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  1. #1
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    CloudLinux vs Virtuozzo

    How are CloudLinux and Virtuozzo different? Isn't CloudLinux just another virtualization tool?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    You are comparing 2 different technologies. CloudLinux is an operating system which offers kinda application level virtualization that helps shared hosts to limit resource usage per user and to isolate accounts. Where Virtuozzo is a virtualization product from Odin, which offers OpenVZ based virtualization and helps to create VPS.
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  3. #3
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    We already use HSP from Parallels (now Odin) and it handles all server provisioning at the hardware and memory level. It also has a built-in billing system, tech. support, etc. We use Plesk and are adding cPanel that HSP cannot work with. Can CloudLinux handle Plesk and if I may ask, why do I need to manage a shared hosting customers memory, mysql usage, etc. so tightly? If they are a resource hog they may be dealt with. I am happy to learn new tricks so throw them at me! :-)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSHosting View Post
    You are comparing 2 different technologies.
    It's the same technology, CloudLinux internals are based on Virtuozzo, through some sort of "partnership". I suspect if you dig deep enough you'd find they are more or less the same company.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Microlinux View Post
    It's the same technology, CloudLinux internals are based on Virtuozzo, through some sort of "partnership". I suspect if you dig deep enough you'd find they are more or less the same company.
    Well..this is really new to me. I understand that both the technologies ( OpenVZ ) use kernel hack to make things work. But I never knew that same technology is underlying behind both of them. Of course I am not an expert to take a close look into their code or kernel hacks Perhaps someone else can shed some lights on this.

    @OP :- CloudLinux has default integration options with almost all major control panels including Plesk. Limiting rseource usage per user is vital for shared hosts, so that single user cannot hog all servers resources and bring server to its knees. They may not be a resource abusive use, but any small level of attack ( like xmlrpc for WP website ) can bring the services down very easily unless there is some resource usage limit.
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  6. #6
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    Microlinux is correct. I actually confirmed that with the Cloudlinux developers as well. Its based on the same technology but they are for different purposes. Both are container technologies.

  7. #7
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    OpenVZ is the public domain / open source test bed of Virtuozzo. Once debugged the modules are brought into Virtuozzo and sold. A nice racket, right? But now I am reading that CloudLinux too is based on Virtuozzo? The difference is that it more or less containerizes individual sites so that a site cannot bust out of resources - like having been infected by a hack and attacking outbound, or a fool for a programmer that creates a huge loop? I've got to say that in 15 years we have hosted thousands and thousands of web sites and this is not a huge issue. We run different too,ls tat scrub uploads to a site and a solid hardware firewall that limits port access. We don't allow SSH and that alone dropped servers being rooted to next to none.

    We are adding cPanel based on customer demand. I'll consider CloudLinux but I have yet to read why I should spend more and more money on monthly subscriptions. We already load the OS and then Virtuozzo on top of that. This protects the server at the core level. We then load Plesk inside a container, sometimes two containers on a server with two installations of Plesk if they are small. With powerful dual proc XEON's and multi-core operations combined with 32/64GB of RAM it has dropped the need to hardware reboot a physical server too almost never. This saves power supplies.

    Please sell me on CloudLinux :-)

  8. #8
    Yup..I was under the impression that they work based on same concept...but surprised to see they use same technology!
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  9. #9
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    Odin doesn't seem to put as much into VZ as they did before. I think that word has gotten out that OpenVZ is the same thing. In fact you'll find the same people on the forums as the Administrators on Odin.

    But CloudLinux - what's up with that? It containerizes a site? Sites are jailed in Plesk and things like php.ini aren't modifiable beyond certain ranges.

  10. #10
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    ??? Which is "More important at all"?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyProSys View Post
    How are CloudLinux and Virtuozzo different? Isn't CloudLinux just another virtualization tool?

