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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb The Irrelevance of Bandwidth + Features in Shared Web Hosting (worth discussing)

    Let me start by saying that approx 5 years ago when I first joined WHT, there was a common consensus going around about Disk Space quotas eventually becoming completely irrelevant in the shared web hosting environment (in exchange for Memory, CPU, I/O Disk limits..ect). I was a bit skeptical about the disk space part, because the Hard Disk is a very important piece of hardware), nonetheless the rest of that equation has pretty much started to take shape behind the scenes. You now have business owners and sys admins working more closely together to understand the whole picture as it relates to server resource consumption.

    With that being said, if you ask the average web user about the importance of I/O, PHP Memory, Ram, CPU..ect for the most part they remain clueless. Yet, users still use diskspace + bandwidth as the main metrics for "what am I getting" when searching for web hosting (which is the wrong approach).

    My point.. take a look around and you will see the web hosting industry (as a whole) presenting very dated and useless information to the general public. Ex: just recently I saw a company advertising unlimited bandwidth + unlimited ftp accounts as the main features for a web hosting account. The problem with this, just about every Sys admin is going to agree (or at least I hope) that Bandwidth is completely irrelevant at this point (not to be confused with Dedicated or Colocated platforms).

    So why continue to shove this information down users throats? The next is FTP, incredibly insecure and should be replaced with SFTP (yet FTP is still advertised as a feature). I don't think we would accept Netflix advertising Unlimited VHS rentals, so why do we accept this type of behavior in the web hosting industry? I think most of the features listed on Web Hosting websites are either completely irrelevant (bandwidth, FTP) or they are only relevant to about 10% of the population.

  2. #2
    Just get to the reality...people don't know about the real meaning of "unlimited". It is the one marketing gimmick that has proven in the web hosting industry for long and is continuously to do so. Big names in the web hosting industry also use the same strategy as most of the end users fall for it. So IMHO this method will continue to rule unless everyone of potential clients become tech savvy which is not possible.

  3. #3
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    You are correct up to a point. But from what I see almost 70% of people are not sharing the worries you have. And I bet the unlimited tag is still a sales tactics which attracts many, though people at WHT don’t encourage it. Even though they advertise as unlimited bandwidth in fact they have set the limit to a bigger value in the assumption that the client will not use such a greater value.

    Another reason for these same old fashioned sales tag lines are because of the customers, web hosting providers need to use the keywords which the customers search for. Unlimited and Free still leads the race.

  4. #4
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    I think you guys are somewhat missing my point (I did not want this to turn into another debate about marketing terms). Rather, I wanted this discussion to be about the lack of useful information being presented to web users who are shopping specifically for shared web hosting.

    And To be frank, I see much of what the bigger brands are doing as losing (in a major way).

    I was taking a break last-night and caught and episode of Silicon Valley (a fictional/comedy TV show), where web hosting was a major part of the episodes plot. Although HBO is hardly mainstream, I will be incredibly surprised if we do not see wholesale changes (real soon) with the way information is presented to web users. Its kind of crazy if you think about it.. the web hosting marketing department has somewhat been locked in a "time capsule" for most of the last 20+ years. Thus making the web hosting industry very, very stale..

  5. #5
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    Can't speak for everyone but in my experience those items you mentioned (bandwidth, disk space, FTP, emails, yadda yadda) are still at the 'forefront' of advertising in this industry because a *lot* of people still ask about it. We get plenty of pre-sales inquiries every day of people asking about how many email accounts they can create, or how many FTP users they're allowed, or even if we support common scripting languages like PHP. Despite our homepage and features list (and a hundred other sources) showing what we offer, people still ask. An increasing number of folks are asking about CPU or IO limits, but these are the people you'd consider a more informed consumer.

    Every company in this industry runs variate tests on their site (and most popular sub-pages) to see what keywords result in the best conversions. There's a reason unlimited bandwidth and FTP accounts (to use your examples) are still prominently displayed on most companies home pages.

  6. #6
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    I've said that for years. "Unlimited" bandwidth is limited either by CloudLinux (via IO limits) or the port speed itself. So you can have "unlimited", but it's within confines of other limits. I know, it's somewhat stupid, but also somewhat not.

    On the other hand, hard disk space is intrinsically tied to the other resources -- CPU, RAM, and MySQL queries (also RAM). As the size of the data increases, it's pretty much a given that the other resources will rise as well. I've never seen a large site with no visitors (unless they're using it store files). You see small sites with lots of visitors, yes, but the inverse almost never happens.

