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  1. #1
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    Dual oc 192's out of NJ?

    Does anyone know of a provider that has dual 192's out of NJ? I got this friend and i think he's being taken for a ride!

    this guy tells me dedicatednow.com told him they are running Dual oc-192's

    HAHHAH
    Last edited by SeanK; 07-07-2003 at 07:18 PM.

  2. #2
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    Only the big guys have OC192 backbones.. so if its Sprint, AT&T, UUNET, Qwest, you get the idea... then its true.

    But they only have OC192 as their backbone to their largest POPs. All of them have network maps on their sites so you can see where the OC192 pipes are.
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  3. #3
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    Does the NAC DC have OC192 running thru them. I would guess there would be quite a few OC48 running.

  4. #4
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    XO
    XO has OC-192
    Global Crossing
    I'm almost sure GC (GLX) has OC-192 too
    Aleron
    Aleron Has OC-48
    MFN
    MFN has OC-192 to london the rest off usa it's all about OC-48 and 1 OC-12 (LA to Boston and than 2x OC-12 to lodon)
    and a OC-3 (NY / Atlanta)
    Verio
    Has OC-48 and OC-12 all over us (more OC-48 than OC-12)
    and has a few OC-12 to lodon and 4 OC-48 and about 6 OC-12 and about 10 OC-3
    Wiltel
    Has lot's off OC-48 around us and DS-3 , OC-3 , OC-12 and GiG-e true usa..
    Cable & Wireless
    Has a couple off OC-48 around usa...
    Cogent
    I think it's OC-192 there hole backbone true us...
    UUNet
    has all kind'a backbones goin true usa

    DedicatedNow MIGHT have a GiG-E noting more beacuse when they had that problem it there backbone they had anh
    OC-12 ( 622Mbps ) They might have 2x OC-12 now but I don't see they having more than 1.5 GB/s

  5. #5
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    Oh yeah, i totally forgot that's the point where they start going overseas. So all of the major carrier should have OC192 in that region or near Ashburn.

  6. #6
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    Originally posted by Mfjp
    Oh yeah, i totally forgot that's the point where they start going overseas. So all of the major carrier should have OC192 in that region or near Ashburn.
    Yeah but there are not many OC-192 on US ground... only conections.....

    The most OC-192 fiber in us i think it's cogent... that covers major city's

    there are mayble 2-3 more that have OC-192 but it's not that much...

  7. #7
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    I would see a problem in lying to a customer. Then again DN is not a scam. But why would it matter if they had dual OC-192s unless they were a) overselling or congesting it or b) you needed 10Gbps? Very few companies have OC-192s at all, and probably none with two out of the same POP (and in NJ!). It's threads like these which are patently confusing.

  8. #8
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    OC-192s are big pipes, I remember getting a quote from Qwest awhile back for OC-48 it was nearly a million dollars per month, this was also a few years ago.

  9. #9
    Originally posted by roundice
    I would see a problem in lying to a customer. Then again DN is not a scam. But why would it matter if they had dual OC-192s unless they were a) overselling or congesting it or b) you needed 10Gbps? Very few companies have OC-192s at all, and probably none with two out of the same POP (and in NJ!). It's threads like these which are patently confusing.
    Several Providers have Dual OC-192's for redundancy. Especially in a area where they are hoping to their overseas peers.
    I know Cogent has Dual OC-192 Backbone and their Metro's are only oc-48 I believe.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Daver
    Several Providers have Dual OC-192's for redundancy. Especially in a area where they are hoping to their overseas peers.
    I know Cogent has Dual OC-192 Backbone and their Metro's are only oc-48 I believe.
    Yes I remeber some where reading that cogent OC-192 nation wide was just for city conections in each city there are few OC-48 ( deppends on the size i think and demmand )


    obs :
    OC-12 (622Mbps)
    OC-48 (2.5 Gbps)
    OC-192(10 Gbps)


    OC-192s are big pipes, I remember getting a quote from Qwest awhile back for OC-48 it was nearly a million dollars per month, this was also a few years ago.
    I know a GiG-E it Cogent it's 30.000 (10.000 for biz that are not reselling the conection, hosting and etc)

    Soh 1 Million dollars for a OC-48 i don't see that how in today marks. i would say it's from
    US$ 75.000.00 (cogent)
    to max.
    US$ 500.000.00 (tier1 high bw prices hehe )

    But in these days it's best to get like 2 GiG-e it a commint offuse off only 200 mb/s but burst. to 1 GB both lines
    Last edited by hostingsp; 07-08-2003 at 02:12 AM.

