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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    5,079

    Cleaning IPs from Verizon blacklist

    I hate it when ISPs don't use professionally maintained IP blacklists for e-mail, but try to maintain their own. Invariably they haven't got as many resources or as much experience as people like Spamhaus, so they don't do it as well.

    This time it's Verizon. On the few occasions I've had IPs end up on other RBLs I've had no trouble cleaning up. Most RBLs usually have a publicised route to follow, and once you've shown them that you've solved any issues that caused the blacklisting they remove you. Not so Verizon.

    I thought I'd post to see if anyone has experience in how to clean IPs from their internal blacklists. I could do with some tips from those who have been there before me.

    Here's what happens: If someone tries to send an e-mail to a Verizon address, they reject the SMTP connection with the following message:
    SMTP error from remote mail server after initial connection: host relay.verizon.net [206.46.232.11]: 571 Email from {IP - redacted} is currently blocked by Verizon Online's anti-spam system. The email sender or Email Service Provider may visit http://www.verizon.net/whitelist and request removal of the block.
    So I, and two other support staff, have completed the form at the /whitelist address they gave. We've also sent an e-mail to whitelist@verizon.net, which I found somewhere as another communication channel for this. Wait a week. Nothing. No feedback. No rejection of the request to whitelist. No requests for further information. Yada. Silence. For 7 days. And the IP is still blacklisted.

    Now here's the thing: I know (and I've double-checked) that no spam has gone out from the server. A month back I had an issue with one client receiving backscatter e-mails, as e-mails on their domain were being used for spoofed "from" addresses on someone else's spam campaign. They were bouncing those backscatters. That has been long-since fixed, and only occurred for a couple of days. A month-old issue like that shouldn't trigger two weeks (and counting) blacklist from Verizon.

    But here's what's so frustrating:
    • I'm getting no feedback from them at all. I get no information about why they're blacklisting. So I can't investigate whatever they think the problem is. I'm willing to work with them to eliminate actual or apparent spam - but I can't do it in the dark. I need some kind of feedback loop on reported spam.
    • The problem has been going on for 7+ days, which means they've had no mail from the server concerned for that long. That means they've not had any spam for that amount of time. Eventually, you'd have thought the IP address would just drop off their blacklist: no spam for 7 days = clean. But again, they don't give any indication of what they've looking for at that level.
    • They completely ignore my requests to whitelist. They may just be slow, but 7 days with silence from them is way too slow to work with. I shouldn't have to wait for the IP address to drop off their blacklist. It should be possible to demonstrate that the problem mails have been stopped, and to get clean.
    • I can't even find out if it's actually my IP they don't like, or if there's a bad neighbour in a CIDR block and I'm caught up in someone else's problem.

    They're extremely frustrating to work with, as they do not set up any kind of two-way communication.

    Does this seem familiar to anyone? Did you find a way to contact them that was effective in getting the blacklist cleared?
    Not as active on WHT as I used to be, but still drop in and receive email notifications from here.
    My personal blog site: https://www.oakleys.org.uk/blog

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana, USA
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    19,178
    Your best bet is to change the mailing IP until at which time it's resolved.

    Maybe try to get with Verizon Corporate - but best of luck. Unless you're a HUGE corporation and wanting to spend $$$,$$$ with them your contact will likely fall on deaf ears as you will never get to a party that actually understands the issue nor how to resolve it.
    Michael Denney - MDDHosting.com - Proudly hosting more than 37,800 websites since 2007.
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Canada
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    3,785
    Verizon RBL is just one example of the many poorly ran but frequently used RBL's. The best part? You're to blame for this if your users can't get their email to those verizon email inboxes.

    My suggestion just switch the IP the server is mailing from and move on. Eventually verizon will update you and remove the block but you're looking at weeks for them to do anything.
    Tony B. - Chief Executive Officer
    Hawk Host Inc. Proudly serving websites since 2004
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    5,079
    Thanks Tony and Mike

    That's a slightly depressing answer, tbh. It did sound like routing the mail through a secondary IP may be the answer. It feels like a cop out that risks only working temporarily.