    Thanks in advance.
    See Virtuozzo based on CloudLinux. Because only Cloudlinux is able to distinguish between the resources of CPU, memory, disk, and many other options that are in Virtuozzo. Write, gave my answer a little explanation in this topic?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by GalaxyData View Post
    See Virtuozzo based on CloudLinux. Because only Cloudlinux is able to distinguish between the resources of CPU, memory, disk, and many other options that are in Virtuozzo. Write, gave my answer a little explanation in this topic?
    You're kidding right?

    Let's try near 8 years apart. Virtuozzo was well before cloudlinux and no - they are nothing alike.

    CloudLinux is based on jailing processes in containers (ie. Jails) has nothing to do with VZ. Never has.

    CloudLinux is not based on VZ either - not certain who you talked to. It's LVE not OpenVZ. In fact, Parallels had the technology before they ever worked with OpenVZ at all. Someone's timelines are messed up.

    Parallels Virtuozzo = SWSoft Virtuozzo - 2001

    CloudLinux - What 2009-2011?

    In fact, CloudLinux really is nothing more than what can be done manually. Maybe a tweak here or there and ease of use. Yet, processes could be jailed, users separated, and limits controlled well before they come along.
    Last edited by PeakVPN-KH; 09-01-2015 at 12:10 AM.

  13. #13
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    Yeah maybe I went a bit wrong. I meant the Pro version of Virtuozzo 6. For all nodes we have now installed

    cat /etc/redhat-release

    CloudLinux Server release 6.6 (Leonid Kizim)

    Now we are waiting for version of Virtuozzo 7. More detail on the website https://openvz.org/Virtuozzo_7_Techn...w_-_Containers

  14. #14
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    Still Virtuozzo has nothing to do with CloudLinux. CloudLinux barely does anything with a VZ node. There is nothing to do. The containment of the virtualization does all the work.

    I don't think you understand... Or maybe I simply do not understand what you're saying.

    But VZ is Ploop file systems, it has containers of its own, the management tools are already there.

    If anything CloudLinux might set a limit on utilization for the host node but that still can be done with VZ.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiberPeer View Post
    Still Virtuozzo has nothing to do with CloudLinux. CloudLinux barely does anything with a VZ node. There is nothing to do. The containment of the virtualization does all the work.

    I don't think you understand... Or maybe I simply do not understand what you're saying.

    But VZ is Ploop file systems, it has containers of its own, the management tools are already there.

    If anything CloudLinux might set a limit on utilization for the host node but that still can be done with VZ.
    You sure aren't talking to me, the OP, because I haven't been saying anything. I only asked what Cloud Linux is. Umm, who are you arguing with? Maybe you could quote who you are referring to?

  16. #16
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    Hmm. Did you not read the thread?

    GalaxyData was who I was talking to that time - you know the guy directly before my post.

    But yes to the OP: CloudLinux is LVE's made easy. That's it - they jail processes and/or set limitations on processes. As in a container "effect" I wouldn't call it complete containers because there is a lot that still depends heavily on the host node. It's incredibly similar to Linux VServer which was developed years before. That would be my best recommendation is to google Linux VServer and look at it's information. LVE is just a dumbed down configuration - easier with less configuration, specifically targeting web servers or forward facing systems.

    Virtuozzo is completely different. I can go into more detail but I'm assuming maybe that's what you were looking for?
    Last edited by PeakVPN-KH; 09-02-2015 at 03:36 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiberPeer View Post
    Still Virtuozzo has nothing to do with CloudLinux. CloudLinux barely does anything with a VZ node. There is nothing to do. The containment of the virtualization does all the work.

    I don't think you understand... Or maybe I simply do not understand what you're saying.

    But VZ is Ploop file systems, it has containers of its own, the management tools are already there.