    There's a huge lack of information out there, you are correct. I speak with a lot of hosting owners, and the thing that I'm always impressing is transparency, and a willingness to explain things to customers. But too many are happy with a status quo of "stupid end users". But the internet has been around for 20+ years now, and there's a lot of non-stupid users. To grab that demographic -- the FUTURE demographic! -- you'll need to do better than essentially lie to their faces.

    "Unlimited FTP" = a completely idiotic bygone of the last decade. Seriously, get with the times, or GTFO.

    People were already onto EIG, before Hostgator, because of the whole "unlimited = NOT unlimited" issue. Same for Godaddy. It's only gotten worse, and it will continue. Companies that adopt their methods are adopting in 2000s, and the 2010s are already half over. Companies like WPEngine don't do unlimited, and they're pretty well off. The idea that you must be "unlimited" is myopic and clueless -- as well as an anachronism (time capsule, as you said).

    You can also expect more government oversight in time, as the whole interwebs becomes less confusing to John Q. "Old Fogey" Politician. The cell phone industry already felt it years ago, and ISPs are eating it now as well. Hosting is coming. The entire "unlimited" aspect will surely be gutted by then, be it voluntarily by the industry, or forcibly by consumer-protectionist laws/regulations.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrianFarrell View Post
    Every company in this industry runs variate tests on their site (and most popular sub-pages) to see what keywords result in the best conversions. There's a reason unlimited bandwidth and FTP accounts (to use your examples) are still prominently displayed on most companies home pages.
    I think that partly ends up being the problem. Businesses (especially in the hosting sector) are essentially catering to the same people (essentially cannibalizing the industry). I think businesses (especially on the development side) are getting too caught up in analytics, which are important, however are only part of the picture).

    Its an interesting perspective nonetheless, if web hosting businesses want to continue to thrive, they will need to start tapping into "new business" and much of that revolves around new users (you will find most of those users on Free Sitebuilder type services). Basically, people who are simply looking to start a website, but do not realize just how important web hosting plays into that equation.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post

    There's a huge lack of information out there, you are correct. I speak with a lot of hosting owners, and the thing that I'm always impressing is transparency, and a willingness to explain things to customers. But too many are happy with a status quo of "stupid end users". But the internet has been around for 20+ years now, and there's a lot of non-stupid users. To grab that demographic -- the FUTURE demographic! --
    That pretty much hits the nail right on the head, especially the line about the Future Demographic (transparency and user education go hand in hand). Further if you start breaking down some of these larger companies, you will start to see just how inefficient they are, not just how their customer service centers are set-up, but also some of these Data Centers are incredibly dated and inefficient. Obviously nobody is perfect, but I will be very surprised if some of these bigger brands that everyone thinks are "winning" are still around (at least as industry leaders) 5-10 years from now.

  9. #9
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    One of the last successful hosts to jump on the "unlimited" bandwagon was Brent Oxley's Hostgator, but that quickly got out of hand. Even before he sold it to EIG, it had flaws that were destroying it from the inside. (How quickly some forget this!)

    Not to pick on Hawkhost (via BrianFarrell), but I think he gave a great example of how hosting companies are completely failing. If customers have to ask so many questions in pre-sales, then YOU screwed up somewhere. Realize that most customers DO NOT ASK and simply move on.

    I know that IT folks gets defensive (no idea why), but it shows how IT fields have a complete lack of quality marketing, advertising, and public relations. And the reason that happens is because hosts are often devoid of comm/media. They're hosting experts that are playing around in a field in which they have no expertise (communication and media).

    And it comes as NO SURPRISE that companies with quality comm/media and winning the hosting war -- EIG/Godaddy/1&1 and the "unlimited" BS. But that can be countered with quality opposition. It happens in many other industries.

    But the main problem is that IT folks too often think that comm/media folks are unneeded (or minimally needed), which is ridiculous.

    I often find it amusing when some IT person gets his feathers ruffled by a non-IT person playing with servers and computers. That's just as stupid.

    IT vs. marketing/PR/ad is a classic battle.

    The other aspect is that many "companies" are anything but. It's just a gaggle of semi-educated hooligans "playing business", like we did back in my high school economics class (which was before the internet was around). So, sadly, in a way, EIG/Godaddy/1&1 has a lot more ammo there as well -- they're legitimate professionals, and you're not.

    Hosts need to step up to the table with the big boys, but almost none do. They're blinded by their own egos, and refuse to create an actual "company" with diverse expertise -- just like a real company! Instead they're happy with scraps, like the stray in the alley. They don't understand they'll never grow that way.

