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  1. #1

    onAPP Not worth it? Cloudtack or openstack?

    We have been using and selling onAPP cloud and after around 6 months of using it I realize it's more eye candy than it is useful for a productive business ROI. The idea, generally, as you get more customers the cost of the software should go down on the back-end and ROI should increase.

    This just doesn't seem to be the case. As you grow, you pay more money to onAPP and the ROI seems to just increase by a few percent.

    Anyone else feels this way?

    I've been looking at open source cloud plat forms such as openstak or cloudstack which both seems great. At this pointy I'm just looking for recommendations to decide what I'm going to do.

    Any and all thoughts appreciated.

  2. #2
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    I think that's related on your business model. How many core you had in the cloud?

    If you watch on price per core you need at least 500 cpu core to go down $10/socket. On big enviroment they go down well. If you had 5 or 10 nodes you can't really expect discounts, OnAPP had different customer target then most virt panel that work with startup or little companies.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by MatteoB View Post
    I think that's related on your business model. How many core you had in the cloud?

    If you watch on price per core you need at least 500 cpu core to go down $10/socket. On big enviroment they go down well. If you had 5 or 10 nodes you can't really expect discounts, OnAPP had different customer target then most virt panel that work with startup or little companies.
    It's a lot more than 5- 10 nodes. The idea was to assign 4 racks full (48u) to onAPP. We were going to develop it and basically just use that to sell our services. We'd still have regular Dedicated servers, etc..but the we were trying to consolidate everything under one "Umbrella" so to speak.

  4. #4
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    have you sent a quote request to their sales? We had good deals on Premium package
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by MatteoB View Post
    have you sent a quote request to their sales? We had good deals on Premium package
    Have I contacted them? Is that what you're asking? I'm sorry I didn't understand...

  6. #6
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    yes, if you contact onapp sales you can get discounted price that will help you to had better revenue
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by MatteoB View Post
    yes, if you contact onapp sales you can get discounted price that will help you to had better revenue
    Yes I have been in contact with them before this version started....I haven't come to an amicable solution with them in regards to my ROI so here I am asking about Clouidstack or Openstack.

    I'm not saying they are bad, I'm really not. I'm just saying that the more you sell should give you a better deal on the backed to sell more and get a higher profit margin...

  8. #8
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    If you find a good alternative let us know. I personally have been looking for a good pricing model for the AMD systems with a lot of cores. The pricing models a lot of cloud software providers have created pretty much makes that impossible.]

    Can't remember which one it is but one of those free ones you mention has a control panel and system made from a third party that gets it setup really quickly. I would like to say this http://software.mirantis.com/key-rel.../project-fuel/ but I'm not positive.
    Last edited by techjr; 05-22-2014 at 07:49 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by techjr View Post
    If you find a good alternative let us know. I personally have been looking for a good pricing model for the AMD systems with a lot of cores. The pricing models a lot of cloud software providers have created pretty much makes that impossible.
    Thank you! I mean most of my servers have around 12 to 24 cores and they want you to pay per core. that's just ridiculous!

    I'll update the thread if I find a suitable solution .. right now I'm looking at Cloudstack and Openstack.

  10. #10
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    oh yes understood. For my opinion onapp is the best solution for support/features and is ready to sell.

    Openstack is my 2nd choice, is very stable and had very active development. Now some software house are developing modules around it, for example hostbill had great module (but is costly). Some weeks ago modulesgarden developed a module for openstack and whmcs, take a look: http://www.modulesgarden.com/product...k_vps/features

    i had good impression on flexiant orchestra, take a look: http://www.flexiant.com
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  11. #11
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    Have you checked out any VMWare solutions? Solution Providers pay for amount of memory, no crazy per core licensing. They work on a points system. You buy a pack of points and the more points you buy, the cheaper it is.

  12. #12
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    Has anyone checked out the Ubuntu, Maas, juju, openstack setup? Just curious if it works well?