    If anything CloudLinux might set a limit on utilization for the host node but that still can be done with VZ.
    And one more thing. Why do so many "discussions" have to turn into "I know more than you do..." peeing contests instead of polite discussions? If the other person doesn't quite understand help him learn. But comments like

    Quote Originally Posted by FiberPeer View Post
    I don't think you understand... Or maybe I simply do not understand what you're saying.
    are just rude and not really civil. It makes many users not want to ask or answer questions when one can expect a confrontation. I'm a ham radio operator and we have Elmers - teachers. These are people that are used to people with their heads somewhere that they shouldn't be and they try to teach them anyway. In this day of anonymous interactions over the internet where people aren't F2F I wonder where basic politeness has gone. At this poi9nt i am sorry I ever asked the question. Watchg. You'll slam me for voicing this opinion.

    I am simply suggesting that a more civilized tone would be helpful. I knew that Cloud Linux and Virtuozzo had to be different but didn't know how - and still don't know how. But I also knew from experience the genesis of OpenVZ and Virtuozzo. I have used Virtuozzo since 2007. Virtuozzo first hit the streets in about 2000 and OpenVZ in 2008. OpenVZ has become the test bed for Virtuozzo. You will find the same administrators on OpenVZ's forums as the Odin forums. I don't know the subtle differences but OpenVZ and VZ are essentially one in the same at this point. Regardless of the dates OpenVZ is said to be the basis of Virtuozzo. Source: https://openvz.org/Main_Page

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyProSys View Post
    And one more thing. Why do so many "discussions" have to turn into "I know more than you do..." peeing contests instead of polite discussions? If the other person doesn't quite understand help him learn. But comments like



    are just rude and not really civil. It makes many users not want to ask or answer questions when one can expect a confrontation. I'm a ham radio operator and we have Elmers - teachers. These are people that are used to people with their heads somewhere that they shouldn't be and they try to teach them anyway. In this day of anonymous interactions over the internet where people aren't F2F I wonder where basic politeness has gone. At this poi9nt i am sorry I ever asked the question. Watchg. You'll slam me for voicing this opinion.

    I am simply suggesting that a more civilized tone would be helpful. I knew that Cloud Linux and Virtuozzo had to be different but didn't know how - and still don't know how. But I also knew from experience the genesis of OpenVZ and Virtuozzo. I have used Virtuozzo since 2007. Virtuozzo first hit the streets in about 2000 and OpenVZ in 2008. OpenVZ has become the test bed for Virtuozzo. You will find the same administrators on OpenVZ's forums as the Odin forums. I don't know the subtle differences but OpenVZ and VZ are essentially one in the same at this point. Regardless of the dates OpenVZ is said to be the basis of Virtuozzo. Source: https://openvz.org/Main_Page
    Please review my edited comment. I had no intention of coming off that way.

    If you know about VZ then OpenVZ is the exact same give or take 1-2 things. Parallels has in the past used OpenVZ as its test bed. The issue that most don't understand is that Virtuozzo provided support to people using their product. The cost was incredibly small in comparison to say Red Hat's fees. They do the same thing with Fedora, so it's not uncommon.

    The Parallels version included specific tools, an unlimited SAN/NAS file system, (which is/was worth the fee), and support/diagnostics.

    OpenVZ is community supported and therefore did not get support from Parallels (Odin). They had a couple of the tools but none were updated to the public since like 05-07. Parallels provided much newer versions.

    CloudLinux has been explained to death. Please review the previous comments.

    Tools like: http://download.swsoft.com/pvc/47/lin/docs/en/VzLinuxReference/363.htm

    Some were ported or released for public consumption in 07. Have not seen any real update since then.

    The file system which was worth the licensing in itself:https://openvz.org/Virtuozzo_Storage

    That file system includes a lot of the features which OpenVZ missed out on.
    Last edited by PeakVPN-KH; 09-02-2015 at 03:50 PM.

  19. #19
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    But you ARE coming across that way. Your message gets lost in what comes across as a bad attitude. Rather than argue the point maybe learn from it? Be a resource to others that is respected. You appear to have knowledge that I can appreciate but as I said as expected now you are attacking me as if I am an idiot that needs attacking. No one needs to be attacked.

