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  1. #26
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    So.......
    #1: You don't pay your bills
    #2: Your server gets shut off
    #3: You pay your bill to get it turned back on
    #4: You then contact Paypal to dispute the charges

    And you claim H4G is the problem?!?!?!?!?
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  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post
    So.......
    #1: You don't pay your bills
    #2: Your server gets shut off
    #3: You pay your bill to get it turned back on
    #4: You then contact Paypal to dispute the charges

    And you claim H4G is the problem?!?!?!?!?
    Always two sides to a story. When trying to pull a fast one backfires.
    Respectfully,
    Mr. Terrence
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post
    So.......
    #1: You don't pay your bills
    #2: Your server gets shut off
    #3: You pay your bill to get it turned back on
    #4: You then contact Paypal to dispute the charges

    And you claim H4G is the problem?!?!?!?!?
    Yeah, that's clear but what is other side of story?
    WhoAPI - Domain API with WHOIS, blacklists and availability in JSON!
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  4. #29
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    What 'other' side of the story? Really, when it comes down to it, this is about as open and shut as it gets.
    NO company is going to put up with that level of abuse from a customer, and NO company is going to hand back your data once you do a chargeback.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post
    What 'other' side of the story? Really, when it comes down to it, this is about as open and shut as it gets.
    NO company is going to put up with that level of abuse from a customer, and NO company is going to hand back your data once you do a chargeback.
    Open and shut really? Perhaps you need to re read and remind yourself of the facts.

    And clearly NO customer is going to put up with that level of abuse from a service provider....
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    Open and shut really?
    Absolutely...

    Perhaps you need to re read and remind yourself of the facts.
    I have... they are:

    #1: You don't pay your bills
    #2: Your server gets shut off
    #3: You pay your bill to get it turned back on
    #4: You then contact Paypal to dispute the charges
    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    And clearly NO customer is going to put up with that level of abuse from a service provider....
    The provider has done nothing 'abusive' here whatsoever. You, on the other hand, have committed theft and fraud. You were provided with service, had it suspended because you didn't pay (your problem, not the providers), threw a fit , paid, launched a chargeback.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post
    Absolutely...

    Perhaps you need to re read and remind yourself of the facts.
    I have... they are:



    The provider has done nothing 'abusive' here whatsoever. You, on the other hand, have committed theft and fraud. You were provided with service, had it suspended because you didn't pay (your problem, not the providers), threw a fit , paid, launched a chargeback.
    Is that so? Oh really.......
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  8. #33
    OP does not pay bill but still he is eligible to get data by paying some amount of money (If host charge fees for backup)

    Cost of data is priceless
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by DewlanceHosting View Post
    OP does not pay bill but still he is eligible to get data by paying some amount of money (If host charge fees for backup)

    Cost of data is priceless
    I disagree.
    If you dispute payments that were legitimate (basically fraud), you forgo your rights to the data.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DewlanceHosting View Post
    OP does not pay bill but still he is eligible to get data by paying some amount of money (If host charge fees for backup)

    Cost of data is priceless
    Exactly and moreover I did pay and host 4geeks were still trying to over bill me with another invoice....
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeZazz View Post
    I disagree.
    If you dispute payments that were legitimate (basically fraud), you forgo your rights to the data.
    I too disagree. It was not a charge back - a charge back in the UK is going to your credit card providor and claiming fraudulent payments, or poor quality... I did not do that.

    I raised a PayPal dispute... Why did I do that? Quality not as described and duration shorter than paid for. Why did I do that? I had paid a month in advance and did not recieve that month, my data was not restored, host4geeks Kushal was not responding to my emails and support was not in my opinion doing anything other than making excuses. Furthermore the other service was stopped despite being paid for and host4geeks also took mykney the next month till I chased the refund. Also for the record PayPal mostly ruled in host4geeka favour as he provided physical "tracking information" that the item had been posted!!!!