    Seems easy to manage according to the video in the site, never used it, but considering testing it out.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quartet-Andrew View Post
    Have you checked out any VMWare solutions? Solution Providers pay for amount of memory, no crazy per core licensing. They work on a points system. You buy a pack of points and the more points you buy, the cheaper it is.
    You get vCloud Director included in the price, but there are other factors to consider

    http://www.flexiant.com/2013/10/23/7...loud-director/

    We had hoped to use OnApp for our VMware platform, but it just hasn't worked out. I wont go into too much detail here but we have been seriously let down by them.

    Their XEN support is excellent though. There are considerations such as billing and how you want to present access to customers but the latest WHMCS module is fairly good.

    There is value in paying for that orchestration layer and can save you a lot of money in other development and support costs.

    However depending on the product you are selling, if you are competing with some of the very low cost VM's the per core model doesn't fit very well. It forces providers to push consolidation ratios higher and higher.

    Maybe a per VM model option would be nice
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by HostNIT View Post
    Yes I have been in contact with them before this version started....I haven't come to an amicable solution with them in regards to my ROI so here I am asking about Clouidstack or Openstack.

    I'm not saying they are bad, I'm really not. I'm just saying that the more you sell should give you a better deal on the backed to sell more and get a higher profit margin...
    We're happy to work on pricing with clients for large scale installs.
    We've done pay-as-you-go deals, flat-rate, no-commit, 5 years commit, site-wide licenses etc etc - you name it ... we've done it.

    We will not loose a large deal because of price. Let me know if you'd want to discuss this more...
    Ditlev Bredahl. CEO,
    OnApp.com + Cloud.net & CDN.net

  15. #15
    Onapp is for the big pocket guys, openstack not friendly at all, cloudstack is limited because you can't use ISCSI directly with KVM virtualization.

    All and all I prefer Ovirt.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by athuey View Post
    Onapp is for the big pocket guys, openstack not friendly at all, cloudstack is limited because you can't use ISCSI directly with KVM virtualization.

    All and all I prefer Ovirt.

    Have you used this in n enterprise production market? Is there any module for WHMCS or auto provisioning?

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HostNIT View Post
    Have you used this in n enterprise production market? Is there any module for WHMCS or auto provisioning?
    Yes, I use Ovirt in production environments and have been doing so for a few years mostly to run private clouds. There is not module for whmcs, however ovirt provide an API so if anybody is really interesting in creating the module can do so

  18. #18
    I completed a test installation of Openstack and it seems to be pretty good so far. I'll update this thread when testing is fully completed.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HostNIT View Post
    I completed a test installation of Openstack and it seems to be pretty good so far. I'll update this thread when testing is fully completed.
    We're extremely happy operating OpenStack, there's nothing it can't do and there's nothing we can't make it do, because of the fact that it's open source.
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  20. #20
    You must have virtualization-enabled processors to use them with a cloud software? is there a cloud software to be used with intel processors which do not have VT enabled?

  21. #21
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    Off the top of my head, VT came in with the Xeon 5400 series - so to get an Intel CPU without it you'd have to go back to the Xeon 5300 which is ancient. Anything without VT support is also going to be have massive virtualisation overhead and you might as well just throw in the bin - due to age and power usage, plus the poor performance you'll get, you'd get your money back in a couple of months on using something modern with VT support.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HostNIT View Post
    We have been using and selling onAPP cloud and after around 6 months of using it I realize it's more eye candy than it is useful for a productive business ROI. The idea, generally, as you get more customers the cost of the software should go down on the back-end and ROI should increase.

    This just doesn't seem to be the case. As you grow, you pay more money to onAPP and the ROI seems to just increase by a few percent.

    Anyone else feels this way?

    I've been looking at open source cloud plat forms such as openstak or cloudstack which both seems great. At this pointy I'm just looking for recommendations to decide what I'm going to do.

    Any and all thoughts appreciated.
    Have you check out Parallels Cloud Server & Parallels Cloud Storage ?
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  23. #23
    I think that's related on your business model. How many core you had in the cloud?

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