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  1. #1
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    Feb 2013
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    Hotmail email issues & deliverability

    Hello,

    I've encountered a problem on a server I'm doing some consulting work on. It seems the server sends email to users @hotmail.com however the email isn't received. I've gone through the diligence of refining Exim, Email configurations, adding SPF records, checking blacklists, everything is green and ideal. However, hotmail will ONLY allow mail to be delivered if the sender is on the "accepted sender / safe senders" list of the user. This is a bit ridiculous considering its not viable to tell everyone who wants to email you to add you to a safe list. At the same time I came across an article saying Microsoft's live email services (msn, hotmail, etc) include filters dependent on the "Return Path / Sender Score" partnership program. And I checked into it... they want hundreds of dollars just to apply, and hundreds more just to maintain certification! That's absolute robbery, and frankly its akin to a monopolistic heist if that's what it takes to successfully be "allowed" to send mail to hotmail users.

    Has anyone had any experience successfully moving past delivery issues, perhaps pertaining to hotmail specifically? Any & all insight appreciated, as always.

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    If your ISP ip range has bad scores they will limit the amount of emails you can sent to their MTA, or blacklist them depending on the spam reputation. Best would be to have your ISP/HOST contact them see if they can remove the restrictions on their Ranges.
    --
    CLAG

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    The provider's mentioned not having any "magic direct ties" to Microsoft. They really did give it their all to help, we tore through the settings thoroughly. Everything's well within RFC compliance, passes every test I throw at it, and even demonstrates delivery to the Microsoft servers. No blacklists at the moment. I even called the Exchange department which has a proprietary portal to check IP addresses and neither IP was listed on a blacklist used by Microsoft.

    I really hate to say it but the only way to handle it that it really leaves open is to tell people to contact others by alternative means and have them whitelist the email account, use gmail or pay for Google Apps. I just think it's pathetic the industry tolerates the presence of companies that stomp on independent web hosts ability to even exist. I'd gladly get on board with a petition for a class action lawsuit against Microsoft for this garbage. Wouldn't even ask for payment. They just need to get their act cleaned up.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    1,785
    Quote Originally Posted by selinux View Post
    Best would be to have your ISP/HOST contact them see if they can remove the restrictions on their Ranges.
    Good luck with that.


    Spam and email is becoming a huge problem. Kind of makes you wonder why there isn't an alternative. You would think that somebody would be working on or developing something that acts much the same way that email does but with more security intertwined.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    It's been said many times by wise people. The internet is best when it is free & open. When you tighten your grip on email, everybody loses. It's like justice, innocent until proven guilty is a sound principle for good reason. It's better that a few hundred spam messages make it through the cracks on any given day than to bite the hands that provide email services for people. I remember a day when people were free to choose what email they did and didn't see. And to be honest, it's not saving anyone's bacon. People are still going to click on weird crap, play unsecure facebook games and click the wrong download button.

    I hope it clears up soon though. No way am I paying upwards of $500/year for the privilege of sending to hotmails crappy service. The accounts on the machines have committed no foul and no offense. The servers are well managed. Issues are always dealt with promptly. Nobody deserves a penalty here, nor should they be fined to what the rest of the internet regards as a very open standard for communication.

  6. #6
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    It sounds like the IP is listed within an RBL?
    UK Based Proactive Server Management.
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  7. #7
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    Feb 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by cd/home View Post
    It sounds like the IP is listed within an RBL?
    It almost acts that way, but it's not. There's no listing anywhere for it, and the officials at Microsoft also presented to me via screen share that neither system was being blacklisted.

    I just think it's a really flawed spam scoring system they are using.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_McKim View Post
    It almost acts that way, but it's not. There's no listing anywhere for it, and the officials at Microsoft also presented to me via screen share that neither system was being blacklisted.

    I just think it's a really flawed spam scoring system they are using.
    Can you quickly check to see if it's listed on Symantec: http://ipremoval.sms.symantec.com/lookup/
    UK Based Proactive Server Management.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cd/home View Post
    Can you quickly check to see if it's listed on Symantec: http://ipremoval.sms.symantec.com/lookup/
    "The IP address you submitted, xx.xx.xxx.x, does not have a negative reputation and therefore cannot be submitted for investigation. "

    Clean.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by David_McKim View Post
    "The IP address you submitted, xx.xx.xxx.x, does not have a negative reputation and therefore cannot be submitted for investigation. "

    Clean.
    That's good, I see you've mentioned SPF do you have DKIM & DMARC inplace too?
    UK Based Proactive Server Management.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
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    one of our server ip's was blocked by MS (but clean on all RBLs). Got it delisted by emailing this address. delist@messaging.microsoft.com
    Eria Hosting- eria.io
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  12. #12
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    Feb 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by cd/home View Post
    That's good, I see you've mentioned SPF do you have DKIM & DMARC inplace too?
    SPF & DKIM, yes. DMARC I don't believe so.

    Eriahosting - thanks. I'll give that email a try

  13. #13
    Have you filled out the form below? I've contacted MS on a number of occasions and they've always been amazingly quick to remove any blacklist entries.

    https://support.live.com/eform.aspx?...eformts&scrx=1

    Though, if MS has already claimed your IP is not listed, this may not be of any help either.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by woktron View Post
    Have you filled out the form below? I've contacted MS on a number of occasions and they've always been amazingly quick to remove any blacklist entries.

    https://support.live.com/eform.aspx?...eformts&scrx=1

    Though, if MS has already claimed your IP is not listed, this may not be of any help either.
    Ive tried that form but it just errors out on me when trying to submit it...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by David_McKim View Post
    Ive tried that form but it just errors out on me when trying to submit it...
    Not sure about that one I'm afraid. Was there an error message of some sort or does it just time out?
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  16. #16
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    Something to the tune of "Oops technical problem, try again, we'll try to fix it soon" or something. Pretty uncool considering its one of the only modes of communication people actually have for such issues.

  17. #17
    Yeah, that's not very helpful at all.

    Have you checked the DNS side of things? Is there a valid MX record present?
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by woktron View Post
    Yeah, that's not very helpful at all.

    Have you checked the DNS side of things? Is there a valid MX record present?
    I do believe so. The server provider and I have been through DNS & MX settings, Exim, the whole 9 yards. Neither of us notice anything offending or insecure about the setup at all.

  19. #19
    You can run a bunch of relevant tests using this site: http://mxtoolbox.com/

    Ensure there are no CNAME records causing conflicts when sending mail. Not sure what else to suggest, sorry
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by woktron View Post
    You can run a bunch of relevant tests using this site: http://mxtoolbox.com/

    Ensure there are no CNAME records causing conflicts when sending mail. Not sure what else to suggest, sorry
    I like mxtoolbox, I use them all the time. They haven't presented any out of line settings that my attention could be called to yet.

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