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Thread: Cancelling OVH

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    45

    Cancelling OVH

    Hi

    I have been an OVH customer for more than five years.
    A month ago I bought a new Kimsufi server and asked them to add it to my existing account (for some reason I could not buy it in first place with my account and created an ad-hoc, in my name too). They said it was, well, not possible.
    I asked to cancel, please, I did not intend to manage a separate account. "Not possible to cancel, you have signed up for "immediate provision", Code Napoleon, etc"
    I said I do not need it and will not be paying. They replied they would ask collection agency (wtf?)

    Now, why on Earth this escalation? I moved now to another datacenter which is giving me btw better connectivity, but smth is seriously wrong with the way OVH attract and keep their customers. No new server, no old customer, and no money, of course.

  2. #2
    Have you signed any paper contact with them? This situation looks at least strange. I think you need to re check everything in order to make sure they will no longer disturb you about the same. As for me this issue remains unsolved (I believe they think so).
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    No paper contract, usual online signup (in French). I was angry anough to change my bank card details (and the time was almost up to do it anyway) so they are not going to get a penny from me. I would not expect any sane person to start anything 8EUR worth against a non-EU resident, but we shall see of course. They lost more from losing their customer I guess

  4. #4
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    Sounds like someone is hungry for money, its only a matter of time my friends...

  5. #5
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    Did you just ask for the server to be canceled or did you also ask for a refund? Dedicated providers do not offer refunds.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
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    88
    I'm sorry you had such a bad experience. I personally like to have any type of agreement in writing because it's important to protect myself at all times (unfortunately, these are the times we live in). It seems like you have taken steps to protect yourself as much as possible in this particular incident and I thank you for sharing, it's good to know and watch out for things like this.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
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    If they do not offer refunds, how they works with chargeback?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
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    2 sides to every story.

    What do you mean by you created an ad-hoc? Do you mean you were unable to buy with your own email so you created a 2nd email and ordered from there, then tried to merge with first account?

    Were I a provider I would find that strange and probably say no you can't without some a) confirmation from the other account b) looking into why you were unable to order (bad IP, your first account in delinquency...). Has to be more to the story.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Netherlands
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    When you buy a server, during the order you accept their terms and your contract (which states no refund), also Kimsufi is a separate entity, so you can't put your server from one legal entity into another legal entity. It would be like asking softlayer to put a rackspace server into their account.

    Also the kimsufi server is so cheap, that you pay the server for 1 month, if you don't want it, you stop paying for it :-) It's really that simple and cheap.
    Hosting4Real - European (NL/FR) High Performance Web Hosting

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    45
    To clarify: they do not charge you for the new server, you are supposed to pay later, so the issue was about payment, not a refund. Ad hoc account means “on the go”. As I was unable to buy with my existing OVH account, I created a new account quick. My other (main) OVH account has kimsufi in it too (isgoenoeg, to be precise, it is a NL account), have no idea what legal entities and machinery are behind both that made transfer impossible. Both accounts in my name. Requests to transfer were sent to both of them.
    Later story: I am finishing up everything I have payed for with OVH and happily moving to another provider: all is set up.
    Yes, it was cheap

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lithuania
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    And what do you expect from company with that server prices? They do not care...

    Low server ( service ) prices = low cost or non professional or very low amount of employees. What they should do? Probably they do not have time to insight into your problem.

    I'm sorry, but it is true and it is happening not only with hosting companies. Just look around.
    Affordable custom Single/DUAL - Intel/AMD CPU servers EU | Configure
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    45
    I do not care, it is their business they know what they are doing.

    I am surprised to actually get more from moving from dedi to a vps now. Faster processor, better hdd rates (although the size is smaller for comparable price), best pings I have ever seen (again, with lower traffic included, but I have never been a traffic hog anyway), XEN virtualization thus I get any kernel modules I want, and .... what seems to be pretty much a 24h support -- all for a smaller price! Pretty much happy

  13. #13
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by andmed View Post
    I do not care, it is their business they know what they are doing.

    I am surprised to actually get more from moving from dedi to a vps now. Faster processor, better hdd rates (although the size is smaller for comparable price), best pings I have ever seen (again, with lower traffic included, but I have never been a traffic hog anyway), XEN virtualization thus I get any kernel modules I want, and .... what seems to be pretty much a 24h support -- all for a smaller price! Pretty much happy
    So, where did you move?

