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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaAnime View Post
    I guess if you did limited verifying it'd be OK.

    Again, this doesn't help much since we've seen multiple large hosts go belly in the past year.

    Francisco
    True, you will never be able to offer assurances or guarantees, hosts will still go down the chute as they always have in every sector of business when they were seemingly doing ok.

    But something that most seem to agree on is simply that the client quality from WHT is pretty much **** these days and getting worse.

    WHT has lost most of it's quality and it's getting worse all the time, also agreed from most that the Corporate membership really offers little benefit especially for the increased cost coming.

    The truth here is that more and more are giving that badge up so the cost is being increased to compensate.

    The cost of being a paying member is increasing, the quality of the posting population and client base is decreasing.

    Something needs to give. Little has changed here over many years, we keep hearing "tell us what you want" but seeing nothing returned.

  2. #102
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    Part of the issue is all the providers that have only enough time to post things like "what's your budget" and include a signature. That in itself is harming the quality of the forum. Self inflicted.

    There's a host of hosts, and more starting up all the time. The new ones think they need to compete on price. $1 year for unlimited they can't deliver and hooray, we're a business! The more that offer those, the more that show up to buy those. No checking, just "who's cheapest?". They either turn out to be fraud/spammers/scammers or the "host" does. Forum quality suffers as a result, as does customer quality.
    Not what I'd call a result of anything we've done, other than being popular enough to attract so many new "hosts" that it's harming things.
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    Part of the issue is all the providers that have only enough time to post things like "what's your budget" and include a signature. That in itself is harming the quality of the forum. Self inflicted.

    There's a host of hosts, and more starting up all the time. The new ones think they need to compete on price. $1 year for unlimited they can't deliver and hooray, we're a business! The more that offer those, the more that show up to buy those. No checking, just "who's cheapest?". They either turn out to be fraud/spammers/scammers or the "host" does. Forum quality suffers as a result, as does customer quality.
    Not what I'd call a result of anything we've done, other than being popular enough to attract so many new "hosts" that it's harming things.
    WHT isn't at fault since WHT doesn't run any hosting brands. If WHT ran a half dozen cages and sold servers that fed on those bottom feeders, then sure, they'd be at least partially at fault.

    There's been a comment/request a few times now where people said 'make people hide their sigs in the VPS/webhosting discussion sections', just to see how many people would still take part.

    I wouldn't doubt a very large portion of WHT's traffic is inbound search engine hits, so the admins/owners going HAM on some of these sections isn't going to really hurt the community, if anything it'd probably help curb where some of the market has been heading.

    That's my take on it at least

    Francisco
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    Part of the issue is all the providers that have only enough time to post things like "what's your budget" and include a signature. That in itself is harming the quality of the forum. Self inflicted.

    There's a host of hosts, and more starting up all the time. The new ones think they need to compete on price. $1 year for unlimited they can't deliver and hooray, we're a business! The more that offer those, the more that show up to buy those. No checking, just "who's cheapest?". They either turn out to be fraud/spammers/scammers or the "host" does. Forum quality suffers as a result, as does customer quality.
    Not what I'd call a result of anything we've done, other than being popular enough to attract so many new "hosts" that it's harming things.
    Indeed, however one of more obvious ways of tackling some of this has been suggested several times over the years and again here.

    For normal members, you can post in the offers section less frequently, perhaps once or twice a month, premium more so and corporate more so again. Thinning out the offers in this way will generate more income from memberships but those $1 hosts won't be able to afford that investment and thus we will see them less frequently.

    Of course that will not necessarily increase the number of quality providers or sensible offers but thinning out the crud is a necessary evil to reward the paying membership for longer visibility of their offers.

    I still believe that value in terms of posts is driven by the community view. A reputation system where people can add or subtract is a valuable thing more especially for a forum like this.

    If your next post is "Hi, good luck with finding your new host" and that gets down voted several times because it was clearly just a signature spam then those people will soon learn to stop doing that.

    You don't want red banners next to your username that says people don't rate you posts and you especially don't want it visible beside your name in an offer thread.

    Never mind reporting everything you see, let the community vote on whether a post has value. The whole thumbs up thing was a waste of time and effort.

    Edit:

    And of course it provides the incentive for people to post interesting, informative and useful posts to get a better reputation which increases quality levels and feels like a reward to get people up voting your posts.
    Last edited by ~Lee~; 02-10-2015 at 07:35 PM.

  5. #105
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    Feb 2013
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    283
    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    People are paying $4000 / month to get a sticky post in some sub forums. Are those people crazy? It all depends on the customer lifetime value. One customer may keep a server for 12 months. If that server costs $150 / mo, that's $1800 in revenue. A lot of hosts have idle inventory so that extra sale may well go straight to the bottom line. It doesn't take many sales to make the $4000 / mo sticky make sense, let alone the far more affordable corporate membership. If you're not getting an extra 1 sale a year from posting every 3 days instead of every 7 days, maybe you should do everyone a favor and stop advertising on WHT because it's obviously not working for you.
    Common gripe I hear is the QUALITY of customers that are generated from WHT leads. There are issues with buy-in amounts, short retention, high fraud/abuse. Much of this is VPS specific.

