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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98

    Where do I look for mass-email hosting on the cheap?

    Hi. I guess my customer base has grown over the years. I went to mail them to announce a new product, and my current host choked. Turns out I have a limit of 50 emails an hour and sending 9,000 out at once was a no-no.

    So I looked a bit into things and found services like Mailchimp... and that's cool and all, but I'm way too cheap to pay $75 a month just to send out emails! I pay less than a 5th of that a YEAR to host my site lol

    I really don't email very often, which is also why mailchimp's fees make me want to cry. I'd consider their pay-as-you-go, but frankly that doesn't seem like good value either.

    Are there services here dedicated to this sort of thing? I realize mass-mailing has its ugly spam side, but I'm confident those on my list actually want my mail. It isn't random "buy my crap please" stuff.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kepler 62f
    Posts
    16,703
    You want the SMTP service Mandrill (owned by MailChimp).
    || Need a good host?
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    You want the SMTP service Mandrill (owned by MailChimp).
    Thanks... and that's cool (and cheap!) but I'm not getting how sending an email blast to my customer base is "transactional" (Mandrill) vs. "bulk" (MailChimp).

    Not that I'd complain - the price is right! - but I don't want to "get in trouble" by sending the wrong type using the wrong service either.

    Is it "transactional" enough by simply writing, "youre' getting this because of your order on such and such a date"?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98
    And let me ask another broader question: why would you use the much more expensive mailchimp service if mandrill exists? I guess I'm missing a big-picture point here. Please enlighten me.

  5. #5
    Mailchimp will also managing your subscribers, allow you to create mailing lists, etc... while Mandrill is used just for sending out mails, which means you'll have to code a script for sending out mails, manage your subscribers, mail templates, etc.
    Uptime Monitor - Minimize your downtime by being the first to know about it!

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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98
    Oooohh... Ok. So Mandrill offloads the SMTP service I currently use with my webhost, to their servers, right? Actually, I think that is more what I want.

    And reading through their FAQ, it sounds like bulk mail can qualify too, so long as it isn't "spam". Although I'm a little unclear on the difference. I guess it comes down to complaints.

    Thanks for the suggestion and help!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by s_mack View Post
    Oooohh... Ok. So Mandrill offloads the SMTP service I currently use with my webhost, to their servers, right? Actually, I think that is more what I want.

    And reading through their FAQ, it sounds like bulk mail can qualify too, so long as it isn't "spam". Although I'm a little unclear on the difference. I guess it comes down to complaints.

    Thanks for the suggestion and help!
    Mandrill customer here, been with them for 1 year. We're using the service to send transactional emails and occasional marketing emails. No problems so far.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by s_mack View Post
    And reading through their FAQ, it sounds like bulk mail can qualify too, so long as it isn't "spam". Although I'm a little unclear on the difference. I guess it comes down to complaints.
    Bulk email: you have (lets say) 1000 clients that agreed to receive newsletters from you, emailing them all at once is bulk mailing.

    Spam email: you scrapped (lets say) 1000 emails from different sources and you're emailing them your newsletter or offers without their permission.

    Bulk mail != Spam mail
    Uptime Monitor - Minimize your downtime by being the first to know about it!

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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,635
    Plus one for using Mandrill, but even with that you wouldn't want (or be able) to send 9,000 emails at once, you'll need to pace them a bit. You'll also need to handle bounces and unsubscription requests somehow.

    I use Dada Mail (http://dadamailproject.com) for both those tasks because it includes an online message archive with the same appearance as the rest of the site but there are alternatives, such as Majordomo.
    Phil McKerracher
    I do server maintenance and troubleshooting

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,393
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil McKerracher View Post
    Plus one for using Mandrill, but even with that you wouldn't want (or be able) to send 9,000 emails at once, you'll need to pace them a bit. You'll also need to handle bounces and unsubscription requests somehow.
    This is very important to consider. Mandrill will raise your hourly sending limit substantially over time but new accounts start on the lower end (though considerably more than 50).
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Kepler 62f
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    Bulk = the recipients asked to be on the mailing list
    Spam = they did not
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98
    Hi. I hope you're still monitoring this thread

    So I took your advice and I signed up with Mandrill. Its been a few months now and it says my reputation is "excellent", I have a 0.01% spam complain and a very low bounce rate. My hourly quota started at 150/hr. And now? Oh yeah, its 150/hr.