    It might also lead to far more deliverability problems than it solves. Anyone who uses SPF (which everyone should), and who relies on "+A" to do most of the work, will start to get bounces if they also use "-all". I'm sure your can guess, as well as I can, the proportion of users who would update that in response to a mass mail explaining the change.

    I'll think on. If anyone here has contacts in Verizon, feel free to wade in!
    Not as active on WHT as I used to be, but still drop in and receive email notifications from here.
    My personal blog site: https://www.oakleys.org.uk/blog

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana, USA
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    19,178
    Quote Originally Posted by OakHosting_James View Post
    That's a slightly depressing answer, tbh. It did sound like routing the mail through a secondary IP may be the answer. It feels like a cop out that risks only working temporarily.
    It will only be as temporary as it takes to either resolve the Verizon black list or until the new IP gets listed. One you have control over, the other you do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by OakHosting_James View Post
    It might also lead to far more deliverability problems than it solves. Anyone who uses SPF (which everyone should), and who relies on "+A" to do most of the work, will start to get bounces if they also use "-all".
    This is why I would generally advise using an _spf.some-domain-you-control.com and advising users to include it this way you can include and exclude IPs as necessary without updating individual records. Work smarter, not harder.

    Quote Originally Posted by OakHosting_James View Post
    I'm sure your can guess, as well as I can, the proportion of users who would update that in response to a mass mail explaining the change.
    Which is why the above mentioned solution is ideal by comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by OakHosting_James View Post
    I'll think on. If anyone here has contacts in Verizon, feel free to wade in!
    I doubt you'll have any luck in that regard - more luck banging your head against a wall and hoping that resolves your issue.
    Michael Denney - MDDHosting.com - Proudly hosting more than 37,800 websites since 2007.
    Ultra-Fast Cloud Shared and Pay-By-Use Reseller Hosting Powered by LiteSpeed!
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    5,079
    Mike

    Helpful as always - I appreciate it. Especially the advice on how to advise people set up SPF records. Obvious really - I already do the equivalent for my own domains, so it's just a matter of setting up the same system for everyone else.

    I'm now set to resolve this frustrating situation. Thanks, both, again.
    Not as active on WHT as I used to be, but still drop in and receive email notifications from here.
    My personal blog site: https://www.oakleys.org.uk/blog

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    5,079
    Time to come back here and update this thread.

    It turned out that changing the outgoing IP was not an easy solution either. It would have been for a host with a larger network, but in my case Verizon had blocked a whole IP range. That nearly confirms what I already suspected - a subnet was blocked that included the IP in question, but not because of any activity on my blocked IP. All of the available IPs that I could have used for routing outbound mail also turned out to be blocked.

    However I found a communication channel that, in the end, turned out to be helpful. Tech support agents can pick up issues within Verizon's forums and turn them into private-area support tickets. I posted in the forum and requested an agent to reach out to me, and they did. We were able to collect all the relevant information about the server, its DNS setup, and its email use. The agent who helped me then acted as a go-between between me and their e-mail whitelisting team. Within a few hours, they had lifted their block.

    If, in the future, others are having difficulty with Verizon's whitelist form, I hope this thread is helpful for you.
    Not as active on WHT as I used to be, but still drop in and receive email notifications from here.
    My personal blog site: https://www.oakleys.org.uk/blog

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    478

    Arrow Response

    Thank you very much for following up on your experience and telling us how you solved it. At least I know now there is hope when it comes to getting white listed with Verizon.

    We just purchased a new server and the IPs that came with it were already blacklisted with Verizon. So hopefully your advise will avoid us having to so quickly drop a newly purchased server.

    Thanks.
    Deasoft.com Aussie & USA VPS, Reseller & Shared Hosting + WHMreseller & DAreseller
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    5,079
    I hope it helps - good luck getting your block cleaned.
    Not as active on WHT as I used to be, but still drop in and receive email notifications from here.
    My personal blog site: https://www.oakleys.org.uk/blog

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