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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
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    35

    Our Experience with Host4Geeks - Review

    I have taken a managed approach to writing this – having written and re-written this post to ensure accuracy. No doubt, Kushal of Host4Geeks will likely respond with his usual “it’s not our fault” it’s the customers fault. (Please see some of the other responses from Host4geeks on here when people complain).

    At the outset we were quite impressed by Kushal. We had suffered a few outages with our previous hosting supplier and Kushal was quick to recommend his service to us on twitter. We were persuaded by his charm and offer of a discount on his managed VPS.
    We then signed up for two accounts in July 2013, a VPS and a Semi-dedicated server. All seemed well. However had we known what we know now about how quickly the “outstanding customer care” “rockstar support” “support that cares” could change we would never have entrusted our data to this company.

    The first mishap was at the start of December 2014. We raised a support query as none of the sites on our semi-dedicated server were working – almost as if all the data was gone. Support responded with this:

    We couldn't find any index files such as index.php or index.html and the other necessary files in your account. This is why the domain is showing the index page when you are loading the sites.
    Let us know if you have made any changes in your account.


    I went back explaining that did not answer my question, and the ticket was “escalated to management” we received this response from Kushal:

    “As per our backup policy, we take daily backups and each backup is stored for 7 days at any point of time, we are able to restore backups for up to the last 7 days. The migration was completed properly however, since it is a large scale operation and involves moving thousands of websites, we were aware that a few websites may have problems and for the same reason, we keep the old backups and old server up for a longer duration of time. Post migration a few websites (less than 10) had some problem or the other and we re-migrated them.

    There were two possibilities for the data to re-migrated:

    1. Till the old server was available, which was supposed to be 48 hours after migration as we mentioned a couple of times via emails sent out to all clients involved in this migration.
    2. Till the old backups were available, i.e 7 days after migration.

    Unfortunately, you have contacted us after both the time windows. At this moment, we will only be able to restore any backup that you or your client may have had.”
    Seems I had missed the emails stating they were migrating the server and the timeframes. I have one email dated 13 November 2014 which states the migration was taking place, but nothing stating we had 48 hours – aside from that is it really best practice to give a client just 48 hours warning of such a major change? It resulted in us losing all of the sites we had built up over around 5 years and ultimately loss of revenue from those sites. The compensation from Host4geeks? One months refund a mere $14. Obviously this was not Host4geeks fault and entirely mine…..

    All seemed calm until I made the error of asking Host4geeks to change my billing date in April, to the end of the month. This seemed ok, until it became evident that rather than cancelling an invoice and creating a new one, Host4geeks left one invoice open and created an extra invoice, meaning my account appeared to be in significant arrears. We duly paid one of the invoices on time.
    On the 15 May, Kushal sends this email:

    “As per our records we found that you have an outstanding invoice that is overdue. When can we expect payment for this?”
    My response to Kushal:

    “Wasn't that supserceded by the other invoice ? Or do I need to pay twice for a month?”
    The one line response via email from Kushal was:
    “Apologies, do you have a ticket ID for reference?”
    Funnily enough, despite raising this again in a subsequent ticket in June(118354) stating it was irrelevant that ticket was never answered and in fact closed at Host4Geek’s end. The bill was never closed down and was still in dispute.

    Roll on June, invoice still not been cancelled, so showing at the end of the month we were in significant arrears, however no reminders despite us being a few days late with the other invoice.
    Our next interaction with Host4geeks was this email in June:

    “We are sorry to inform you that your Account has been suspended.
    The details of this suspension are below:
    Product/Service: Managed VPS 4 (Los Angeles, CA)
    Domain: server1.
    Amount: $58.95 USD
    Due Date: 05/28/2015
    Suspension Reason: Overdue on Payment

    The most common reason for suspension is overdue invoices. Please login to your Backyard and check if you have any overdue invoice, in case you do, please make the necessary payment immediately to resume your services.”
    I made an immediate payment as requested, (this was the first reminder of a late payment) and despite the email stating “please make the necessary payment immediately to resume your services.” The services were not resumed.

