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  1. #1

    Secondhand copies of Windows 2012 Server Datacenter?

    Hey everyone,


    I have been looking after an old co-located Windows 2003 box for a bunch of organisations (outdoor clubs, etc) who have all had their websites and/or email served from this one server for years. This has been largely a "for the love of it" kind of job. They all host together due to previous bad experiences and, well, $40 a month hosting fees between 8 clubs is pretty hard to argue with.

    Anyway, have finally convinced them it is time for an upgrade (nothing serious, likely a single processor, two at most with no more than 8 cores per proc). Most importantly though is I want to break them out into a virtualized environment so each club has its own VM as there have been a few....mishaps.... over the years caused by one or more clubs that have impacted everyone. Some clubs are also more active than others so going with VM's will make it easier to divvy up the costs between everyone. If this works well, we'll almost certainly end up with several more clubs jumping on board.

    They'll need to stick with Windows if I am to continue helping them on the server management side and this group definitely want to own the software, they do not want month by month leasing fees. I think I need a Windows Server Datacenter license if we are to go with the VM model. I near had a fit when I saw that a new Datacenter license costs $6000. The entire upgrade budget I am working to is around 1/3 of that.

    Long story short, I see a lot of Windows 2012 R2 Datacenter licenses on Ebay and the like. Most are below $400. I know Windows 2016 is just around the corner, but honestly Windows 2012 would be a massive leap forward. Keeping in mind that licensing is not my strong point, what do I need to be wary of here?

  2. #2
    I'm not 100% sure, I've been away from it for a while, but I know back when Microsoft had the technet program, you had people selling those "licenses" for really cheap. Everything would appear legit, but not really. Is there any way to confirm the license with Microsoft before purchasing? This type of behavior is exactly why Technet got shut down. Now there's MSDN licensing that you can essentially do the same thing with. I wonder if this $400 datacenter license is really just someone reselling part of their MSDN.

    You'd have to double check all this, but I do remember that datacenter licensing covers all the VMs on the node. For 2008R2, I think you got 1VM on standard, 4VMs on Enterprise. I don't know if 2012 follows that same path. I guess what I'm getting at is maybe you can buy 2 copies of enterprise to cover 8 VMs. Datacenter is pricey unless you really have density on the node.
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  3. #3
    Yeah, had looked at the 2008 option but wasn't sure what I needed to get to be legit, then also what do I do if we get additional clubs joining (which I'm 80% sure we will) but can't get secondhand 2008 licenses for the same price? Licensing of VM's seems to be very simple with 2012. Get Datacenter and keep it below 2 physical CPU's and you can have as many VM's as you want...

    Hadn't thought about Technet / MSDN rip offs. Ones I'm looking at are claiming to be physical items with a physical activation keycard needing to be mailed out.

  4. #4
    Hmm, it may be fine then.

    As another option, Server 2012 Standard enables two VMs, so you could pay as people jump on board.

    https://social.technet.microsoft.com...=winserver8gen

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/serv...licensing.aspx

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...728&isNodeId=1

    $2800 for 8 VMs though. A little more, and you'd be at datacenter level.
    Bobby - PreciselyManaged.com - Precision Hosting Solutions
    █ Enterprise Shared, Reseller, VPS, Hybrid, and Dedicated Hosting
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ConfusedAdmin View Post
    I know Windows 2016 is just around the corner, but honestly Windows 2012 would be a massive leap forward.
    Also keep in mind that 2016 SPLA licenses will be licensed per-core instead of per-socket as they were in the past. It is not a retroactive change so 2012 will remain licensed per-socket. I don't know how this change will affect the retail pricing, but it will certainly affect certain small or very dense compute solutions licensed under the paid-monthly SPLA model.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by prologan View Post
    Also keep in mind that 2016 SPLA licenses will be licensed per-core instead of per-socket as they were in the past. It is not a retroactive change so 2012 will remain licensed per-socket. I don't know how this change will affect the retail pricing, but it will certainly affect certain small or very dense compute solutions licensed under the paid-monthly SPLA model.
    Thanks, though from my reading of the Windows 2016 Server pricing as long as your your server is 2 socket and 16 cores or less there will be no price difference from current. Beside the point anyway as going new is out of my league.

    Purchasing secondhand seems to be a very grey area. For software that is activated online you'd actually think that it would be easy (even if for a small fee) to verify if the software is legit or not. I mean, I can purchase a second-hand car freely and easily and for a small $$ can get all sorts of info based off the VIN.

    Anyway, the only way I can find that you can purchase a Datacentre license is via the Open License program. I can't seem to find any detail as to what I should expect physically from this purchase (media, certificate, doco, etc), and what are the exact terms of this license? Do I own the software outright (i.e non expiring)? Can I install it on a new server should the current one die?

    Only thing of use I've found is the Datacenter SKU is P71-07835.

  7. #7
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    You never own the software outright. You have no legal option but SPLA with what you are doing here. It is the only legal way to host these organizations. Technet isn't a legal way, open license isn't legal, purchasing it used is not legal. You can get caught for it and just defending yourself will cost more than getting ti via SPLA or from your datacenter via SPLA if you lease/rent the hardware from them.