    1. I fully understand VZ and OpenVZ. Your condescending comments to help me in any way.
    2. Cloud Linux has NOT been explained in any detail. All that's been said is that it isn't the same as VZ.
    3. About the only thing you've said is that many of the features of Cloud Linux, like jailing, can be done manually. That was the same thing I said when first offered CL. I come from Ensim - a jailed environment very much like Plesk's chrooted environment.

    Can we drop the unnecessary attacks on condescending remarks and try to actually explain on a more detailed level what CL actually is? We aren't getting anywhere this way. If not I'll just move on. I've been a host for 16 years - like I said, Ensim and before that Cobalt. Have you used Cobalt? I still have the original servers.

    Be a teacher! The best teacher's I've ever had were friendly, open, and willing to tell me politely that I was incorrect without making me feel stupid for asking a question. What kind of teacher would you like to be?

  20. #20
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    I've got to jump on a conference call any minute but it disheartens me when any WHTer feels like their questions aren't valid.

    For the record, My RaQ2 still works as of exactly a year ago. Forgot the part where CobaltLinux allowed recursion by default, and I shut it off after the last reflection attack.
    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1398667

    Someone once asked if I'd make them a CobaltLinux OVZ template.... yes really.

    Okay, now where were we again?
    Oh, right. And of course my phone is ringing, so I'll do my best to multitask.
    Apologies if I trail off or answer something earlier.

    Still Virtuozzo has nothing to do with CloudLinux. CloudLinux barely does anything with a VZ node.
    That would be at least partially correct if not for the fact that OpenVZ 7's baremetal OS is based on CloudLinux (which, as was mentioned, uses modified UBCs params to limit LVEs), VZ7 It also phases out UBC in favor of cgroups and namespaces, and memcg is coming in to replace everything we've come to know about mem'ry.

    CloudLinux also limits physical and virtual memory using modified UBC parameters. Not all of them as FiberPeer mentioned, but (physpages, vmguarpages (http://docs.cloudlinux.com/memory_limits.html), numproc, http://docs.cloudlinux.com/index.htm...ses_limit.html) iolimit, iops, and even refer to LVEs as "containers" in certain help docs. Assuming that people reading this recall the days of old when containers were known as Virtual Environments, adding "lightweight" to the title and using the same technology for shared hosting isn't such a long walk after all, is it?