    That's the brutal truth of hosting, like it or not, regardless of whether you agree or not.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    One of the last successful hosts to jump on the "unlimited" bandwagon was Brent Oxley's Hostgator, but that quickly got out of hand. Even before he sold it to EIG, it had flaws that were destroying it from the inside. (How quickly some forget this!)

    Not to pick on Hawkhost (via BrianFarrell), but I think he gave a great example of how hosting companies are completely failing. If customers have to ask so many questions in pre-sales, then YOU screwed up somewhere. Realize that most customers DO NOT ASK and simply move on.

    I know that IT folks gets defensive (no idea why), but it shows how IT fields have a complete lack of quality marketing, advertising, and public relations. And the reason that happens is because hosts are often devoid of comm/media. They're hosting experts that are playing around in a field in which they have no expertise (communication and media).

    And it comes as NO SURPRISE that companies with quality comm/media and winning the hosting war -- EIG/Godaddy/1&1 and the "unlimited" BS. But that can be countered with quality opposition. It happens in many other industries.

    But the main problem is that IT folks too often think that comm/media folks are unneeded (or minimally needed), which is ridiculous.

    I often find it amusing when some IT person gets his feathers ruffled by a non-IT person playing with servers and computers. That's just as stupid.

    IT vs. marketing/PR/ad is a classic battle.

    The other aspect is that many "companies" are anything but. It's just a gaggle of semi-educated hooligans "playing business", like we did back in my high school economics class (which was before the internet was around). So, sadly, in a way, EIG/Godaddy/1&1 has a lot more ammo there as well -- they're legitimate professionals, and you're not.

    Hosts need to step up to the table with the big boys, but almost none do. They're blinded by their own egos, and refuse to create an actual "company" with diverse expertise -- just like a real company! Instead they're happy with scraps, like the stray in the alley. They don't understand they'll never grow that way.

    That's the brutal truth of hosting, like it or not, regardless of whether you agree or not.
    Sir, I will admit you sometimes have a way of saying things that may rub some people the wrong way, but if people can get past the "hurt feelings" in what people like yourself are saying, I think there can be some real progress made (with the internet as a whole)

  11. #11
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    In order to solve business problems, you can't be worried about feelings.
    Those who get upset so easily shouldn't be running a business. You will fail if you take it personally.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by FernGullyGraphics View Post
    I think you guys are somewhat missing my point (I did not want this to turn into another debate about marketing terms). Rather, I wanted this discussion to be about the lack of useful information being presented to web users who are shopping specifically for shared web hosting.
    .
    You brought it up but it hasn't been clearly answered yet. What are some things you would consider more useful information for hosts to "compare" plans? Besides ram, cpu, or ftp.

  13. #13
    Do you have an example of what we should be looking at? I myself am willing to pay a premium for a good web host that doesn't oversell and gives reliable service. (I'm assuming the higher price turns people on a cheap budget away from using them). I am trying out site5's LA server, but find that when I visit my own site (from LA also) the load times are little too slow for my taste (probably normal anyway)... i'm not sure if thats just the way it is on shared hosting, but for my purposes I am almost positive that a dedicated server is overkill or anything beyond shared hosting. I'm trying to put a dental practice webpage just for others to find out about our office, just information and download forms.

    I am looking at liquidweb's shared hosting too (WHT forums load very fast).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag View Post
    You brought it up but it hasn't been clearly answered yet. What are some things you would consider more useful information for hosts to "compare" plans? Besides ram, cpu, or ftp.
    The biggest problem is that too many hosts speak dork, not English. To even say things like "RAM, CPU and FTP" is meaningless word salad to the masses.

    The classic approach has been to just say "unlimited". Then customers "didn't need to worry" about such things. It reminds me of how women were treated for generations. "Don't worry your head, pretty lady. That's mens work!" That approach is failing, and was always going to fail. You can't treat somebody as if they're stupid forever.

    But you also can purposely confuse them with industry-specific jargon. (CPU, RAM, FTP, blah blah blah)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag View Post
    You brought it up but it hasn't been clearly answered yet. What are some things you would consider more useful information for hosts to "compare" plans? Besides ram, cpu, or ftp.
    I don't think there is a clear answer to that question (hence, what prompted me to start this thread). Let me give you a personal example, just recently I had been looking at various Co-Location options for expansion and quickly found the experience to be very frustrating. Keep in mind not all business men or woman in this industry have a strict IT background (I have always considered myself businessman first, IT second).