    I raised a query with support, which despite waiting for 10 hours, no action seemed to be taken. I then also emailed Kushal about this with this emails

    “Hi Kushal
    Trust you are well.
    I have raised a couple of tickets over 10 hrs ago. Our site s have been down for almost 24 hrs. It was a billing issue which we resolved yesterday (12/hrs ago).
    This is not what usually happens with host4geeks. Could you come back toe please with when we can expect a response from tech support and our sites back online.
    As ever, thanks”
    To this date have not had a response to that specific email or subsequent other emails sent to him about this. We therefore had no choice but to take our issues to Twitter. Yes they were to the point, but so were those from Host4geeks including:

    "Your entire VPS is a long and time consuming process and we usually charge a re-connection fee for the labor....." and "We are unable to restore terminated services at this moment."

    We were told that the “restoration of the VPS was underway”, in fact I quote the support ticket (again screenshots can be provided) in which Kushal clearly states:

    “Helloe, The restoration will be done in the next 6 hours Regards, Kushal”
    Sadly after 6, hours, 10, hours, 24 hours it still was not done. We had a response after asking from support saying

    “Sorry for the delay, We will restore backup ASAP and will get back to you”
    We received emails during the first week including:
    “Sorry for the delay, we are facing some issues while restoring vps, we are forwarded this ticket to our senior admin. He is working on this”
    To a further message from Kushal a couple of days later in a support ticket stating:
    “Your VPS has been created and the email with the details have been sent to you. If you have backups for your websites we can restore them for you. We are unable to do restores from our end at this moment.”
    We then said this was not acceptable, the delay was costing us our business. We sent a tweet, and 16 hours later sent a tweet…. Which resulted in this response from Kushal:

    “Hello,

    Backups are terminated along with the service and if you are going to refer to the TOS trying to shift the blame to us, I would also want to point you to the line where it says - "Our backups are strictly for our purposes only" and not to restore your data due to you not paying your bills on time.

    You were not double billed, you had two different recurring subscriptions setup, we do not store or process payments ourselves and hence cannot charge your card on demand.

    Account terminations are not handled manually they are automated and we give enough time to rectify this, it is your responsibility to pay your bills on time and not for us to run behind you asking to be paid.

    Despite of all this, we were trying to help you as a courtesy by trying to restore your data out of no fault of ours but I was informed of your continuous pestering over twitter all trying to put false blame on us. We will not accept this.

    We may still try to do it, but as very clearly stated there would be no ETA as restoring data from backups into a new VPS is not the easiest and simplest of things. It can take days. If you are willing to wait patiently then we may give it a shot again, else I will have to either provision a new VPS and leave it at that, or refund your last payment, as your services have been terminated.”
    I sent a message via support back to Kushal, saying this was unacceptable, that I was not his enemy but a customer. Continual "pesterering over twitter - funny as there were 16 hours between the tweets! Also saying that he “might still try” neither helped his business nor mine, I received this response:

    “I am not someone who would ever try to blame the customer, our entire company is built on the culture where in we go above and beyond the rules and regulations just to help our customers. Please understand the scenario, you have asked me maybe thrice or more asking for an ETA, I have repeatedly said that we cannot provide an ETA in these situations, we are working and will let you know once it is completed there is nothing to update the ticket with in the interim. In the middle of all the tickets from other customers and regular tasks we have been working hard trying to recover your data from our backups and this is not a simple two-click process. Understand that this is a new VPS and we are essentially trying to restore the data into a whole new environment and while we are at it we get numerous tweets on twitter that puts a bad image of our company, now that is not what your intentions may be but that is what is happening, a bad image of our company is being painted even though we are trying to help you.

    Let me tell you that there would be very few companies that would go out and do an account restore for an account terminated due to non-payment.

    I am resuming our operations to try and restore your data, the next update to this ticket will be once it is completed or if we encounter something.

    I hope I can have you patience in the meanwhile.”
    So despite days earlier stating it would take 6 hours, he now was stating he never said that. Now what was all the data on the VPS? Well a few Wordpress sites, (some with lots of traffic) but not the 47GB of data Host4geeks tried to claim in an update on the 22nd June “There is some 47GB of files and close to 2000000 files to be restored.”