    Code:
    [    0.671263] - User ID: Red Hat Enterprise Linux Driver Update Program <secalert@redhat.com>
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.672074] - Added public key 86270BD1D73862D7
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.672510] - User ID: Parallels, Inc. (Kernel Module GPG key)
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.673025] Block layer SCSI generic (bsg) driver version 0.4 loaded (major 251)
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.674444] io scheduler noop registered
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.674857] io scheduler anticipatory registered
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.675298] io scheduler deadline registered
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.675780] io scheduler cfq registered (default)
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.676296] pci_hotplug: PCI Hot Plug PCI Core version: 0.5
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.676769] pciehp: PCI Express Hot Plug Controller Driver version: 0.4
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.677266] acpiphp: ACPI Hot Plug PCI Controller Driver version: 0.5
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.809383] cpuidle: using governor ladder
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.809913] cpuidle: using governor menu
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.810422] EFI Variables Facility v0.08 2004-May-17
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.811320] usbcore: registered new interface driver hiddev
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.811849] usbcore: registered new interface driver usbhid
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.812396] usbhid: v2.6:USB HID core driver
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.812981] TCP cubic registered
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.813484] Initializing XFRM netlink socket
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.814001] NET: Registered protocol family 17
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.819268] Dcache charge unit 924
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.910120] registered taskstats version 1
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.914569] rtc_cmos 00:01: setting system clock to 2014-01-15 08:29:52 UTC (1389774592)
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.915419] Initalizing network drop monitor service
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.915902] Freeing unused kernel memory: 1328k freed
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.916458] Write protecting the kernel read-only data: 10240k
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.917209] Freeing unused kernel memory: 860k freed
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.917864] Freeing unused kernel memory: 1660k freed
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.925405] dracut: dracut-004-336.el6_5.2
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    0.930220] udev: starting version 147
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    1.040937] dracut: Starting plymouth daemon
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    1.132111] usb 1-1: new full speed USB device number 2 using uhci_hcd
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    1.656057] Refined TSC clocksource calibration: 3292.375 MHz.
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    1.873617] EXT4-fs (vda2): INFO: recovery required on readonly filesystem
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    1.874203] EXT4-fs (vda2): write access will be enabled during recovery
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    2.018722] EXT4-fs (vda2): recovery complete
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    2.027241] EXT4-fs (vda2): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Opts: 
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    2.164743] dracut: Remounting /dev/disk/by-uuid/b8ee1c9e-0409-4008-9fa0-15c9735ba7dd with -o usrjquota=quota.user,jqfmt=vfsv0,ro
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    2.297625] EXT4-fs (vda2): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Opts: 
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    2.430865] dracut: Mounted root filesystem /dev/vda2
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    2.775378] dracut: /sbin/load_policy: Can't load policy: No such device
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    2.966526] dracut: Switching root
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    4.085183] udev: starting version 147
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    4.350677] sr 1:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg0 type 5
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    4.575883] piix4_smbus 0000:00:01.3: SMBus Host Controller at 0xb100, revision 0
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    4.827194] device-mapper: uevent: version 1.0.3
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    4.827925] device-mapper: ioctl: 4.23.6-ioctl (2012-07-25) initialised: dm-devel@redhat.com
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    5.528314] EXT4-fs (vda1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode. Opts: 
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    8.623480] NET: Registered protocol family 10
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    8.636528] ip6_tables: (C) 2000-2006 Netfilter Core Team
     Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    8.720707] Enabling conntracks and NAT for ve0
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    8.791253] nf_conntrack version 0.5.0 (16384 buckets, 65536 max)
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    8.858319] iolimits: module license 'CloudLinux Commercial License' taints kernel.
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    8.859156] Disabling lock debugging due to kernel taint
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    8.859915] iolimits version 0.1-93.el6
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    8.871667] io_set_limit = ffffffffa01a8820
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    8.872115] io_get_usage = ffffffffa01a8610
    Jan 15 06:30:08 us01 kernel: [    8.873380] lve driver register status 0
    Jan 15 06:30:09 us01 kernel: [   18.009055] tun: Universal TUN/TAP device driver, 1.6
    Jan 15 06:30:09 us01 kernel: [   18.009546] tun: (C) 1999-2004 Max Krasnyansky <maxk@qualcomm.com>
    Jan 15 06:30:57 us01 varnishd[1876]: Platform: Linux,2.6.32-458.23.2.lve1.2.48.el6.x86_64,x86_64,-sfile,-smalloc,-hcritbit
    Jan 15 06:30:57 us01 varnishd[1876]: child (1877) Started
    Jan 15 06:30:57 us01 varnishd[1876]: Child (1877) said Child starts
    Jan 15 06:30:57 us01 varnishd[1876]: Child (1877) said SMF.s0 mmap'ed 1572864000 bytes of 1572864000
    Jan 15 06:30:57 us01 fail2ban.server : INFO   Changed logging target to SYSLOG for Fail2ban v0.8.11
    Jan 15 06:30:57 us01 fail2ban.jail   : INFO   Creating new jail 'ssh-iptables'
    Jan 15 06:30:58 us01 fail2ban.jail   : INFO   Jail 'ssh-iptables' uses pyinotify
    Jan 15 06:30:58 us01 fail2ban.jail   : INFO   Initiated 'pyinotify' backend
    Jan 15 06:30:58 us01 fail2ban.filter : INFO   Added logfile = /var/log/secure
    Jan 15 06:30:58 us01 fail2ban.filter : INFO   Set maxRetry = 5
    Jan 15 06:30:58 us01 fail2ban.filter : INFO   Set findtime = 600
    Jan 15 06:30:58 us01 fail2ban.actions: INFO   Set banTime = 600
    Jan 15 06:30:58 us01 fail2ban.jail   : INFO   Jail 'ssh-iptables' started
    Jan 15 06:30:58 us01 kernel: [   66.771098] ip_tables: (C) 2000-2006 Netfilter Core Team
    Jan 15 06:31:06 us01 rhnsd[2563]: Red Hat Network Services Daemon starting up, check in interval 240 minutes.
    Jan 14 22:31:22 us01 kernel: [   79.092649] hrtimer: interrupt took 2664381 ns
    Jan 14 22:31:23 us01 kernel: [   79.910823] Fatal resource shortage: privvmpages, UB 627.
    Jan 14 22:31:23 us01 kernel: [   79.911036] Fatal resource shortage: privvmpages, UB 627.
    Jan 14 22:31:23 us01 kernel: [   79.911242] Fatal resource shortage: privvmpages, UB 627.
    Jan 14 22:31:23 us01 kernel: [   79.912705] Fatal resource shortage: privvmpages, UB 627.
    Igor & CloudLinux has a pretty long-standing relationship with Odin/OVZ. Pretty sure that's how KernelCare got security updates out days before they were published. Don't know how deep it goes, but I wasn't at all shocked to learn that CloudLinux was the core of the distro, especially since UBC/VSwap/VZFS are being retired with VZ6.