    I've said my piece and so have many others of late here and other places about host4geeks and the similar theme is emerging .... Either a: they have lots of "horrible fraudulent customers" or b: they are not living up to customers expectations.
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  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    I

    I raised a PayPal dispute... Why did I do that? Quality not as described and duration shorter than paid for. Why did I do that? I had paid a month in advance and did not recieve that month, my data was not restored, host4geeks Kushal was not responding to my emails and support was not in my opinion doing anything other than making excuses. Furthermore the other service was stopped despite being paid for and host4geeks also took mykney the next month till I chased the refund. Also for the record PayPal mostly ruled in host4geeka favour as he provided physical "tracking information" that the item had been posted!!!!
    Lies. Lies and more lies. Not sure how long are you going to continue blatantly posting false information. I very accurately told PayPal that it was a webhosting service that was ordered along with complete and full description of the entire case. Further, assuming you have been using PayPal for quite sometime now, you should also know that merchants *cannot* directly charge your PayPal account like they would do with with a credit card. PayPal payments are processed if and only if you have a recurring subscription active. Which you had with us and it was processed, we never charged or billed your account, that is not possible.

    PayPal disputes from the user for terms during which the service was used to its fullest:

    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	26 
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ID:	31837

    My response to PayPal:

    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	26 
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ID:	31838

    I've said my piece and so have many others of late here and other places about host4geeks and the similar theme is emerging
    Yes, 3 separate threads from you all relating to the same case doesn't really establish any theme. As far the other active thread, I am in communication with the OP figuring out what went wrong.
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  13. #38
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  14. #39
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    And here's another theme:

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1288564

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1424532

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1385045

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1449489

    http://ratelobby.com/review/180/host4geeks

    Kushal so, hmm have you returned my data yet? If no,... Why not? Please share.
    No. Your account was terminated and removed from our network due to non-payment of services, absolute violation of our terms of services, fraudulent payment disputes / chargebacks under false pretext.

    I wish you all the best with your new hosting provider and hope they serve you well. I rest my case. Have a good day!
    Last edited by Host4Geeks-Corp; 07-28-2015 at 09:38 AM.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    I too disagree. It was not a charge back - a charge back in the UK is going to your credit card providor and claiming fraudulent payments, or poor quality... I did not do that.

    I raised a PayPal dispute...
    That's exactly what you did here. Just because you don't want to see it as the same thing doesn't mean it's not. This has exactly the same affect. You launched a chargeback... Not only for CURRENT months, but for previous months as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    Quality not as described and duration shorter than paid for.
    Not so much. You went and did a chargeback on previous payments as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Host4Geeks-Kushal View Post
    No. Your account was terminated and removed from our network due to non-payment of services, absolute violation of our terms of services, fraudulent payment disputes / chargebacks under false pretext.
    ^^ this ^^

    When you attempt to defraud a company, as you have here, you're very lucky that you don't end up in court/jail . Your data is done, it's gone. Forget about it. Nobody's ever going to give it back to you
    The reality here is very, very simple. As I said earlier, you didn't pay your bill, service got suspended, you then paid and got it restored, then launched a chargeback, and found yourself right where you are..

    If this is how you do business, then just stop now. NO business is going to do anything any different. It is absolutely, 100% your responsibility to keep up to date with your due dates, invoices, payments and the like, not the provider's
    Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post

    When you attempt to defraud a company, as you have here, you're very lucky that you don't end up in court/jail . Your data is done, it's gone. Forget about it. Nobody's ever going to give it back to you
    The reality here is very, very simple. As I said earlier, you didn't pay your bill, service got suspended, you then paid and got it restored, then launched a chargeback, and found yourself right where you are..

    If this is how you do business, then just stop now. NO business is going to do anything any different. It is absolutely, 100% your responsibility to keep up to date with your due dates, invoices, payments and the like, not the provider's
    So no invoice was sent, no reminder was sent and an invoice was double billed... Yep my responsibility to keep up with that one. You are right I'm so bad... It DID NOT get restored read the facts. So yep sling me in jail for defrauding them... It wasn't charged back... But obvs you know best and we'll I'm just the worst customer ever to expect a service I paid for... Shame on me.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Host4Geeks-Kushal View Post
    And here's another theme:

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1288564

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1424532

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1385045

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1449489

    http://ratelobby.com/review/180/host4geeks



    No. Your account was terminated and removed from our network due to non-payment of services, absolute violation of our terms of services, fraudulent payment disputes / chargebacks under false pretext.

