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  1. #1
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    Question Experiences with GTT / Tinet / nLayer | Chicago / Midwest

    Can anyone comment on their experiences with GTT, Tinet or nLayer? We are looking at purchasing IP transit from them out of Chicago in 350 E Cermak.

    More specifically, how is their peering status with Comcast, Verizon, AT&T, TWC, etc? I am looking at throughput and latency. Please also comment on their support and responsiveness.

    Thanks for your time!
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  2. #2
    First, which ASN are you looking at? My understanding is there are 2 different rates for the two networks (and if you aren't getting 2 rates, you are paying too much for the Tinet network).

    I cant comment on Chicago specifically but we do use them in a bunch of other markets and here is our experience with the Tinet network:
    Comcast - Generally pretty good, in fact very good for Comcast and the price of this bandwidth.
    AT&T - No issues that we have seen
    Verizon - Congested at peak times. Often not as much as some other networks. I believe the nLayer ASN is less (or not) congested.
    TWC - Not a peer on the Tinet network, so you would take a transit path (XO) that can sometimes be congested. I believe nlayer has direct peering but don't know the state of it.

  3. #3
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    @Xeon852,

    Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it! The Tinet is AS3257 and nLayer is AS4436. I initially was looking at nLayer, but my rep pushed Tinet. So I am open to both sides for now. I am waiting for clarification on the quote (as to which network it was for).
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  4. #4
    We are lighting up some TiNET ports soon. Did not go direct with GTT as got a better pricing though a reseller.

    As for nLayer, it is a great network, Seems like they changed the main transit AS they use. It used to be NTT, but now it seems to be mostly TiNET.

  5. #5
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    On the West coast for a while we noticed issues when they switched some of their network from Nlayer to Tinet. Example routing from Vancouver/BC to Seattle went all the way to California and back after their switch I believe it took about a month or two before it was fixed. It's back to being good again we have only have a few issues with them here and there but overall it's been pretty good.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey404 View Post
    We are lighting up some TiNET ports soon. Did not go direct with GTT as got a better pricing though a reseller.

    As for nLayer, it is a great network, Seems like they changed the main transit AS they use. It used to be NTT, but now it seems to be mostly TiNET.
    Which reseller did you talk to? Had great quotes direct.

    nLayer and TiNET are separate and still will be. nlayer changed a lot of their traffic from Global Crossing to TiNET though.

    The reps all push for TiNET as that's their main product but nlayer will still be sold and used for now.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerto49 View Post
    The reps all push for TiNET as that's their main product but nlayer will still be sold and used for now.
    Tinet is supposed to be true Tier 1 also (settlement-free), whereas nLayer has some transit, so nLayer presumably costs a bit more.

    I personally much prefer the heavily peered Tier2 model, as it gives you more direct routes. I can see how it would be more work to manage though, as you have to deal with hundreds of peers instead of just all the other Tier 1's.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by hhw View Post
    Tinet is supposed to be true Tier 1 also (settlement-free), whereas nLayer has some transit, so nLayer presumably costs a bit more.

    I personally much prefer the heavily peered Tier2 model, as it gives you more direct routes. I can see how it would be more work to manage though, as you have to deal with hundreds of peers instead of just all the other Tier 1's.
    They sell it for the same price. At least that's how much I could bargain both to. So if they have cost differences - they have some weird sales model.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by concerto49 View Post
    They sell it for the same price. At least that's how much I could bargain both to. So if they have cost differences - they have some weird sales model.
    Maybe I spoke too soon... nLayer may have to pay for some transit, but Tinet presumably has much more transport to maintain which is also expensive. The difference though is that it's probably more cost effective to scale up transport than transit.

    The reality is though, transit providers don't even know how much traffic really costs them at a granular level (speaking as someone who used to do this as part of my job), as it would cost more money than it's worth to track how far packets travel.
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  10. #10
    As was mentioned, I believe nlayer takes most of their transit routes through Tinet now (but still has NTT). So is it really a tier-2 if the tier-1 you use for transit is owned by the same company? Certainly there isn't much 'cost' there. I wouldn't attribute the cost difference to them being a tier-2.

    Tinet was really selling at bottom dollar wholesale prices pre-acquisition. I don't think GTT is interested in doing that. But you can't just take the same product and raise the price like crazy. There are great deals to be had with Tinet transit through resellers.