    As far as I know, CL was not designed for Plesk but that may have changed.
    If Kir was still the OpenVZ project manager I'd have tons of documentation.
    Or pull the ISO down from my mirror and spool a KVM. http://openvz.m1jax.jetfirenetworks.com

    Push comes to shove, I think the only thing separating the two is the need for CL to have it's own kernel. The best I can describe it, in a single sentence, is that CloudLinux, in a lot of ways, is like OpenVZ for shared hosting.

    I probably repeated myself about 50 times while I was on the phone, but I sure hope it sparked more questions or thought. If you got nothing from this, we can always stick to Cobalt.


    JE


    Quote Originally Posted by EasyProSys View Post
    But you ARE coming across that way. Your message gets lost in what comes across as a bad attitude. Rather than argue the point maybe learn from it? Be a resource to others that is respected. You appear to have knowledge that I can appreciate but as I said as expected now you are attacking me as if I am an idiot that needs attacking. No one needs to be attacked.

    1. I fully understand VZ and OpenVZ. Your condescending comments to help me in any way.
    2. Cloud Linux has NOT been explained in any detail. All that's been said is that it isn't the same as VZ.
    3. About the only thing you've said is that many of the features of Cloud Linux, like jailing, can be done manually. That was the same thing I said when first offered CL. I come from Ensim - a jailed environment very much like Plesk's chrooted environment.

    Can we drop the unnecessary attacks on condescending remarks and try to actually explain on a more detailed level what CL actually is? We aren't getting anywhere this way. If not I'll just move on. I've been a host for 16 years - like I said, Ensim and before that Cobalt. Have you used Cobalt? I still have the original servers.

    Be a teacher! The best teacher's I've ever had were friendly, open, and willing to tell me politely that I was incorrect without making me feel stupid for asking a question. What kind of teacher would you like to be?

  21. #21
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyProSys View Post
    But you ARE coming across that way. Your message gets lost in what comes across as a bad attitude. Rather than argue the point maybe learn from it? Be a resource to others that is respected. You appear to have knowledge that I can appreciate but as I said as expected now you are attacking me as if I am an idiot that needs attacking. No one needs to be attacked.

