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  1. #1
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    Magento; Specialised hosting eg Properhost/Nexcess OR Wiredtree/KnownHost VPS ?????

    We all know magento needs some server specific tweaks and more resource allocations to let it rip.

    So the question is which would perform FASTER for about the same price?

    Hosting by a specialist provider such as ProperHost/Nexcess (both limiting number of clients to a server -PH going all the way down to 15) SimpleHelix?

    OR

    A VPS package from WiredTree/KnownHost/FutureHosting?


    Any rationale or real experiences for your comments eitherway?

  2. #2
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    This will depend on what kind of traffic do you have for your site/s.
    Specially 4 You
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by net View Post
    This will depend on what kind of traffic do you have for your site/s.
    New site so none at moment but hoping to build up very rapidly to 80/day visitors and then 150+/day. Bandwidth should be minimal so not really an issue.

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    Surely people have been in this exact conundrum or thought about it or been through the experience? Please post

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    New site so none at moment but hoping to build up very rapidly to 80/day visitors and then 150+/day. Bandwidth should be minimal so not really an issue.

    Wiredtree. They have been great to me in the past when I needed a VPS for exactly an eCommerce. Plus they are fully managed, meaning that they can do the tweaks your system requires and also recommend other conf based on the actual/current performance.


    When you are running this type of business (ecommerce) you need to make sure you choose a reliable company with proven record. In case you're considering other companies, you might want to check "what they include as fully managed and proactive services". Wiredtree will do proactive service monitoring and proactive security updates. Some other companies doesn't necessarily include these features.

    Whoever you choose, make sure you are comfortable. <-The most important thing.

  6. #6
    The tradeoff is in optimization vs how much you want managed.

    With a custom host for magento, they know and support optimizations for the application: proper cacheing and setup of apache/nginx/php-fpm etc.

    I use Wiredtree for all my vps's but they only manage what's available on WHM/cPanel, so your best bet would be to go for Litespeed on an SSD VPS. Or plan on managing some pieces yourself (like varnish or nginx in front of apache, or using nginx/php-fpm), that's what I do.

    (I do recommend WT in general)
    Last edited by avibodha; 01-28-2014 at 12:21 AM. Reason: recommendation

  7. #7
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    Lots of good advise in this thread.

    Be sure to check out demo's and example sites as well. There's also a well known Magento Speed Test site you can look at to get an idea of the competition in this field (http://www.magespeedtest.com).

    Magento is about quality tuning of the application to the server. You can't run a fast Magento site if your frontend is not designed for caching and you're not taking advantage of Edge Side Includes (ESI). You need to be with a host that understands Magento and has designed their infrastructure to accommodate it's heavy resource needs. Percona MySQL, LiteSpeed and a good amount of RAM with a fast CPU will take you a long ways at getting an optimized store - but, it really comes down to caching, configuration and design.

    Looks at tools like gtmetrix.com and loader.io to measure the performance of your host - A good host will have no problem working with you on these benchmarks to improve your page load speed. You should be introduced to Varnish, PageCache or Turpentine Extension for Magento as well as Redis for in memory page and session caching.

    Magento is not so much a resource hog - more about hosts not having the necessary resources to make applications like Magento fly. You can't do that on the cheap - period. If you are serious about your ecommerce business you'll find that spending a few extra bucks for highend CPU, RAM and pure SSD RAID systems is really a trivial exercise and that you will be rewarded with higher conversions and less cart abandonment.

    Magento may be a beast, but it's also a very powerful tool. Find a host who understands that and can demonstrate that understanding.
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  8. #8
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    Thanks for the posts guys.

    How would we find out which is higher performing though? Say for example a professional account at properhost $75/month (50 customers per server+everything else that I can see needed for fast magento) VS similar priced vps offering?

    magespped suggested by crucialwebhost shows both properhost and crucial as being top end providers based on transactions/s and s/transaction.

  9. #9
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    WiredTree, my 2 cents

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    We all know magento needs some server specific tweaks and more resource allocations to let it rip.

    So the question is which would perform FASTER for about the same price?

    Hosting by a specialist provider such as ProperHost/Nexcess (both limiting number of clients to a server -PH going all the way down to 15) SimpleHelix?

    OR

    A VPS package from WiredTree/KnownHost/FutureHosting?


    Any rationale or real experiences for your comments eitherway?
    You can purchase any basic VPS and backup plan with the cPanel control and make sure that you have configured the daily backup for the database and weekly backup for the files and if you face the web site performance issue, you can upgrade the RAM and CPU for your server. I have suggested the daily database because magento websites using the innoddb storage engine and many time, we have faced the innoddb corruption issue and its required the backup to recover the innod db in a few minutes only.
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  11. #11
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    Since your a 10 year member, I'm adding a bit to my previous comment.