    The $3k a month pin stick is more suitable for dedis or colo in my opinion, but I haven't a clue of the prices for different categories.

    Do the math on VPS income even on managed plans, stick it with 3 month retention to be kind. Even if squeezing $20 out on profit side, talking about 50 signups to break even on 3 month retention. $20 profit is way gracious for most and 3 month retention is becoming more uncommon.

    Issue remains that WHT runs an open market and no great advantage in membership aside from greater frequency in ad posting - for most. More is NOT better, in opposite actually, and this applies to members and non members - to everyone posting offers.

    Companies need to step up their offers. Better messaging, better offers (not just cheaper) and keep things fresh. I see survival re-posting of ads all the time and lots of ads that just very flawed / unprofessional. Discouraging heated comments on the ads also encourages more of the bad behavior by bad hosts.

  6. #106
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    Feb 2013
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    283
    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lee~ View Post
    Perhaps the price increase should also include WHT actually making the effort to properly verify a "corporate" member in that some DD is carried out to give additional comfort to those who want to buy from them.

    Premium and Corporate badges give a false sense of "These people must be ok to buy from". Well it used to at least.
    This is a very valid point. I point you to the vpsBoard folks and their screening for Verified Status (which is free, but has some benefits):

    https://vpsboard.com/topic/127-becom...fied-provider/

  7. #107
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    Interesting thread. Has that old time WHT feel about it.

    Didn't know Dennis was getting off the horse hanging up his guns. All the best with those health issues Dennis. Our body is an amazing machine, but not so much fun when things start malfunctioning!!

    Congrats to iNET on the buyout too.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Lee~ View Post
    That could be for example that you pay the office $50 and hand over all your company documents and personal details for directors. The aim is to confirm the company is legit, pays taxes, the people are real, linked to the company and checked out, yada yada.

    It may take on a different form, I have not really thought it through, I just come up with the ideas, WHT makes enough money to figure it through.

    It's not an endorsement, just a checklist to confirm to the prospective client that the house is in order as best as can be identified. Only the genuine ones will want to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    While I'm sure they'd be happy to discuss additional fees, I'm just as sure that's a lot more than $50 work, records keeping and additional liability.

    ^^^^^^ That's it right there...and that's why some things slide a little. Saying it in the nicest way without being sent to the corner

    Put the onus on the person signing up. The music industry has a similar approach and has been in place from when I started.....in 1993...and that was for a small project. Who knows how long they had that process beforehand.

    I know it sounds simple...but the paperwork we had to fill out....let's just say you had to put aside 48 hours or more to make sure it was all correct. If you really want access to those resources, one WILL put aside those 48+ hours to fill out the forms....BUT...now those forms are online...to fill out for free (or you could still do the paper method for $25).

    It's basic questions like;

    Artist/Group Name (Host company name)
    Members (people running the host)
    Based (where is your company located)
    Type of music/genre (what are selling shared, vps, servers, etc)
    Performances ( where are your servers or accounts located)
    Estimate of how many cd's sold (estimate of customers)


    **** This could also include searching the forum to see if there's been any complaints about this company.



    I don't remember all the questions, but fly-by nights wouldn't be able to fill out the form...and if they did, they would get a polite response saying why they were not accepted. For instance needing to have performed for 2 years and you only did a year and 3 months. Contact us later and we will review your application.

    Also...applications took 6-8 weeks to process. A serious artist WILL wait those 6-8 weeks. If a company is serious about hosting, they WILL wait 6-8 weeks. 6-8 weeks is a miniscule fraction of time if your running a company...and those weeks really fly by......of course if you're "running a company" when your 17, 6-8 weeks would still feel like a lifetime. The point of running or opening a company is to have something sustainable for many years. Plus the submissions really took a few minutes to verify.

  9. #109
    New color on corp membership username... good? bad? opinions/ideas?
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by [HB]Andrei View Post
    New color on corp membership username... good? bad? opinions/ideas?
    Worth?

    Francisco
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by [HB]Andrei View Post
    New color on corp membership username... good? bad? opinions/ideas?
    Woah when did that happen - Orange! It definitely stands out on a primarily blue website...
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by [HB]Andrei View Post
    New color on corp membership username... good? bad? opinions/ideas?
    So now we can see customers yelling at an Orange profile instead a Blue Profile. That should help!


  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by 48-14 View Post
    So now we can see customers yelling at an Orange profile instead a Blue Profile. That should help!