    Specially 4 U
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    45
    It is in Frankfurt, near DE-CIX. I have spent about half a day browsing webforums to find the one I liked most. Anyone can do the same, it is easy.
    Now would not accept anything more than 2ms )))))

    root:~# ping -c 4 nyse.com
    PING nyse.com (104.16.1.25) 56(84) bytes of data.
    64 bytes from 104.16.1.25: icmp_seq=2 ttl=59 time=0.601 ms
    64 bytes from 104.16.1.25: icmp_seq=3 ttl=59 time=0.568 ms
    64 bytes from 104.16.1.25: icmp_seq=4 ttl=59 time=0.578 ms

    --- nyse.com ping statistics ---
    4 packets transmitted, 3 received, 25% packet loss, time 3002ms
    rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.568/0.582/0.601/0.024 ms

    root:~# ping -c 4 4.2.2.2
    PING 4.2.2.2 (4.2.2.2) 56(84) bytes of data.
    64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=0.649 ms
    64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=0.602 ms
    64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=60 time=0.566 ms
    64 bytes from 4.2.2.2: icmp_seq=4 ttl=60 time=0.656 ms

    --- 4.2.2.2 ping statistics ---
    4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 2997ms
    rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.566/0.618/0.656/0.040 ms

    root:~# ping -c 4 google.com
    PING google.com (173.194.112.232) 56(84) bytes of data.
    64 bytes from fra02s18-in-f8.1e100.net (173.194.112.232): icmp_seq=1 ttl=58 time=1.04 ms
    64 bytes from fra02s18-in-f8.1e100.net (173.194.112.232): icmp_seq=2 ttl=58 time=1.56 ms
    64 bytes from fra02s18-in-f8.1e100.net (173.194.112.232): icmp_seq=3 ttl=58 time=1.05 ms
    64 bytes from fra02s18-in-f8.1e100.net (173.194.112.232): icmp_seq=4 ttl=58 time=1.07 ms

    --- google.com ping statistics ---
    4 packets transmitted, 4 received, 0% packet loss, time 2998ms
    rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 1.046/1.186/1.569/0.223 ms
    root:~#

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by andmed View Post
    To clarify: they do not charge you for the new server, you are supposed to pay later, so the issue was about payment, not a refund. Ad hoc account means “on the go”. As I was unable to buy with my existing OVH account, I created a new account quick. My other (main) OVH account has kimsufi in it too (isgoenoeg, to be precise, it is a NL account), have no idea what legal entities and machinery are behind both that made transfer impossible. Both accounts in my name. Requests to transfer were sent to both of them.
    Later story: I am finishing up everything I have payed for with OVH and happily moving to another provider: all is set up.
    Yes, it was cheap
    Kimsufi is a separate company from OVH, so you can't buy kimsufi servers under your OVH NIC handle. Even if you have dutch accounts ( happen to have dutch accounts as well ).
    You will simply get a message when you do an order or log into kimsufi that the account ID is invalid.

    So legally they're separate companies, therefore you also receive different invoices and have different account names.
    Hosting4Real - European (NL/FR) High Performance Web Hosting

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    45
    Yes, I wondered a bit why I could not buy a new isgoenoeg or kimsufi with my dutch account, but asking OVH support did not seem very practical. It is the end of the story in any case and I am happy

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Lima, Peru
    Posts
    63
    Just to explain. Some years ago, KS servers were just the cheap servers from OVH. Apart from the name and specs, there was no difference between KS and OVH servers; all of them were managed from the OVH Manager.

    Last year, OVH guys decided to change that. KS was split as a separate company, SoYouStart (SYS) was created, also as a separate company. The three companies have different support staff and different offers, but all run on the same datacenters, operated by OVH.

    Preior to the change, all OVH & KS accounts were considered as OVH. After the change, each company has it's own user database, so it's not possible to get servers on KS with an OVH account. Also, all the KS servers existing prior to the change are considered OVH servers(with lower specs, but OVH anyway). Even further, new KS servers are totally different from the previous KS offers.

    OVH policy, as well as KS and SYS, require users to pass through an identity validation. They do so for legal responsibility, and also for VAT exemption. As the three companies have separate user databases, validation performes on one of them does not trascends to the others, so existing OVH customers have to validate again if they want to get KS servers. Complicated, can be better, etc,; but that's how it works.

    The other part, about the payment, I don't understand it clearly. The procedure is: 1) Create account. 2) Place the order. 3) Validate the account. 4) Pay 5) Get the server. Also, because of how slow the KS staff is, orders usually expire before they even perform account validation, and the customer have to place the orden again after the account is validated. So I don't see how they can request you to pay if you haven't completed previous steps.

  18. #18
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    Dec 2011
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    Netherlands
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    Quote Originally Posted by alvaroag View Post
    The other part, about the payment, I don't understand it clearly. The procedure is: 1) Create account. 2) Place the order. 3) Validate the account. 4) Pay 5) Get the server. Also, because of how slow the KS staff is, orders usually expire before they even perform account validation, and the customer have to place the orden again after the account is validated. So I don't see how they can request you to pay if you haven't completed previous steps.
    Be aware that not all accounts has to be validated, I have a kimsufi account which wasn't validated at all.
    Hosting4Real - European (NL/FR) High Performance Web Hosting

  19. #19

    lol

    Obviously andmed does not no what he is talking about...