    I even emailed and said, as the sites are down could we perhaps arrange a “holding page” on the domains to tell people that the site would be back soon – I never ever had a response to that question from support nor Kushal.

    After asking what was happening after a couple of days I was told

    "Sorry for the delay. We were faced some errors in the restoration process. Anyway, we have re-initiated a backup restore and will keep you updated. Kinldy standby. Again, sorry"
    And then another two days later:

    We are trying our best for restoring the vps but a portion of the restoration is failing with no clear reasons or logs, we are investigating and retrying. Sorry for the task delaying.
    Strangely no more updates from Kushal despite emails until the 1st July. I emailed him, I asked support, support told me:

    “I am flagging this ticket to our management team. You will get an update once the ticket is reviewed by them.”
    No response…

    So after almost 2 weeks have gone by since this, we could not wait any longer, Kushal was not responding to emails, support simply saying they would escalate the ticket to “management” and no response from management. We therefore had to set up a new server with a competitor and proceeded to raise a dispute with paypal – this is still outstanding.

    Host4geeks response to this? They have also deleted and closed the other semi-dedicated server and have not provided us with any of the data nor backups – despite having paid for the hosting.

    Kushal, claims we jumped the gun by raising the paypal dispute as apparently he told us it would take 10 days to restore, strangely though it that 10 days from day one, ten days from the 6 hours? Or ten days from the backups failing with no logs? Sorry I'm confused.

    We hope that others can learn from our experience of host4geeks and ensure you make regular backups of your data. The lesson here is not that Host4geeks is bad, trusting your data to a webhost is bad - we should have been more proactive with our backups. Host4geeks have the right idea - exceptional customer service should be the way to go sadly our experience above shows the execution of said customer service for us has been somewhat lacking in our opinion.

    Since this we have had a letter from a legal person claiming to be representing Host4geeks, but this is quite a vague email with a “Cease and Desist” asking us to remove the post which are allegedly “defamation” from twitter and ratelobby. However despite asking which posts they are referring to (I have over 2800 twitter posts since my account was first set up years ago) they will not tell us which ones are defamation. Having seen other posts on this forum, and posts on sites like reddit about the service from Host4Geeks it would appear to me that we are not the only ones disappointed with the promise of great service which sadly appears to be very lacking in substance.

    Defamation, well what we are telling you is the truth we’ve provided the emails, and we can supply screenshots, it also is our own fair comment – our honestly held opinions on the facts.

    The sites and data we have lost are not for some small sites with no traffic, indeed one site had around 4000 visitors per day – which since this problem has now less than 1000 visitors. Another site had traffic of around 400 people a day this is now in the 200’s region. So this has had a real detrimental affect on our business (we can supply screen shots from Analytics if necessary)
    I know this is a long read, we did send this post to Host4geeks 24 hours ago for them to have the chance to correct anything we have wrong – their response was further threats to sue us for defamation…..

    As the old saying goes, Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me…
    Or in my words, the customer is not always wrong…..

  2. #2
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    Is this the Twitter conversation? - https://twitter.com/realchrisclarke/...96695101702144

    Cannot find anything on Ratelobby, perhaps you removed it?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesin View Post
    Is this the Twitter conversation? - https://twitter.com/realchrisclarke/...96695101702144

    Cannot find anything on Ratelobby, perhaps you removed it?
    Dunno that thread is not defamatory its my opinion and a discussion with them directly - also my tweets were protected till this morning.

    The ratelobby one has not been deleted, its just not been posted to ratelobby yet as they have the right to reply directly with ratelobby - which they dont appear to have done yet.

    That aside its no excuse for what has happened to my sites.

  4. #4
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    No reply from Kushal here, yet ?