  11. #11
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    Be careful with marketing material, what Cogent's site says:

    The Cogent national backbone is designed to operate at OC-192. The MAN rings at OC-48. Our Cisco Powered Network uses ring redundancy and protected optronics to ensure survivability and availability of service.
    That doesn't mean their backbone is actually operating at OC192, just that it is OC192 capable. Considering their relatively small client base, I don't believe they would have a need to operate at full OC192 at this time.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by allan
    Be careful with marketing material, what Cogent's site says:



    That doesn't mean their backbone is actually operating at OC192, just that it is OC192 capable. Considering their relatively small client base, I don't believe they would have a need to operate at full OC192 at this time.
    I don't think cogent will say they can operate at that speed and can't not operate at that speed...

    Cogent is the first and only IP data only nationwide network in the country. Running at an unprecedented 80 Gbps
    don't think it's running at 80 GB/s but it can operate at that level... if there is mark.

    PS : but i don't think cogent needs to operate at 80 GB/s it no mark using that much beacuse it's just goin to heat up there fiber (not only the fiber) and no good comes from this if you are not using it
    Last edited by hostingsp; 07-08-2003 at 02:35 AM.

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by hostingsp
    I don't think cogent will say they can operate at that speed and can't not operate at that speed...
    My point is that there is a big difference between being OC192 capable and actually having OC192 lines installed. All their page implies is that they are capable of provisioning OC192 connections for their transit, but it doesn't say they have any OC192 transit (compare their working with providers who actually have OC192 circuits provisioned (like UUNET).

  14. #14
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    Yep, I think I could go lease a dark fiber tomorrow and tell the world I'm OC192 capable. The fiber itself is capable, if that is what the company is trying to promote the whole way.

    I personally don't take that OC stuff anymore, all I care is if I could get the whole bw I brought for out the pipes.

  15. #15
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    Soh 1 Million dollars for a OC-48 i don't see that how in today marks. i would say it's from
    US$ 75.000.00 (cogent)
    to max.
    US$ 500.000.00 (tier1 high bw prices hehe )

    But in these days it's best to get like 2 GiG-e it a commint offuse off only 200 mb/s but burst. to 1 GB both lines [/B]

    This is most likely the case today, this was awhile back I think around 1999 maybe 2000?

    Most places unless they have their own backbone are not running oc48s or oc192.

    OC3s and gig-es are fairly common place today.

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by ispclub.com
    Only the big guys have OC192 backbones.. so if its Sprint, AT&T, UUNET, Qwest, you get the idea... then its true.

    But they only have OC192 as their backbone to their largest POPs. All of them have network maps on their sites so you can see where the OC192 pipes are.
    Not really... as it was stated OC192 is a MASSIVE line, and even the major carriers would only use it for a backbone. There isn't a single carrier hotel in the world that has a OC192 feed (at least that I'm aware of), and as stated, only a few carriers even use that for a backbone... That being said, what allan said is a total truth here. Cogent may be OC192 capable (meaning, they have a 10 Gbps backbone) but even with a 10 Gbps backbone you can't actually push 10 Gbps (unless you know of an example where anyone was able to push full capacity 24/7 without drops, connection loss etc).

    So in other words, no DN nor any company for that matter, is running a "dual-OC192", technically it's possible that they have a 20 Gbps (or their carrier) but they certainly don't have 2 OC192's running, nor a network that could handle anywhere NEAR 2 OC192's (just guessing).

    Quote Originally Posted by neonlexx
    OC-192s are big pipes, I remember getting a quote from Qwest awhile back for OC-48 it was nearly a million dollars per month, this was also a few years ago.
    I think you may be remembering that wrong, even a few years ago. At that price you'd be paying $400 mbps on a 2.5Gig commit? No way... not even three years ago... you're probably thinking of a lot bigger connection.
    A well-reasoned assumption is very close to fact.
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  17. #17
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    I know for a fact that setup fee was $90k.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by neonlexx
    I know for a fact that setup fee was $90k.
    That could very well be the case, especially if the fiber hasn't already been laid... but that is still a LONG way from $1,000,000
    A well-reasoned assumption is very close to fact.
    - Adorno

  19. #19
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    It depends what they mean. I strongly doubt they have an OC-192 run to their building. If they mean that their upstream has an OC-192, I'd believe it.