    I also thing nlayer was a better run network pre-acquisition - less congestion etc. Don't get me wrong, Tinet was a great deal and at the same price or less than Cogent or HE I would certainly choose Tinet, but like any of these bottom dollar networks you have to do a little work for them to work for you, and I would never take them as my only provider.

    As far as NTT vs Tinet transit, we've seen our share of congestion with NTT as well, so while the change may have caused a mess because it overloaded ports etc, I'm not sure long term its a big deal.

    For access to eyeball networks like you listed, I think I would rather be on nLayer. I think their peering is better for that. Worst case if they aren't peered to them you are taking the Tinet transit path, but Tinet doesn't transit nLayer for networks (not tier-1 obviously) that it is not connected to like TWC.

  11. #11
    You can get Tinet for cogent/he prices? What's the best price for a full gig that tinet will do?

  12. #12
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    The nLayer is sort of legacy at this point, GTT is focusing on the Tinet AS, as they should since it is a Tier 1 AS. We've moved our traffic from nLayer to Tinet because of growing issues with nLayer, but Tinet performance has been superb. I wouldn't be surprised to see GTT start merging networks into the Tinet AS in the near future.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by keefe007 View Post
    You can get Tinet for cogent/he prices? What's the best price for a full gig that tinet will do?
    Maybe the day that HE will do 95th billing without 4x the price we'll consider them competitive
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonsite View Post
    Can anyone comment on their experiences with GTT, Tinet or nLayer? We are looking at purchasing IP transit from them out of Chicago in 350 E Cermak.

    More specifically, how is their peering status with Comcast, Verizon, AT&T, TWC, etc? I am looking at throughput and latency. Please also comment on their support and responsiveness.

    Thanks for your time!
    We have some transit through 3257, and I can say it's pretty good for the price. Not as good as Level3, better than NTT.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    The nLayer is sort of legacy at this point, GTT is focusing on the Tinet AS, as they should since it is a Tier 1 AS. We've moved our traffic from nLayer to Tinet because of growing issues with nLayer, but Tinet performance has been superb. I wouldn't be surprised to see GTT start merging networks into the Tinet AS in the near future.
    I agree, the Tinet network has been great in our experience. Nlayer is just a mess everywhere.
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  16. #16
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    I'm waiting for pricing from GTT to see how much they want for a contract out of Dallas, I asked for pricing on the Tinet AS, not the nLayer AS.

    Providers I've used in the past, I've had great experience with Tinet.

  17. #17
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    Thanks everyone for your input, I greatly appreciate every single post!

    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    The nLayer is sort of legacy at this point, GTT is focusing on the Tinet AS, as they should since it is a Tier 1 AS. We've moved our traffic from nLayer to Tinet because of growing issues with nLayer, but Tinet performance has been superb. I wouldn't be surprised to see GTT start merging networks into the Tinet AS in the near future.
    Thanks for your input, Karl. Was hoping to hear from you since I know you are connected in the same POP we would be connected to. What type of issues have you seen with nLayer lately? I noticed your routes recently dropped out.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by scurvy View Post
    We have some transit through 3257, and I can say it's pretty good for the price. Not as good as Level3, better than NTT.
    Thanks for your opinion. Might end up going with Level 3. They have fiber in our facility, so it makes more sense to go direct and avoid having to pay for transport. We've been utilizing Level 3 through our data center's network, but would prefer to go direct for many reasons. Been reading stories on Level 3 over at Is Level3 the old Cogent and Cogent the new Level3?. NTT did recently contact me and gave me a quote, but GTT quoted me better on Tinet.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonsite View Post
    Thanks for your input, Karl. Was hoping to hear from you since I know you are connected in the same POP we would be connected to. What type of issues have you seen with nLayer lately? I noticed your routes recently dropped out.
    Congestion with certain peers resulting in some odd routes or packet loss. Nothing really major, but was getting annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasonsite View Post
    Thanks for your opinion. Might end up going with Level 3. They have fiber in our facility, so it makes more sense to go direct and avoid having to pay for transport. We've been utilizing Level 3 through our data center's network, but would prefer to go direct for many reasons. Been reading stories on Level 3 over at Is Level3 the old Cogent and Cogent the new Level3?. NTT did recently contact me and gave me a quote, but GTT quoted me better on Tinet.
    Level3 is solid. Yes, they're big so it can be a little bit of a hassle once in awhile, but nothing that has ever been a problem for us. They're clearly the #1 carrier, and are going to have higher pricing because of that as well. Right now, I'd be happy with Tinet over most anyone but Level3.
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