  5. #5
    Here's what I sent Kushal when he responded in kind with my very own take-down notice:

    "Defamation is defined as a false statement communicated to another person that damages your reputation by exposing you to hatred, contempt, or ridicule from other people. If such words were written or spoken of you, you are not defamed if the words were true. Truth is a complete defence to defamation. Even if your reputation is damaged by a defamatory communication, you cannot recover if the communication was true. Also "opinion" is not slander...so if A says to B, "I think C is a liar" that is not slander. But if A says to B "C lied to his boss yesterday" (and its not true) that can be slander."

    Thing of it is, many people seem under the impression that they can somehow gag anyone with legal threats in response to public broadcasts following bad business experiences. When in reality, people are fully entitled to share their experiences with others.

    That said, I too have a VPS review to post with host4geeks.
    And much like yourself, it was the service which ruined the party.
    The VPS however seemed quite respectable in terms of performance(when it worked).
    Last edited by Esstee; 07-08-2015 at 09:04 PM.

  6. #6
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    Just curious what host4geeks gonna address this as the thread is look so real.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esstee View Post
    Here's what I sent Kushal when he responded in kind with my very own take-down notice:

    "Defamation is defined as a false statement communicated to another person that damages your reputation by exposing you to hatred, contempt, or ridicule from other people. If such words were written or spoken of you, you are not defamed if the words were true. Truth is a complete defence to defamation. Even if your reputation is damaged by a defamatory communication, you cannot recover if the communication was true. Also "opinion" is not slander...so if A says to B, "I think C is a liar" that is not slander. But if A says to B "C lied to his boss yesterday" (and its not true) that can be slander."

    Thing of it is, many people seem under the impression that they can somehow gag anyone with legal threats in response to public broadcasts following bad business experiences. When in reality, people are fully entitled to share their experiences with others.

    That said, I too have a VPS review to post with host4geeks.
    And much like yourself, it was the service which ruined the party.
    The VPS however seemed quite respectable in terms of performance(when it worked).
    It's a shame because it is where a host could set itself apart - service.

    We still haven't had our data back despite host4geeks appearing to still have it according to an email from them. First PayPal dispute has been ruled in our favour now too.

  8. #8
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    Jul 2015
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    So the saga continues, host4geeks have taken another months payment after all this today for the semi dedicated server. Really disappointed by their behaviour in this.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    So the saga continues, host4geeks have taken another months payment after all this today for the semi dedicated server. Really disappointed by their behaviour in this.
    Did you cancel the subscription on your paypal account?
    Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donn View Post
    Did you cancel the subscription on your paypal account?
    I have now!!! Funnily enough PayPal agreements state that the merchant has to provide the buyer with a cancellation link 3 days prior to the transaction. This never happened.

    The ridiculous thing... I asked Kushal to simply refund this and his response... The usual it's not my fault..... He's not refunded it either. Clearly he has no right to that money and should just refund.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    I have now!!! Funnily enough PayPal agreements state that the merchant has to provide the buyer with a cancellation link 3 days prior to the transaction. This never happened.

    The ridiculous thing... I asked Kushal to simply refund this and his response... The usual it's not my fault..... He's not refunded it either. Clearly he has no right to that money and should just refund.
    Good luck in winning your PayPal dispute I wish you all the best
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    I have now!!! Funnily enough PayPal agreements state that the merchant has to provide the buyer with a cancellation link 3 days prior to the transaction. This never happened.

    The ridiculous thing... I asked Kushal to simply refund this and his response... The usual it's not my fault..... He's not refunded it either. Clearly he has no right to that money and should just refund.
    Thank god that you get your refund.. They should try to minimize paypal disputes by refunding money.

    Closing a account/server means they are arrogant but you should always take a backup of your data to your PC or other offside server. Losing a data is really bad ;/
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DewlanceHosting View Post
    Thank god that you get your refund.. They should try to minimize paypal disputes by refunding money.

    Closing a account/server means they are arrogant but you should always take a backup of your data to your PC or other offside server. Losing a data is really bad ;/
    Yep got the refund today for the amount that was over billed finally. Bit by bit it seems to be happening.

    Totally agree about the data situation, massive learning curve on this one for me. Need to find an effective way to get cpanel to backup each account then see if I can dump it off to Onedrive as I have unlimited space there....