    A host dedicated to your needs is usually the best, but if you have the experience and can build what you need, then why not.

    You just to factor in everything...the cost of a full dedicated solution, or possibly getting more resources than you would have from the dedicated solution BUT adding on your time to become the solution.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by avibodha View Post
    I use Wiredtree for all my vps's but they only manage what's available on WHM/cPanel, so your best bet would be to go for Litespeed on an SSD VPS. Or plan on managing some pieces yourself (like varnish or nginx in front of apache, or using nginx/php-fpm), that's what I do.(I do recommend WT in general)
    Thank you avibodha and everyone for the mentions in this thread. They are always appreciated. I did want to make one quick addition to what you had wrote last night though. Our fully managed services cover (at a minimum) everything pre-installed on your server. This means we go far above and beyond cPanel/WHM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by WiredTree James View Post
    Thank you avibodha and everyone for the mentions in this thread. They are always appreciated. I did want to make one quick addition to what you had wrote last night though. Our fully managed services cover (at a minimum) everything pre-installed on your server. This means we go far above and beyond cPanel/WHM.
    Are you implying that your vps offering is optimised for magento with litespeed, nginx, xcache, memcache and percona sql? Are all of them available and included?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    Are you implying that your vps offering is optimised for magento with litespeed, nginx, xcache, memcache and percona sql? Are all of them available and included?
    We do provide Litespeed licenses and fully support/install/manage Litespeed as well. We will support/install/manage/compile all opcode engines such as xcache/eaccelerator/APC etc, memcached PHP module and the memcached daemon service. In regards to percona, we fully Support MariaDB which uses Percona's XtraDB engine. The only thing on your list we don't fully support would be nginx because installing it as a standalone product will break cPanel functionality. I personally would not recommend buying a Litespeed license and then trying to reverse proxy nginx through it.
    Last edited by WiredTree James; 01-28-2014 at 12:20 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WiredTree James View Post
    We do provide Litespeed licenses and fully support/install/manage Litespeed as well. We will support/install/manage/compile all opcode engines such as xcache/eaccelerator/APC etc, memcached PHP module and the memcached daemon service. In regards to percona, we fully Support MariaDB which uses Percona's XtraDB engine. The only thing on your list we don't fully support would be nginx because installing it as a standalone product will break cPanel functionality. I personally would not recommend buying a Litespeed license and then trying to reverse proxy nginx through it.
    How much is litespeed?
    Are you able to set all the rest for optimised magento hosting?
    Presuming custom name servers are fine?
    Any indications of how many vps customers per server for each ssd vps package?
    Since no specific number of cores listed for each package how to judge real world performance differences?
    If you had to hazard a guess (unless you already know) which option would be faster? Specialised hosting or your vps?
    Do you have any hosted magento URL to check performance for?
    Which package would you recommend for my stated needs?

    Thanks

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    How much is litespeed?
    Litespeed would run $12 per license on VPS environments. At over 2GB of RAM, your server would require a "VPS Ultra" Litespeed license which runs $20 a month.

    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    Are you able to set all the rest for optimised magento hosting?
    While there are specific combinations and settings that work well for Magento and we are aware of those, we like to also approach optimization of your services by observing exactly how resources are being used. We then tune services individually. As an example, we are not afraid to dig into MySQL configuration optimization, work with Litespeed caching or install services like Memcached. How well your Magento installation runs requires complete awareness from software platform to server platform.

    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    Presuming custom name servers are fine?
    Custom nameservers are fine. You can use custom, remote and even WiredTree namesevers.

    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    Any indications of how many vps customers per server for each ssd vps package?
    If I understand correctly, we are known for not overselling. We concentrate purely on performance and because of this, we don't have a strict number of VPS clients per node.

    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    Since no specific number of cores listed for each package how to judge real world performance differences?
    You would have equal share CPU on our VPS nodes. CPU priority as a feature is also set depending on your pure SSD plan type. Keep in mind though that the CPU priority does not matter unless there is contention on the VPS node. To me, this means that when we are doing our jobs well, CPU priority should never need to matter to you. In regards to real world performance on the differing VPS packages, it's going to come down to available resources such as RAM and how they allow you to host more concurrent users or better take advantage of caching.