    With that being said, lets take dedicated servers for example, how many dedicated server providers stress the importance of at least having Raid-1 hard drive configurations? At the very least there should be some type of warning for the consumer so they could actually understand the importance of Raid. The same goes for hard drive types (Sata vs SAS vs SSD) the list goes on and on..

    I know easier said than done, but in my opinion, businesses need to start teaching vs selling. Much of the site content you still see in 2015 (is still geared towards organic search results of 2002 and that is simply not going to cut it).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by FernGullyGraphics View Post
    I don't think there is a clear answer to that question (hence, what prompted me to start this thread). Let me give you a personal example, just recently I had been looking at various Co-Location options for expansion and quickly found the experience to be very frustrating. Keep in mind not all business men or woman in this industry have a strict IT background (I have always considered myself businessman first, IT second).

    With that being said, lets take dedicated servers for example, how many dedicated server providers stress the importance of at least having Raid-1 hard drive configurations? At the very least there should be some type of warning for the consumer so they could actually understand the importance of Raid. The same goes for hard drive types (Sata vs SAS vs SSD) the list goes on and on..

    I know easier said than done, but in my opinion, businesses need to start teaching vs selling. Much of the site content you still see in 2015 (is still geared towards organic search results of 2002 and that is simply not going to cut it).
    That is a good point. Teaching rather than just saying you got 100% of a cpu core. I mean it doesn't mean much to someone that knows nothing about computers. On the other hand people don't read either. Personally I've cut out some information, because it didn't seem to be useful. I wanted to be more transparent, but that didn't work lol. While hosts need to educate. It is not easy. Even if every smaller host decided to be part of a pact, and do packages that listed every resource with a little (?) beside it with information. The big companies would still take over with polluting the market with the non information. It would be a start though.

    If people need to read 3 paragraphs in order to buy something they will probably leave before that.

    So maybe we start a community site / pact and hosts signup under the pretense of educating clients. Have a list of guidelines that each host must follow in order to be listed on the site as part of the pact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by srpurdy View Post
    If people need to read 3 paragraphs in order to buy something they will probably leave before that.
    You are definitely right, consolidating the explanation of web hosting is a great feat in itself. I think somewhere, someplace, someone decided instead of trying to explain how web hosting worked, it would be easier to simply say everything was unlimited so users did not have to worry about it (when they should).

    With that being said, we definitely need to get away from the culture of consumers not being able to sit down to read. Especially when web hosting is such a crucial part of any business, let alone a web business).

  18. #18
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    Well people don't read, that is true. But what we find for most companies is that they just want things to work and they don't care about the how's, why, what. Thats why things like unlimited sound better than 25mb. Most people don't even know how much space they need for example, they just want it there and ready when they do need it.

    Educating people is extremely costly and difficult. As long as hosting has been around most people now know a webhost has websites and thats where you go to put up a website. Digital ocean is a great example of just how simple people want things, think iphone. There used to be a time I had to explain all the time what webhosting is. Now that we are talking about the educated IT people in the market and not the masses, those guys do care about cpu, ram, and they know what those things mean.

    Your not going to change the fast and now culture or people not reading. Not even the giants of our industry dare to try to educate people. So really does your company cater to the educated geeks out there or the masses?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jag View Post
    Educating people is extremely costly and difficult.
    But it pays huge dividends in the end. Getting too caught up in making everything (including the customer experience) automated, as efficient as possible is not always the best route. I have always been a firm believe that an educated consumer is always going to be x2 more valuable than an uneducated user.

    How do you accomplish education? Its starts with at least making the information accessible. Then you move onto the office culture inside of your customer service centers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jag View Post
    Not even the giants of our industry dare to try to educate people.
    Honestly, the big guys are pretty clueless when it comes to this type of stuff. No innovation, nothing new, most customer service operations are completely backwards. Your right though, making these type of adjustments are not cheap, however failing to do so is going to be far more costly (for both the consumer and company).

  20. #20
    Hosting aside, I doubt how many people even take time to read the prescription on their drugs?

    Once it is being prescribed by the Doctor, it doesn't matter what the manufacturer says.

    Its same with the hosting industry. Tell the clients just what is necessary.
    If $1/mo gets me "UNLIMITed" they don't give a damn about I/O or CPU.

    BUT THEY GIVE A DAMN WHEN THEIR SITE LOADS SLOWLY.

  21. #21
    I believe consumers to web hosting know a lot more about Shared web hosting but not such much about unmanaged/managed VPS hosting so what I did was not overload the Shared web hosting page with too much information, but I put detailed information on our VPS hosting page, and as many don't have time to read at work/home we even made sure the content was readable on mobile/tablet devices. I think I got the balance right for non-techy and techy users.