  14. #14
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    Yep got the refund today for the amount that was over billed finally. Bit by bit it seems to be happening.

    Totally agree about the data situation, massive learning curve on this one for me. Need to find an effective way to get cpanel to backup each account then see if I can dump it off to Onedrive as I have unlimited space there....
    Wow I'm impressed.
    Wonder if the owner of host4geeks Kurshal will ever come clean and refund the money he took from me without just cause.
    Will update as time goes-on
    Last edited by Esstee; 07-20-2015 at 11:39 PM.

  16. #16
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    Okay so since I have not been very active here in WHT and did not pay attention to this thread a lot, I see that the OP has very nicely painted a picture of us that is largely inaccurate, false and misleading. As always with these cases, there's always another side to the story. So, here's what actually happened.

    The customer had a VPS with us for a billing term of $58.95 each month. Refer to the invoice here.

    Due Date: 05/28/2015
    Invoice Generated on: 05/14/2015
    Date Paid: 06/18/2015

    The service was overdue for a term of more than 7 days after which it was terminated (completely removed/deleted from the network).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    As per the user, our emails have been going into his Promotions folder.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    We then started restoring his files on a new VPS at absolutely no charge. I shared a screenshot from R1Soft and the ETA that was shown on the screenshot.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    And as confirmed by the user it was progressing as it should. I also clearly explained that while the restoration is in-progress there is not much update I could provide and that I would inform him after it completes. If I recall correctly the ETA shown was about 10-11 days. On the 9th day the customer opened a dispute with PayPal for recent as well as past payments made for the service including the term during which the service was used. Next, he was the one who threatened "legal action" against us and also claiming an apparent "damages worth 3000GBP" as seen below.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    At this point as any provider, his account was closed off and ceased all further communication with him.

    The customer continued to post false and misleading information about us and claims for apparent damages to his business whereas the service downtime was all because of an unpaid invoice resulting in service termination which we further tried to rectify by restoring his files at no additional charges.

    After this point, we have been dealing with this via PayPal's mechanism for dispute resolution. His account was never closed off by us, only after he disputed all his transactions and legal threats.

    Everyone has a right to speech and we would be foolish to pursue a case of defamation under false pretext and just due to a negative review.
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  17. #17
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    It would be clearer if either the OP or the host posts full screenshots because both of them are posting snippets and we don't know what was said before and after it.

  18. #18
    @Host4Geeks-Kushal I am more interested in what you have to say regarding OP's claim that you were posing as some legal representative called "Mr. S." Your/your company's integrity is on the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    I received emails from both "Kushal" and the mystery man Mr S. He won't reveal his name when asked but claims he legally represents Host4geeks. Wierdly though a simple mouseover of his email in Gmail showed the name Kushal R and then when I replaced the legal @ h4g email with kushal.r I got a response from the mystery Mr S but with Kushal's signature in the email. I did a bit of a search and seems both redirect to a Gmail address. Is it me or does this seem a bit odd?

  19. #19
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    There would be no reason for me to pose as a legal representative of my company. We directly work with an independent legal advisor for all our legal needs and David is the one who had been in communication with the customer keeping me in loop. However, I am not at liberty to reveal any of his personal information just as with the customer's personal information.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Host4Geeks-Kushal View Post
    We directly work with an independent legal advisor
    I am not at liberty to reveal any of his personal information
    I call BS. We're not asking for his dating profile.

    Your evasiveness lends credibility to the entire "Mr. S." shenanigans.

    Tell me, is this "David" also young (ie, a student, and not at all qualified to be a "legal advisor"? I'd wager money on it!)
    Last edited by kpmedia; 07-21-2015 at 03:18 PM.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Host4Geeks-Kushal View Post
    However, I am not at liberty to reveal any of his personal information.
    That makes no sense in the context of an attorney. Their profession revolves around not being anonymous.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Host4Geeks-Kushal View Post
    Okay so since I have not been very active here in WHT and did not pay attention to this thread a lot, I see that the OP has very nicely painted a picture of us that is largely inaccurate, false and misleading. As always with these cases, there's always another side to the story. So, here's what actually happened.