    Their support is non-existent in that there's no way at all to contact them. Their FAQ says what you guys said, that it would increase automatically. Anecdotally, I've read some people saying they have a quota of 5,000/hr so what do you think gives?

    I'm on their free account because so far I'm nowhere near the 12,000 they give me in a month (I guess I was lucky in that they changed that to 2000 TOTAL right after I signed up)... but nothing indicates that if I did pay that it would be any higher! Under "paid features" it just talks about storage limits and more tracking and stuff... nothing about quota and not even anything about premium support. Lol, I'd pay just to have the ability to ask them this question instead of asking you guys to guess on their behalf!

    Right now, 150/hr is cutting it... barely. I'm not sure what happens to the backlog if it gets "too high" or what defines "too high". I do get backlogged some times, but typically I'm only sending out about 80/hr with spikes where I could have used 600 but had to manually hold it back.

    I don't mind paying - their paid rate is ridiculously cheap - but it isn't clear what I'd be paying for other than total volume. Volume isn't my problem... it is peak rate.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,635
    As you say, we can only guess on their behalf, but my personal experience when I tried them a while ago was that as I increased my sending rate their limit increased to match it. So when you say "150/hr is cutting it... barely" that would make sense - they're trying to accommodate normal usage while still preventing spikes that might result from a compromised machine (or an attempt to fool their system).

    Is the occasional backlog causing you problems? If not, live with it. If it is, try limiting your sending rate to make it more predictable (which might create an internal backlog, of course).

    Mandrill isn't perfect - I gave up on it because mail wasn't getting through to some destinations so I was just swapping one problem for a different one. I have more control with my own email server. But whatever mail server you use, sending big spikes of mail can get you blacklisted at the receiving end so to some extent you have to live with backlogs. Email isn't like instant messaging, delays are normal.
    Phil McKerracher
    I do server maintenance and troubleshooting

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    CMYK-Land
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    1,400
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil McKerracher View Post
    Mandrill isn't perfect - I gave up on it because mail wasn't getting through to some destinations so I was just swapping one problem for a different one.
    Probably the reason was the same as in my case. Little more than a month i went to test MailChimp service because one of my clients needed for his online store. All story ended in few minutes when i made a test and sent few emails to my server and not a single one got into my inbox. When i check the logs i saw all the IP's were blacklisted at Spamhaus but not only few of them, there was many big IP blocks (right now cant remember the size). At that point i just gave up and talk with my client to build his private email server.
    - I often come to the conclusion that my brain has too many tabs open. -
    Failing at desktop publishing & graphic design since 1994
    .
    Pretty soon we can expect hosting companies offering "double unlimited"
    or
    "not limited unlimited with no limits".

  15. #15

    Hey

    I use yahoo business to mass send emails.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Online
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    4,883
    Quote Originally Posted by BrandonOrNah View Post
    I use yahoo business to mass send emails.
    I hope that's better than basic Yahoo! Mail.
    My "ranking" is kidding.
    I'm just a humble client, here to seek help and guidance from the true experts.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by s_mack View Post
    Hi. I hope you're still monitoring this thread

    So I took your advice and I signed up with Mandrill. Its been a few months now and it says my reputation is "excellent", I have a 0.01% spam complain and a very low bounce rate. My hourly quota started at 150/hr. And now? Oh yeah, its 150/hr.

    Their support is non-existent in that there's no way at all to contact them. Their FAQ says what you guys said, that it would increase automatically. Anecdotally, I've read some people saying they have a quota of 5,000/hr so what do you think gives?

    I'm on their free account because so far I'm nowhere near the 12,000 they give me in a month (I guess I was lucky in that they changed that to 2000 TOTAL right after I signed up)... but nothing indicates that if I did pay that it would be any higher! Under "paid features" it just talks about storage limits and more tracking and stuff... nothing about quota and not even anything about premium support. Lol, I'd pay just to have the ability to ask them this question instead of asking you guys to guess on their behalf!

    Right now, 150/hr is cutting it... barely. I'm not sure what happens to the backlog if it gets "too high" or what defines "too high". I do get backlogged some times, but typically I'm only sending out about 80/hr with spikes where I could have used 600 but had to manually hold it back.