    Ping request time does not prove you have a faster server. Only physical distance between your server's datacenter and the requested target(EI ping google.com) can affect your ping latency.

    I understand you are felling ripped off however, you've been renting a 8 euros dedicated server for several years. I think Kimsufi is getting ripped off here pal

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    45
    Quote Originally Posted by colinok View Post
    Obviously andmed does not no what he is talking about...

    Ping request time does not prove you have a faster server. Only physical distance between your server's datacenter and the requested target(EI ping google.com) can affect your ping latency.

    I understand you are felling ripped off however, you've been renting a 8 euros dedicated server for several years. I think Kimsufi is getting ripped off here pal

    You have messed things up. It is faster server AND better latency what I m getting right now. Server speed because of the processor, latency -- because of the location and that is why vps servers I am testing now are all in Frankfurt as this location is better to me.

    There is a danger with vps -- they can be oversold, but you can figure it out easily after some monitoring.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by andmed View Post
    There is a danger with vps -- they can be oversold, but you can figure it out easily after some monitoring.
    How? You can't really say if a hypervisor overprovision the CPU or memory in the machine, so overselling can happen without you knowing.
    A host can oversell their service if the majority of their customers doesn't max out their resources 24/7 (Which rarely happens by the way).
    There's a lot of hosts that overprovision their CPU and RAM, and they can do it just fine without someone ever noticing.
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  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    45
    Well, it is not foolproof, of course, but there are things to consider:
    1) Technology. Avoid the ones which are easily oversold. I prefer KVM or XEN full virtualizaton
    2) Actual monitoring. I am testing in parallel vps servers from different providers who utilize different AS, so I can compare both the host machine load and the uplink quality. I have setup an hourly script which tests network latency, network bandwidth and hdd throughput. These things are straightforward and easy to monitor. I did not set up cpu intensive tests, but you can have them as well. RAM: did not think about it again, as I do not need it much, but you can look toward “free” command output in conjunction with actual memory use by processes. Analyzing these logs you will give you a fair picture of what you get over time.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by andmed View Post
    Well, it is not foolproof, of course, but there are things to consider:
    1) Technology. Avoid the ones which are easily oversold. I prefer KVM or XEN full virtualizaton
    2) Actual monitoring. I am testing in parallel vps servers from different providers who utilize different AS, so I can compare both the host machine load and the uplink quality. I have setup an hourly script which tests network latency, network bandwidth and hdd throughput. These things are straightforward and easy to monitor. I did not set up cpu intensive tests, but you can have them as well. RAM: did not think about it again, as I do not need it much, but you can look toward “free” command output in conjunction with actual memory use by processes. Analyzing these logs you will give you a fair picture of what you get over time.
    KVM is easily oversold as well.. But anyway:

    Uplink quality:
    - Tells nothing if your hypervisor is oversold, most networks today are oversold anyway, it's quite common that servers in a rack share connectivity, so if the bandwidth is lower doesn't mean that the machine is oversold, but can mean the rack bandwidth is oversold, two different things, and sometimes providers that do not oversell their VPS resources can be located in a datacenter that oversell their capacity.

    HDD throughput - it's vague if it's a good measure, because a lot of things can affect the throughput, you don't have to oversell your hypervisor to suddenly experience bad throughput, also you can oversell your hypervisor and have nice throughput anyway.

    CPU intensive tests, sure you can do those, run on 100% CPU, but if the other machines on the hypervisor is next to idle, you won't experience any issues, therefore overselling can still happen without you knowing.

    You can look at the 'free' command, but since you use full virtualization, it tells you the memory your machine has allocated and what you use, so again, you don't know if your memory is oversold.

    So any of the monitoring above doesn't always prove that your machine is oversold (or not oversold), you as a customer can't really know if it's oversold, except in extreme cases, and you as a customer do not know how much it's oversold. Could be your provider only overprovision their CPUs by 1.2, but it's still 20% more than the actual resources available on the system.

    You might be on a hypervisor which has customers just like me:

    Code:
    [user@random ~]# free -m
                 total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
    Mem:          1877       1592        285         43        105        500
    -/+ buffers/cache:        985        891
    Swap:         2049        101       1948
    [user@random ~]# uptime
     09:12:47 up 39 days, 18:43,  1 user,  load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.03
    I barely use any resources, so other people that runs 100%, might think "Oh, this hypervisor is not oversold", but in fact it might be, but because of customers like me that has a VM running a VPN and simple monitoring software do not consume most of my resources
    Hosting4Real - European (NL/FR) High Performance Web Hosting

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Thats all true. It is not foolproof, just an indication. To give an example: last week I have been testing three different vps from different locations around Frankfurt. I can tell that one of them very often does not perform as it should (and that is by no means a low-end provider). This is an _indicaton_ for me that they largely oversell. So, there is no difficulty to make a choice, again not a guarantee that things won't go wrong in the future with other providers.

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