    I wish you all the best with your new hosting provider and hope they serve you well. I rest my case. Have a good day!
    Thanks for showing your true colours Kushal. Outstanding customer service...

    And those reviews some over a year old yep, I agree the service used to be great its just if you read the review I shared from the last couple of months...... Please for the sake of everyone get back to the old days, better service and some respect for your clients and responsibility for your actions.

    Good luck and I wish you well over and out!!
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    So no invoice was sent, no reminder was sent and an invoice was double billed... Yep my responsibility to keep up with that one. You are right I'm so bad... It DID NOT get restored read the facts. So yep sling me in jail for defrauding them... It wasn't charged back... But obvs you know best and we'll I'm just the worst customer ever to expect a service I paid for... Shame on me.
    Do you have any backups that can be restored to another host? (you should)

    I would recommend the above, because all I see (as it already has) is this thread going back and forth continuously similar to what used to be in GVH threads... There's issues here on both ends, and different paths could have been taken on your part and H4G's part.
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  19. #44
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    Stepping in for a point:

    This Jail thing needs to stop. Not paying a bill is not fraud. Neither is double billing or creating a chargeback.

    One other point: Since the beginning, it has been the responsibility of a provider to keep safe data, even when not paid. It is NOT the responsibility of the provider to make a way for the data owner to retrieve data. Hence agreements can get made for retrieval. Neither will always be happy???

    It is a gray area if websites qualify as data. Database's?? Maybe, depends on content.

    Ok, start slugging again.

    added: If I were the host(and I am not in this case), I would have zipped it all up and made it available to the consumer. Time spent arguing is not going to help me at all and time spent by me or my employees can be better used doing something useful that makes real money.
    Last edited by davemason; 07-28-2015 at 12:22 PM.
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemason View Post
    Not paying a bill is not fraud.
    No it's not. It'll just mean that the user gets their service shut off, which is what was done originally

    Quote Originally Posted by davemason View Post
    Neither is double billing or creating a chargeback.
    If the payment method is paypal, there should be no 'double billing' . At least for hosting payments, all payments are pre-authorized by the customer... So, that's all on the customer, not the provider.

    Fraudulently creating a chargeback when services have been used is absolutely, positively illegal. Since customer had already used services and just tried to get money back (ie: not pay for hosting), that's fraudulent and absolutely illegal.
    Quote Originally Posted by davemason View Post
    One other point: Since the beginning, it has been the responsibility of a provider to keep safe data, even when not paid.
    incorrect
    If a customer doesn't pay their bills and their vps gets terminated (not suspended or shut off, terminated), that's on the customer. At that point, no data should ever be expected from the provider.
    We're not talking a few days here... No, we're talking almost a month overdue. the fact that any data was had by the DC at this point is a miracle, and the OP should be thanking them for covering his tail end, instead of trying to fraudulently chargeback previous purchases


    The reality is that h4g probably could have handled things a bit better / faster, but looking at the attitude of the OP in this thread, I'm not sure I would have. This kid is your typical "do it now, now, now, it's all your fault" customer who can't even manage their own paypal account correctly apparently. I mean, ALL of this could have been easily resolved with ZERO issues by managing your paypal account properly.
    Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
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  21. #46
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    Fraudulently creating a chargeback when services have been used is absolutely, positively illegal. Since customer had already used services and just tried to get money back (ie: not pay for hosting), that's fraudulent and absolutely illegal.
    Fraud is a police matter. Creating a chargeback is a civil matter and for the courts to decide. Ask any policeman that is a sergeant or higher. My suggestion is to drop the word "Fraud". I am not arguing with anyone that the bills should have been paid or not.

    incorrect
    If a customer doesn't pay their bills and their vps gets terminated (not suspended or shut off, terminated), that's on the customer. At that point, no data should ever be expected from the provider.
    We're not talking a few days here... No, we're talking almost a month overdue. the fact that any data was had by the DC at this point is a miracle, and the OP should be thanking them for covering his tail end, instead of trying to fraudulently chargeback previous purchases
    I do more database programming than web pages, so to clarify: If I have a client that does not pay me, I shut off the application or delete it from whatever storage it is on. I know from past court cases that I must NOT delete their data. Data is defined as what they entered into the databases. The place where the database is housed may be anywhere. If on my servers, then I just zip it up after removing any custom work done inside. What the client is entitled to is the database and tables with data, not other help. I then hold that for 5 years in storage. Once a track has been made of the download(if on my server), then I can delete it. This keeps me safe. When dealing with large corporate entities, which I often do, You learn real quick or it costs you money.