    Regarding shared web hosting; we're not going to bother with "unlimited" or even "unmetered" terms as we prefer our customers to know exactly how much diskspace and bandwidth they can use. As for resources, we use good hardware and charge realistic prices and so we let our customers use as much resources as they need as long as it isn't affecting other customers services.

  22. #22
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    Many of our customers go through something like this:

    If 9 providers mention how much bandwidth I can use monthly and the 10th provider doesn't, guess which one doesn't make the next round?

    That 10th provider might have a very good explanation somewhere, telling my why a bandwidth limit isn't relevant, but I'll never read that. I'm looking for a one-click wordpress install, not a climate-change analysis-cluster. I have 20 minutes before dinner to get my blog running.

    Unlimited is not really unlimited? Gosh. Yeah, I know that, I'm not an idiot. It just means that I won't get charged extra fees if I suddenly use a lot of data. They may squeeze my bandwidth or even shut me down, but that's still better than getting billed. I could get hacked you know.

    I make hundreds of decisions each and every day. I can't possibly research them all properly. For some of you the specs of your hosting plan are important, business-critical even. For me it really doesn't matter. As long as grandma can read my holiday blog I'm good.


    It's hard to argue against such reasoning, at least for most smaller customers. If your hosting doesn't affect your income, your reputation, etc. how important can it really be?

    That said, yes, there is a group of customers that should know better. People who try to build their entire business on a $10 hosting plan and get pissed when it doesn't work out. I think this is a relatively small, be it very loud, group though. In my experience they're not worth educating either.

  23. #23
    Whilst I'm a strong believer in educating people - it should be noted that people in general don't want to spend time learning web hosting. They want their site on the internet - and that's about it. It's one thing you're targetting newcomers, but if you're not, you're just throwing way too much information at them, which will drive them away rather than pull them toward you.

    To give a concise example - looking at your website Fernfully, even though the content appears valuable, I was unable to keep my attention at the text for long enough to even finish reading step 1. I'm sure that might be slightly different for someone who's genuinly interested in the content - but I'm just saying, keeping the attentionspan of someone whilst educating them in an area they're not genuinly interested in being educated in - not to mention people who already know it and who simply look for specifications, is.. Difficult, to say the least.

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    I think the worst one is when someone goes beyond shared hosting onto things like vps hosting. What vps companies fail to forget is that most people buying a vps are only upgrading because they've outgrown their shared hosting. The majority of those users really do have no idea about anything beyond shared hosting because no vps company explains that. They throw meaningless statistics to an end-user who probably has no clue what they actually need, all they do know is that they've outgrown their shared hosting. Throwing terms like "2GB RAM, 4vcpu's etc" to someone who has only ever used a shared hosting environment, not only confuses them but usually ends up either putting them off, or they end up buying the wrong product. It reminds me of how linux works, beginner tutorials to linux exist, advanced tutorials exist, but for **** sake, why the hell is it just assumed that once you're past the basics and try to follow any "intermediate tutorial" it's assumed that you know exactly what it's talking about when reality is you've learnt what a webserver is, SSH and basic cli , but the next step up is how to create a vm with vmware, there's no middle ground. I know I've digressed here, but my point is that in my head what I've just said relates strongly to hosting. one second someone's mastered the basics of shared hosting for instance, they want to take a step-up to vps, and all these terms they've never heard before are being thrown at them by companies, even through live-chat the technicians have a way of not explaining it simply even if you state you have no clue what the hell they're talking about. So many hosting companies don't teach their clients what they truly need, and I think if they did, customers would be so much happier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightWeb View Post
    Whilst I'm a strong believer in educating people - it should be noted that people in general don't want to spend time learning web hosting. They want their site on the internet - and that's about it. It's one thing you're targetting newcomers, but if you're not, you're just throwing way too much information at them, which will drive them away rather than pull them toward you.
    I see some of the logic in this, however you have to keep in mind that if you want to be successful in any business, you need and must do things differently. The internet is new, nobody knows what they need to know, therefore it is your job (literally) as a provider to educate the consumer (if you want to be successful).

    Quote Originally Posted by MightWeb View Post
    1. I'm sure that might be slightly different for someone who's genuinly interested in the content - but I'm just saying, keeping the attentionspan of someone whilst educating them in an area they're not genuinly interested in being educated in - not to mention people who already know it and who simply look for specifications, is.. Difficult, to say the least.
    This might be the case for you, but its not the case for everyone. Different users, require trying to capture the entire audience (not just a percentage as you are suggesting).

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