    1. I fully understand VZ and OpenVZ. Your condescending comments to help me in any way.
    2. Cloud Linux has NOT been explained in any detail. All that's been said is that it isn't the same as VZ.
    3. About the only thing you've said is that many of the features of Cloud Linux, like jailing, can be done manually. That was the same thing I said when first offered CL. I come from Ensim - a jailed environment very much like Plesk's chrooted environment.

    Can we drop the unnecessary attacks on condescending remarks and try to actually explain on a more detailed level what CL actually is? We aren't getting anywhere this way. If not I'll just move on. I've been a host for 16 years - like I said, Ensim and before that Cobalt. Have you used Cobalt? I still have the original servers.

    Be a teacher! The best teacher's I've ever had were friendly, open, and willing to tell me politely that I was incorrect without making me feel stupid for asking a question. What kind of teacher would you like to be?
    I apologized and still you continue to act like I'm attacking you. This thread got way off topic and we need to calm down. I have used Cobalt still have a couple sitting in my garage. I do not use them now... But I have.

    I have to say that I believe you just got your answer in the previous post. I was never trying to make you feel stupid. Honestly, any hostility I had was not towards the OP - you. It was the thread of misinformation. I'll be happy to talk about Cobalt as well love my little blue boxes - which is why I still have them - despite my wife staying on me to sell them or "throw them out".

    Anyway... If you do have a specific question about something I'll be happy to help.

    John: Excellent answer by the way.
    Last edited by PeakVPN-KH; 09-02-2015 at 08:42 PM.

  23. #23
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    Thank you John for an excellent answer! Someone actually remembers the Cobalt servers! Awesome! I still have a stack of them. I also have a stack of retired Virtuozzo 3 servers that called a container a VE as you described.

    I am in the process of switching to cPanel. Plesk is an excellent product and I actually prefer it over cPanel. But customers have come to ask for cPanel. The cPanel menus are bloated and strip out all of the features to become separate actions, apparently to make cPanel look more powerful. That's all I can think. Plesk as you know groups commands like turning on Spamassassin on inside the create email account option. Plesk to me is therefore easier. I only wish customers agreed because we've spent thousands on it.

    But now we're adding cPanel and our new license provider is recommending Cloud Linux. I know nothing of it or why the need. I don't expect that it has anything to do with Plesk but I am told - sort of but not definitively - that it replaces Virtuozzo. Moreover, it does not allow for the creation of containers, meaning more lesser powered servers. I understand the changes in Virtuozzo and OpenVZ and yes, we all know Igor :-)

    So where does this leave us with Cloud Linux? I am told that it allows more control over individual web sites, like taming a site that is a resource hog. In 16 years we've never needed anything more than a Sys Admin to resolve the infrequent resource hog. It is my hope to learn what Cloud Linux is all abut and why I need to buy it for each server. I've grown accustomed to sales people trying to push things on me and even they can't tell me what Cloud Linux does. "Just buy it and someone in Technical Support can tell you ow to use it." Really? That sounds like a compelling reason not to buy it. What if I really need it?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyProSys View Post
    Thank you John for an excellent answer! Someone actually remembers the Cobalt servers! Awesome! I still have a stack of them. I also have a stack of retired Virtuozzo 3 servers that called a container a VE as you described.

    I am in the process of switching to cPanel. Plesk is an excellent product and I actually prefer it over cPanel. But customers have come to ask for cPanel. The cPanel menus are bloated and strip out all of the features to become separate actions, apparently to make cPanel look more powerful. That's all I can think. Plesk as you know groups commands like turning on Spamassassin on inside the create email account option. Plesk to me is therefore easier. I only wish customers agreed because we've spent thousands on it.