    I don't mind paying - their paid rate is ridiculously cheap - but it isn't clear what I'd be paying for other than total volume. Volume isn't my problem... it is peak rate.
    I'm a little late to this party, but I'm curious. Have you thought about asking your host if they could just raise your sending limit and send there instead? 50 an hour seems a little low to me.

    Anyway, I would guess that it does have something to do with free versus paid as to why the limit isn't increasing. Have you thought about SendGrid, or a different service?
    Bobby - PreciselyManaged.com - Precision Hosting Solutions
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  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Panama
    Posts
    211
    Well from a Provider Point of view, bulk mail is not same to spam mail

    We can consider a spam "and not need to be bulk" any email send one by one to a list of persons that have not opted to be there is considered spam.

    If you have a real customers list not matter the size maybe 50 maybe 5000 maybe 50000 but those are your customers, if you have on your TOS the text where you explain that you will "occasionally" send an email with promotions etc, then that's fine.

    About mandrill I have to tell you that we use them for all those customers like you that need for a bull mail service for real suscribers, we use from time ago and there's no problem while your list is real and updated. If you receive lot of bounce they will suspend your account.

    Thanks
    Panamaserver.com
    Offshore Shared Hosting, VPS and Dedicated Servers in Panama

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Miami Beach, Florida
    Posts
    661
    We consider SPAM what the law states as SPAM... just because it is unwanted does not mean it is SPAM, if it follows the legal rules set out by the government, that is where we draw the line. If it is unwanted email but conforms to the rules, we require the sender to get a dedicated IP.
    So many people click to sign up for offers without reading they are opting in that when you do send them something, there are always those that click "spam"
    Ask your host if obtaining a dedicated IP is an option.
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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98
    Quote Originally Posted by UH-Bobby View Post
    I'm a little late to this party, but I'm curious. Have you thought about asking your host if they could just raise your sending limit and send there instead? 50 an hour seems a little low to me.

    Anyway, I would guess that it does have something to do with free versus paid as to why the limit isn't increasing. Have you thought about SendGrid, or a different service?
    I have asked my provider and they were accomodating... upping it to 100. The problem is that theirs is a hard limit, so after 100 they're just gone. At least with Mandrill, it is a backlog.

    I wasn't really complaining about mandrill. It *is* working for me @ 150, I just thought with my 'excellent reputation', near-zero spam complaints, etc that it would have increased. My complaint, if I have one, is that they have ZERO method for asking them what's up! And also zero indication that by paying for the service that the rate would change. That's why I asked... if there's no change, then no reason to pay since I'm well within the free 12k/mo.

    I did briefly look at SendGrid and others but (at the time) Mandrill was by far the most generous on the free service and I had really no reason to look elsewhere. But I'll look again to see if something fits better. Thanks.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98
    I also meant to say: so far, I have no indication at all that any emails aren't getting through, other than a few bounces that certainly isn't Mandrill's fault. I guess I don't know for certain though, maybe hundreds are being lost to Cyber Space? How would I know?

  22. #22
    So basically you guys use mandril and let your customers information stored in a FREE online storage? Is this secure? Isn't it too much trust?

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98
    You're kidding, right?

    First off, paid or free... that *NEVER* is the point. You can pay someone to dispose of your information improperly, just as easily as you can not pay for it. Second, what "storage"? Third... it is EMAIL, by definition insecure. Finally... what "information"?

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    5,393
    @s_mack, 150 is a low hourly limit for Mandrill, how long have you been using them? I've been using them for a few years and my sending limit is 1,132/hr.
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  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    98
    <<snipped>>
    @DWS2006 150 is what it started at and that's where it has stayed. I joined right after the start of this thread (July). Reading about their "automatic" adjustment of limits, I would have expected it to change. Especially lately, as I've had quite a few spurts of orders and I count 19 times this month where my hourly volume was 300 to 600. Still limited to 150 with ZERO way to ask them how to change them and zero indication that it ever will, other than it is "automatic".

    I did notice that they changed their pricing structure almost immediately after I signed up. I get 12k per month while new signups I gather get 2K total (not per month) before being asked to pay. So I do strongly suspect that the issue here is that I'm not paying, but they DO NOT SAY THAT and they do not give you ANY means of contacting them (ironic, considering what they do for a living).
    Last edited by bear; 10-22-2015 at 03:53 PM.

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