    But that's extremely deceptive. I have a cable modem, but if you do a traceroute, my cable company's peered with places having GigEs, OC-48's, etc. But that doesn't mean I have an OC-48 backbone at my house! A lot of places seem to have this, and I don't see how it's anything but blatant fraud.

  20. #20
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    Originally posted by allan Considering their relatively small client base, I don't believe they would have a need to operate at full OC192 at this time.
    I'm not so sure. If they had 100 customers with 100 Mbps lines, they'd fill the OC192. 10 people with GigE lines would fill it. I'm willing to bet that Cogent has more than 100 customers. (They claim that they don't oversell.)

    Having an OC-192 backbone is vastly different than having two of them running into your colo cabinet, which is rather what DN seems to be implying is the case.

  21. #21
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    dedicatednow uses NAC only and NAC's largest pipe is an GIGE (1000mbit) ... No where near an OC192..

    Lets not forget the heavy packetloss everyone was complaing over because NAC had delays in adding an additional OC12 (622mbits)....

    http://www.nac.net/images/networkmaps/nacnetworkmap.gif

    If your going to lie, lie to an degree not so its so damn obvious...
    ^^ IM WITH STUPID!! ^^

    "The only way to overcome fear, is to challenge it head on"
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by fog
    I'm not so sure. If they had 100 customers with 100 Mbps lines, they'd fill the OC192. 10 people with GigE lines would fill it. I'm willing to bet that Cogent has more than 100 customers. (They claim that they don't oversell.)
    Any ISP that doesn't oversell is either incompetent or doomed to failure (although, I guess we are talking about Cogent here ). You have to oversell, it doesn't make sense not to oversell, because it would be impossible to provision enough bandwidth for all of your customers and not oversell.

    Think about it, I think last I read...hold on...Okay, according to their latest SEC filing, they had revenue of $14.233 Million for the first quarter of 2003, assuming an average of customer billing of $1000 per month, that's 4744 customers (Cogent does not release actual customer numbers, so this is speculation on my part).

    If they did not oversell they would have to maintain 474,400 Megabit connections throughout their backbone and to all other ISPs they peer with -- that does not seem realistic to me .

  23. #23
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    I'd actually bet that the majority of the lines they sell are of the $3K reselling-allowed variety, although it's nothing but a guess.

    But yeah, some people make it sound like overselling even slightly should be a felony. Phone companies oversell -- if everyone in America picked up their phone at once, there'd be a lot of busy signals. They have enough lines to support their 'peak' call volume and then some, so the "All circuits are busy" messages are (usually) rare, but they _do_ oversell. Similarly, airlines regularly "overbook" slightly, figuring that a few people won't show up. It is a fact of business; it's when it's done excessively that it's a problem. (Such as if an airplane put 12,000 people on one jet.)

    BTW, from dedicatednow.com:
    "DedicatedNow will offer fast, reliable connectivity to the internet via multiple OC-12 connections to over 75 diverse providers." -- http://www.dedicatednow.com/?pid=network
    (Of course, now the "75 diverse providers" is slightly deceptive... It looks like they have about 3 providers who are peered with all sorts of people.)

  24. #24
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    fog
    I don't think backbone providers will over-sell there backbone like ISP oversell than...

    Beacuse they have to provide that speed 24/7 that's is statement in ervy sla...

    but they might over-sell it but i don't think cogent east to west fiber is overselled beacuse they have 2x OC-192 but the metro area I don't know how they oversell and how much

  25. #25
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    Fog,
    Maybe this would help a little. You have to take into account that Traffic are routed and switched. That means that the whole 474,000 Megs of bandwidth is not running on a singled OC192. The traffic is split and spread amongst node from point to point.

    backbone provider could also do overselling now because DWDM gear is ready and waiting. Once they filled up the Link, they could just use another wavelength. This is the art of light.

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