    But now we're adding cPanel and our new license provider is recommending Cloud Linux. I know nothing of it or why the need. I don't expect that it has anything to do with Plesk but I am told - sort of but not definitively - that it replaces Virtuozzo. Moreover, it does not allow for the creation of containers, meaning more lesser powered servers. I understand the changes in Virtuozzo and OpenVZ and yes, we all know Igor :-)

    So where does this leave us with Cloud Linux? I am told that it allows more control over individual web sites, like taming a site that is a resource hog. In 16 years we've never needed anything more than a Sys Admin to resolve the infrequent resource hog. It is my hope to learn what Cloud Linux is all abut and why I need to buy it for each server. I've grown accustomed to sales people trying to push things on me and even they can't tell me what Cloud Linux does. "Just buy it and someone in Technical Support can tell you ow to use it." Really? That sounds like a compelling reason not to buy it. What if I really need it?
    I will just put in my two cents on that as well.

    Plesk is awesome - I also prefer it to cPanel and cPanel's package management. Honestly, we had cPanel on FreeBSD back when it was offered and it was a nightmare then, better now with CentOS but still not the simplest thing when you run into a problem. We commonly find ourselves googling something since support is ridiculous.

    But! It's what the customers want... I had been playing with VestaCP and really liked DirectAdmin but again - customers.

    My personal opinion is that CloudLinux is an add-on they want to throw in on anything. Most people who end up with it installed never touch anything with it. I have no doubt that many hosts likely use it but what we have found is simply fraud checking sales. As dumb as that sounds but 95% of every utilization problem is a fraudulent user. The other 5% either have too much of a website or simply have a burst in traffic that will correct itself.

    In either case, only one type of customer is really left to shared hosting. That's the user with the burst in traffic. Most times we can see when someone has a website that should not be on the cheapest plan available.

    We also use LiteSpeed on our shared hosting environment. We could use nginx or lighttpd (even Apache of course) but it comes back to the fact we are not managing one server, it's many. So we look to the ease of use but moderate to high performance. That being LiteSpeed.

    Now the reason I mention LiteSpeed is it's jailed pretty much automatically. Each individual user can have their settings and limits adjusted.

    We have honestly never had a need for CloudLinux except for testing it.

  25. #25
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    I still don't know what cloud Linux does as far as features but you've pretty much helped me figure out that I don't need to spend money on it. It seems that everyone is in my back pocket wanting - demanding - a piece of my pie. I used to love DemoDemo tutorials until the other day when I noticed that key features have been pulled out and made into separate tutorials. Features like File Manager and Email. My cost went from a couple hundred to $1300! I wrote to Dino (I think his name was Dino but I've grown older and forget things,) and someone named Robert replied very defensively that he needed to be a viable business and that the hosting market is too small to make a living. Well, I guess your product should have remained a part-time gig because I am not paying $1300. I further pointed out that only the big companies could afford his tutorials. He said that he had "requests" that File Manager" be removed and made a separate series. Really? There aren't that many features! There used to be an end-user, reseller, and administrator series. Now there's a crap load of series at $90 a pop. Too much Robert! Respectfully, a full time job might be in order. But you're pricing yourself out of the market. Plesk and cPanel provide tutorials. My point is that everyone is in my back pocket.

    I am glad to read that someone else agrees with me about Plesk. It IS a much better application. But like Virtuozzo its weak link is terrible support. They don't speak English well and simple issues take days to resolve. I've learned to Google and use AtomicTurtle. They are great over there!

    Yes, we're somewhat off topic at this point but as I see it we're smoking a peace pipe :-)

    You mention that you use Lightspeed. I've never used anything more than Apache as it comes. I install CentOS (current) and then Virtuozzo that I have paid for for years. I have just switched to OPZ because again I am tired of paying. I own life time licenses that they keep finding ways to nullify. At any rate, I install Plesk inside of a container. On a standard 32GB dual Intel proc with RAID I can easily run two virtual servers. If there is a failure I restart the container rather than reboot the hardware. That has saved a small fortune in power supplies. But how would Lightspeed help me? I'm curious now. I don't know a lot of what you power geeks ( :-) ) know.

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