    The customer had a VPS with us for a billing term of $58.95 each month. Refer to the invoice here.

    Due Date: 05/28/2015
    Invoice Generated on: 05/14/2015
    Date Paid: 06/18/2015

    The service was overdue for a term of more than 7 days after which it was terminated (completely removed/deleted from the network).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Invoice.png 
Views:	58 
Size:	61.0 KB 
ID:	31795

    As per the user, our emails have been going into his Promotions folder.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2015-07-21 at 9.56.06 PM.png 
Views:	50 
Size:	19.2 KB 
ID:	31796

    We then started restoring his files on a new VPS at absolutely no charge. I shared a screenshot from R1Soft and the ETA that was shown on the screenshot.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2015-07-21 at 9.58.44 PM.png 
Views:	55 
Size:	29.7 KB 
ID:	31797

    And as confirmed by the user it was progressing as it should. I also clearly explained that while the restoration is in-progress there is not much update I could provide and that I would inform him after it completes. If I recall correctly the ETA shown was about 10-11 days. On the 9th day the customer opened a dispute with PayPal for recent as well as past payments made for the service including the term during which the service was used. Next, he was the one who threatened "legal action" against us and also claiming an apparent "damages worth 3000GBP" as seen below.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screen Shot 2015-07-21 at 10.05.19 PM.png 
Views:	58 
Size:	44.7 KB 
ID:	31798

    At this point as any provider, his account was closed off and ceased all further communication with him.

    The customer continued to po kost false and misleading information about us and claims for apparent damages to his business whereas the service downtime was all because of an unpaid invoice resulting in service termination which we further tried to rectify by restoring his files at no additional charges.

    After this point, we have been dealing with this via PayPal's mechanism for dispute resolution. His account was never closed off by us, only after he disputed all his transactions and legal threats.

    Everyone has a right to speech and we would be foolish to pursue a case of defamation under false pretext and just due to a negative review.
    Everyone else's fault obvs! Not so much as an apology or even a hint of wrongdoing.... Service with a smile.....

    And as you are posting snippets Kushal.... Here is the response I got when I asked you and Mr S. What the "defamation" statements you alleged I made were:

    "Hello Mr. Xxxxx

    Please be advised that we are not liable to prove any of the above mentioned points to you, such proves are for the court-room and the judiciary. "

    More to follow....
    Last edited by cheshirelabs; 07-21-2015 at 05:37 PM.

  23. #23
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    Furthermore Kushal you were sent this review for comment before I posted it and I asked if you wanted to make any amendments.... You didn't as far as I recall? Correct me if I am wrong please.

  24. #24
    There is no need for an attorney to be mister mystery guest.. if he was your legal advisor or a lawyer, he would not hide behind a mystery name.. he would be under a name of joe blow attorney at law, 12345 fall down street, wherever, some state, 66666... Phone number: 666-666-6666\

    the point is.. no lawyer ever hides behind some mystery name, why because it is against their code of ethics to misrepresent themselves in any way. After spending that type of money for school there is no way in hell a lawyer is going to screw that up, or lie about themselves.

    so here is the big question, did the emails originate from the same ip address via headers? did it come from a gmail email address? also no lawyer will use gmail for business email, they want to always want to look professional.
    Small Budget Hosting - Starter Hosting, Advanced Hosting - Reseller Hosting

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    1,427
    Quote Originally Posted by cheshirelabs View Post
    Yep got the refund today for the amount that was over billed finally. Bit by bit it seems to be happening.

    Totally agree about the data situation, massive learning curve on this one for me. Need to find an effective way to get cpanel to backup each account then see if I can dump it off to Onedrive as I have unlimited space there....
    Here's 2 options for you:

    WHMEasyBackup, a great script: https://whmeasybackup.com/

    R1Soft (if you have Xen,KVM,VMware etc virtual machine) - you can get a license from one of 2 places relatively cheap: R1Softstorage.com (Backupsy) or R1Softlicenses.com (X10). Get yourself another VPS with another provider (even Backupsy would work) and back up your server to it.

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