    Like I said, just trying to help both of you. Not trying to get into your details.

    I currently do a lot of websites for companies. If one did not may me, I would simply copy their site and databases and zip them up. Then I would delete the account. Holding the data in storage for up to 5 years before deletion.
    I also do database applications for fortune 500-100 companies as well as large, medium and small companies.
    Yes, I have a reseller account for some of my work.
    No, I do not run a full hosting company. I do not want those headaches for pennies businesses. You have a very hard job.

    One other thing. I have 4 PayPal accounts for various. I can go in and override the payments scheduled from 25.00 and make it 50.00, but the client gets a notice from PayPal in advance where he can refuse to pay.

    and:: If you decided to sue OP for non payment, you should look at the real costs to do that including court and attorney fees. What will you get if you win? A judgment! What can you do with that? Usually nothing. However, if OP decided to sue you, it might be entirely different. He does have to prove everything to a judge before he gets anything.

    Good Luck to all.
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  22. #47
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    For once twihiting I agree with you:

    "The reality is that h4g probably could have handled things a bit better / faster, but looking at the attitude of the OP in this thread, I'm not sure I would have. This kid is your typical "do it now, now, now, it's all your fault" customer who can't even manage their own paypal account correctly apparently."

    I could perhaps have handled all of this better I never said I didn't make a mistake but after over 14/days of reaching out to h4g via email and waiting for a few sites to be restored on the vpsit felt unreasonable.

    I even offered to just allow me to download the backups which fell on deaf ears and never received a response.

    We all live and learn, and its been a long time at 40/since I was called a Kid.

    I've reached out to Kushal so many times to at least allow me to recover the backups but he didn't then and hasn't now even though he claimed tobe able to still restore the data.

    Sadly the deletion of the other server which had nothing to do with this (the semi dedicated/) thus destroying further sites and my clients sites in my eyes was inexcusable. This was fully paid up and in credit.

    So I took action to provoke a response from Kushal. However still no data despite it being possible for him to return it.

    We live and learn.... I now do regular backups, I now ensure my provider bills me correctly and timely. :-)
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  23. #48
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    IMHO - I feel this thread should be closed. This discussion has turned into a mudslinging match between a host and an irate customer, both of them are not acting professionally. It is clear that the customer needs to move on and he will likely never get his backups. Hopefully both parties learn a lesson about this.

    OP - You should not resort to chargebacks under any circumstance, the second you submit a chargeback for a product that has been delivered, you essentially give your host the "middle finger" and wave all rights to your data. Hopefully you also learned that YOU are responsible for maintaining backups and any loss of data is your fault.

    Host4Geeks - You really need to try to be a bit more professional. We have both been members of WHT for a long time and I (and likely others) have started to notice that you are increasingly becoming more belligerent with customers. All hosts will have complaints and the method used to defuse the situation is a direct sign of your maturity. When you get into shouting matches on public forums, it does not help your public image. I do agree that the customer was in the wrong here but you should have simply explained the facts and dismissed yourself from the thread and show as little as possible. Do not get into shouting matches or do anything to further entice arguments.

    I am reporting this to the mods and hopefully they agree that this thread should be closed
    Keith I Myers
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemason View Post
    Fraud is a police matter.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraud

    In law, fraud is deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain. Fraud is both a civil wrong .......... and a criminal wrong..........[1]
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  25. #50
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    Customers nowadays are spoilt by all this customer protection like chargebacks, refunds etc so no wonder they often choose what they consider the easiest way to solve any issue: Paypal dispute or a cc chargeback.
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