  8. #8
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    Agree with @(Stephen) here - you only ever just license the software. I'd be very leery of any software offered on eBay.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by (Stephen) View Post
    You never own the software outright. You have no legal option but SPLA with what you are doing here. It is the only legal way to host these organizations. Technet isn't a legal way, open license isn't legal, purchasing it used is not legal. You can get caught for it and just defending yourself will cost more than getting ti via SPLA or from your datacenter via SPLA if you lease/rent the hardware from them.
    Thanks for the replies again. Wow, really? $6k and you never own the software? As far as usage though, Open License is non-expiring and I can install it on another server as long as there is only 1 active at any time?

    Not sure I follow (again, licensing is not my strong point), but why do you think my only option is SPLA? That is a monthly leasing sort of deal right? Why would I not be able to purchase (or whatever it is you get for $6k) and use that?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConfusedAdmin View Post
    Thanks for the replies again. Wow, really? $6k and you never own the software? As far as usage though, Open License is non-expiring and I can install it on another server as long as there is only 1 active at any time?

    Not sure I follow (again, licensing is not my strong point), but why do you think my only option is SPLA? That is a monthly leasing sort of deal right? Why would I not be able to purchase (or whatever it is you get for $6k) and use that?
    Correct, you simply license it, and you would be in violation of the license.

    If you were a SINGLE company hosting that companies own server in colo, you could used a purchased license, but that does not fit your usage case.
    That means SPLA is the only option for you by the license agreement you bind yourself to on purchase and installation. It doesn't matter if these companies are are non profit, charity, small single person business, you still have to license it via SPLA.

  11. #11
    Thank you for taking the time to explain it Stephen. Seems Microsoft are making it very hard for small customers to stay legal, both financially as well as with the practicality of their license structure. In light of this, I have two legal options as I see it if we are to stick with Microsoft;

    1) Form something like a cooperative (which we effectively are anyway, just not officially) for the hosting, purchase our own Datacenter license and continue hosting ourselves.
    1a) Would need some form of legal doco written up for members joining or exiting the coop.
    2b) Have no idea what costs are involved or how much.

    2) Would be a very hard sell to convince this group to lease a server with a license from an SPLA provider, so I would need to apply for SPLA myself. Assuming I was able to get it, from the only online pricing I am seeing it would be $65 a month for a Datacenter license. This is 1.5x our current month to month hosting costs. Can't see this route working unless we get another half dozen or so clubs to join on in.

    Failing those, think it is time for me to nut up and get to really know Linux. I'm not bad with non Microsoft operating systems, have used FreeBSD for storage and XBMC for my HTPC for years. Just not confident in my skills in being able to lock it down sufficiently to put it out in the wild.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConfusedAdmin View Post
    Thank you for taking the time to explain it Stephen. Seems Microsoft are making it very hard for small customers to stay legal, both financially as well as with the practicality of their license structure. In light of this, I have two legal options as I see it if we are to stick with Microsoft;

    1) Form something like a cooperative (which we effectively are anyway, just not officially) for the hosting, purchase our own Datacenter license and continue hosting ourselves.
    1a) Would need some form of legal doco written up for members joining or exiting the coop.
    2b) Have no idea what costs are involved or how much.

    2) Would be a very hard sell to convince this group to lease a server with a license from an SPLA provider, so I would need to apply for SPLA myself. Assuming I was able to get it, from the only online pricing I am seeing it would be $65 a month for a Datacenter license. This is 1.5x our current month to month hosting costs. Can't see this route working unless we get another half dozen or so clubs to join on in.

    Failing those, think it is time for me to nut up and get to really know Linux. I'm not bad with non Microsoft operating systems, have used FreeBSD for storage and XBMC for my HTPC for years. Just not confident in my skills in being able to lock it down sufficiently to put it out in the wild.
    No, it's actually way higher than $65/month for datacenter. It's more in the realm of $120/m per socket at the moment taxes and such included.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by (Stephen) View Post
    No, it's actually way higher than $65/month for datacenter. It's more in the realm of $120/m per socket at the moment taxes and such included.
    $120 per socket ?

    No way a 400% monthly increase is going to go down, especially as it is only for leasing the license.

    Guess my last remaining option is the coop, then onto an open source solution...

  14. #14
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    Keep in mind you won't be approved for a SPLA account if you only need to license 1 server
    Out of my head; W2012 Std is like 14 a month, W2012 DC license is 120/m
    W2012 is licensed per physical processor, so if you upgrade to a dual cpu server you will need to double your licenses

  15. #15
    I think I found something that may help. Could your needs fit inside windows containers?

    https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vir...about_overview

    It's new in the Microsoft world, but a 2016 Standard license covers unlimited containers:

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/serv...016/#MenuItem4

    As an alternative, if the websites/email can run on Linux, you can switch to that as you suggested, and then hit up an outside vendor to help you secure it.

    Oh, and to add, I know there's legality considerations too. Forming the co-op would be no problem. Set up an LLC, and document the co-op in the operating agreement.
    Last edited by UH-Bobby; 06-13-2016 at 01:18 PM.

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