Unlimited subs are then a pretty safe bet, correct? To assure there is no abuse is it up to the Host or the Client to dbl check the available resources?

I believe it is the responsibility of both the reseller and the host to keep an eye on things. And if a problem arises there should be excellent communication between the two so a solution can be found.

[Coach]

Generally, I group unlimited anything in the same catagory as unlimited space and transfer. The only difference is that I think that unlimited space/transfer plans are flat out scams and unlimited email/subdomains/etc accounts are just selling points.

Let's say that a host offers unlimited emails and a company signs up for their $10 a month 1 gig of space and 20 gigs of transfer hosting plan with unlimited emails. That company decides to create an email account for every user in that company and the company works in the office from 8 to 5 every day. Those 300 employees keep Outlook open while they are at work and checks the server every five minutes for new messages. Add a few accounts like this and you're going to have problems.

The problem with offering unlimited anything is that, while granted very few people will ever try to actually try to test it, some people will and then are left wondering why the server is going down, running slow etc. In a day and age where 300+ accounts per box is the norm, not preparing for users that actually use their allotted resources becomes a problem.

My *personal* opinion is that there should be set limits on everything within a hosting account. That way the client always knows what to expect and you can deliver on what you advertise.

[DireFog]

I agree.

Thank you everyone for your much needed and welcome input. I think I'm grasping the issues to the issues which are non issues except when they're issues.