    I do prefer the orange but I hate the bright green for Community Guide & Content Curators ... Someone needs some taste

  14. #114
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    I like it...
    Respectfully,
    Mr. Terrence

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licensecart-Mike View Post
    I do prefer the orange but I hate the bright green for Community Guide & Content Curators ... Someone needs some taste
    Confused me when I saw it as guides have historically been orange(ish)...bit of a doubletake with the person involved

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Licensecart-Mike View Post
    I do prefer the orange but I hate the bright green for Community Guide & Content Curators ... Someone needs some taste
    Community Guide & Content Curators needs more contrast against the light background colour. I have to squint to read them

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by LampNetworks View Post
    Community Guide & Content Curators needs more contrast against the light background colour. I have to squint to read them
    I just don't look at the bottom now lol, why couldn't they be something like Purple or a different green

  18. #118
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    I like the new colour!
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  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Licensecart-Mike View Post
    I do prefer the orange but I hate the bright green for Community Guide & Content Curators ... Someone needs some taste
    And that is all I see here now with a Nexus 7 tablet. The corporate badges aren't being displayed on this mobile device.

  20. #120
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    Nov 2012
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    In Offers section a simple note like "[CORPORATE]"(in orange colour) before actual advertisement title could bring a lot more attention. I am currently happy with my Premium membership and I post ads every 6-7 days, I only hope my company and other non-corporate companies won't be buried after Corporate's get their features.

    I know this won't happen, but Corporate membership pricing should be based on company income. I believe no big and stable business/company will have problem paying additional 20%, while small businesses/companies will be hit the most with that percentage. I a have feeling like all those who want more features, can actually pay additional 20% and still generate good profit, but they want everything handed to them.

    I don't mean to offend anyone, this is just my honest opinion.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReliableCore View Post
    In Offers section a simple note like "[CORPORATE]"(in orange colour) before actual advertisement title could bring a lot more attention. I am currently happy with my Premium membership and I post ads every 6-7 days, I only hope my company and other non-corporate companies won't be buried after Corporate's get their features.

    I know this won't happen, but Corporate membership pricing should be based on company income. I believe no big and stable business/company will have problem paying additional 20%, while small businesses/companies will be hit the most with that percentage. I a have feeling like all those who want more features, can actually pay additional 20% and still generate good profit, but they want everything handed to them.

    I don't mean to offend anyone, this is just my honest opinion.
    By marking 'corporate' in the title/etc you're more or less making the Corporate badge a mark of trust/etc from WHT.

    Basing it on income is also silly. Why should I pay more to have the same access as someone else? Not only do many of the newer hosts go hardcore deep discounts to try to cover their dues, now we're stuck paying 20% more than them too?

    It's a very fast way to bleed memberships and completely devalue what little we get with corp already.

    Since the new owners are doing this purely as a business thing and not to 'better the community' (no one wants your 'new' features, we still dont have the old ones we were promised and been paying for years for), then the new owners should do right by the corporate's and make it worth it to have.

    Chop back non membership users heavily to 4 weeks, push premiums back to 8 - 10 days, push corps back to 4 days.

    It chops back the mountain of offers that get dumped in there and gives us some value in our new found price increases.

    Francisco
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  22. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaAnime View Post
    By marking 'corporate' in the title/etc you're more or less making the Corporate badge a mark of trust/etc from WHT.

    Basing it on income is also silly. Why should I pay more to have the same access as someone else? Not only do many of the newer hosts go hardcore deep discounts to try to cover their dues, now we're stuck paying 20% more than them too?

    It's a very fast way to bleed memberships and completely devalue what little we get with corp already.

    Since the new owners are doing this purely as a business thing and not to 'better the community' (no one wants your 'new' features, we still dont have the old ones we were promised and been paying for years for), then the new owners should do right by the corporate's and make it worth it to have.

    Chop back non membership users heavily to 4 weeks, push premiums back to 8 - 10 days, push corps back to 4 days.

    It chops back the mountain of offers that get dumped in there and gives us some value in our new found price increases.

    Francisco

    This is very true, the only one real value of Corp Membership is the lesser time between advertising posts... but this is all buried under mountains of other posts.

    A new structure in time between posts for normal/premium/corp would indeed be a great thing and would increase the value of the Corp Membership.
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by [HB]Andrei View Post
    This is very true, the only one real value of Corp Membership is the lesser time between advertising posts... but this is all buried under mountains of other posts.

    A new structure in time between posts for normal/premium/corp would indeed be a great thing and would increase the value of the Corp Membership.
    That's all any corporate's want. I'm positive the amount of corp's signing up for word alerts is extremely low, if non existent.

    The only other feature I'd love to see is the company accounts one but that got rolled out and into a trash bin within the same week.

    Francisco
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaAnime View Post
    we still dont have the old ones we were promised and been paying for years for
    What would they be?

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon-e-mouse View Post
    What would they be?
    Company accounts?

    That ones been promised/hinted/etc for ages.

    We sent an email for it way back in the day and were told the only person that's able to enable it was on vacation and given i've seen no one else with it, it's safe to assume it's not prime time ready like the roll out hinted.

    Francisco
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