    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    If you had to hazard a guess (unless you already know) which option would be faster? Specialised hosting or your vps?
    This is a difficult question to answer because there are many open ends here. Performance is absolutely important but equally important is service. Is the specialized host available within seconds by phone? Do they own their own datacenter space? The price point also plays a roll. I wish I could give you an easy answer here but I can't. What I can tell you is that is that I deal with and talk to our in-house staff every single day of the week and that I have never worked with a group of people so skilled and so caring. This is proven with word of mouth and the support you have seen in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    Do you have any hosted magento URL to check performance for?
    Currently no, we sign a privacy agreement with all of ours clients and we are obligated under law not to give their information to outside parties.

    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    Which package would you recommend for my stated needs?
    Based on you starting a new site, I would highly recommend using an SSD2000 along with Litespeed. This would give you a one two punch for disk io and page load speed to start with. We can then make further optimizations and move you into MariaDB once you have established your account with us. This plan should be perfect for you because we can also scale your resources for the pure SSD VPS on-the-fly per request without downtime.

    Thanks again and if you have any other questions, just let me know.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WiredTree James View Post
    Litespeed would run $12 per license on VPS environments. At over 2GB of RAM, your server would require a "VPS Ultra" Litespeed license which runs $20 a month.


    While there are specific combinations and settings that work well for Magento and we are aware of those, we like to also approach optimization of your services by observing exactly how resources are being used. We then tune services individually. As an example, we are not afraid to dig into MySQL configuration optimization, work with Litespeed caching or install services like Memcached. How well your Magento installation runs requires complete awareness from software platform to server platform.


    Custom nameservers are fine. You can use custom, remote and even WiredTree namesevers.


    If I understand correctly, we are known for not overselling. We concentrate purely on performance and because of this, we don't have a strict number of VPS clients per node.


    You would have equal share CPU on our VPS nodes. CPU priority as a feature is also set depending on your pure SSD plan type. Keep in mind though that the CPU priority does not matter unless there is contention on the VPS node. To me, this means that when we are doing our jobs well, CPU priority should never need to matter to you. In regards to real world performance on the differing VPS packages, it's going to come down to available resources such as RAM and how they allow you to host more concurrent users or better take advantage of caching.


    This is a difficult question to answer because there are many open ends here. Performance is absolutely important but equally important is service. Is the specialized host available within seconds by phone? Do they own their own datacenter space? The price point also plays a roll. I wish I could give you an easy answer here but I can't. What I can tell you is that is that I deal with and talk to our in-house staff every single day of the week and that I have never worked with a group of people so skilled and so caring. This is proven with word of mouth and the support you have seen in this thread.


    Currently no, we sign a privacy agreement with all of ours clients and we are obligated under law not to give their information to outside parties.


    Based on you starting a new site, I would highly recommend using an SSD2000 along with Litespeed. This would give you a one two punch for disk io and page load speed to start with. We can then make further optimizations and move you into MariaDB once you have established your account with us. This plan should be perfect for you because we can also scale your resources for the pure SSD VPS on-the-fly per request without downtime.

    Thanks again and if you have any other questions, just let me know.
    Thank you for the answers so far

    Can you indicate where the DC is n its connectivity?
    What did you mean by move into maria dB? Would we not just start with it anyway?
    With ssd2000 could we get under 1sec load n higher than 36 transactions/s?
    Is cloudflare supported ? Any other CDN offerings built in?
    Is there a trial account or money back guarantee? Also what if a service is cancelled any pro rata refund?

    Thanks again

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    Thank you for the answers so far

    Can you indicate where the DC is n its connectivity?
    What did you mean by move into maria dB? Would we not just start with it anyway?
    With ssd2000 could we get under 1sec load n higher than 36 transactions/s?
    Is cloudflare supported ? Any other CDN offerings built in?
    Is there a trial account or money back guarantee? Also what if a service is cancelled any pro rata refund?

    Thanks again
    You are very welcome. I see that you have a Sales ticket open with us now. I would be happy to provide answers to these additional questions and any others you can think of within that Sales ticket.

  19. #19
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    James I know that you offer litespeed but what about openlitespeed? It's free n very close in performance.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangelion View Post
    James I know that you offer litespeed but what about openlitespeed? It's free n very close in performance.
    Thank you for your question here. I also see that you provided this question as a Sales ticket. I went ahead and answered that Sales ticket for you earlier today. The major difference between Litespeed and OpenLitespeed would be that OpenLitespeed does not provide compatibility with .htaccess and httpd.conf as the full version of Litespeed would. As such, this would cause compatibility issues within cPanel similar to a straight install of Nginx within cPanel.

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