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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    I'm from the print news industry. Beat that.

    In 1995, it was at the peak of it's game. Even 5 years later, in 2000, it was about convergence (other tech bolstering print, not killing it). Then 5, 10 years later ... ugh. I don't think any industry can beat that roller coaster, aside from pay phones. I rode it all the way until 2011, then just infrequent freelancing on the side, before leaving it behind.
    I know the feeling. The sad reality of becoming a dinosaur within an industry and watching how others helped destroy it by not helping the community...only focused on self. It's even more amusing talking to a fellow artist 20 years later and seeing the confusion on their face as to what went wrong.....violently biting my tounge out of respecting an elder to not say they helped in the downfall of the industry. Not even going to add how another member within that industry has been scamming millions and it's now coming out in the media.

    Many times I miss that industry, but I don't miss the BS within it...and I'm frustrated when I see the BS within this industry. As I said, it's sad that every industry is going through it, but it's worse when I see comments within the hosting industry that's helping to destroy it and some don't see or understand how they're contributing.



    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    Why would you open a thread asking for something that is easy to find? The $50 server request threads exist precisely because people are not typically offering viable services at that price.

    I see it more as being extremely lazy. WHT, blogs, and Google have a wealth of information. People will post a question that's been answered 80 times in 2013....answered 200 times in 2012....answered 45 times in 2011.........are these people not capable of reading. Why are we doing THEIR homework for them.

    It's the laziness that kills me. This will tie in to my next point......

    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    WHT operates under a different set of guidelines/rules. Not the rules of law or business, but her own rules of integrity.

    That integrity is determined by the people who visit, use, post, comment, and just read without ever even creating a membership and logging on - and not by any set of laws set down by some state or statute.
    Integrity?!?!?!?!?!?!!!?

    Where's the integrity when a host is allowed to scam people, and in some cases people will find ways to justify the scam. This is no different than a community of working individuals and a drug dealer within that community. The drug dealer is polite and keeps his/her house and surroundings clean...so it's ok. If something should go wrong...well his house looks clean and the lawn is always cut, so we never expected something to go wrong.

    Integrity.....

    - posts of people asking what to name their company.

    Really??!?!? I don't understand how someone could "open" a hosting company or any company and can't even sit down and think of a name for it. Are they that brain dead to not name their OWN company?!?!?

    If a host can't even name their own company, why are they allowed to handle finances.

    I know many here will rant that the person should have looked up reviews on them, but when were talking about regular customers, they have no idea.

    I guess it falls in the same mindset of encouraging them to fail and getting their scraps. The only problem....many of those scraps are going to be jaded. Some will then become a host to avoid a bad situation again. Helping people that clearly should not have been a host or company is what helps in the downfall. If someone asks to name their company, then asks what is billing, then asks what's a server and how many can I fit on a server.....bang....magically days later they're a host in the offers section...and we know they have NO experience AT ALL.

    It's as bad as one of the hosts on here. They have no clue how to interact with people. There early posts are a joke...and then the rest are constant complaints from customers. There's no integrity to allow this to keep happening. I'm not perfect and have my own flaws, but I don't have people coming back here every month with complaints after complaints....and then blaming the customer when it's not their fault at all.

    Integrity?!?!?!?! WHT is or was looked upon as the "go to" for hosting information. According to Google...

    Welcome to Web Hosting Talk. WHT is the largest, most influential web and cloud hosting community on the Internet.
    If I were in charge of a resource that influences people, I would make sure it was positive and the members have some form of validity to be a part of the community. I guess it's just me.
    Last edited by WPCYCLE; 01-22-2014 at 08:26 AM.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue View Post
    It'd be kind to share that reason.
    I feel that as a whole, the quality of posts here has decreased significantly. I reply to the threads that I feel actually are useful.

    There's not much here worth replying to..

    With that being said, definitely is cyclical..
    AS395558

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
    I feel that as a whole, the quality of posts here has decreased significantly. I reply to the threads that I feel actually are useful.
    To be fair, the latter half of your statement is the reason for the former. Quality degredation occurs when people like us stop voluntarily contributing, and wait for "useful/interesting" topics to reply to.

  4. #104
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    I like the idea of having a Corporate Advertising sub section this way when you are looking for servers you can know you are atleast looking at a legit business not a 12 yrs old scam site.
    Remember when ordering a server from a new company use a Credit Card. Paypal will not refund your money if you get scammed.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRR1963 View Post
    Then after a few months:

    "Can you limit Corporate Accounts to just good hosts?"

    "Can you ban Corporate Accounts with bad reviews?"


    You do know that anybody can pay the Corporate fee right? Kiddie host, Fly by night, Fraud Host, and on and on...

    WHT is a business $$$$$$$$$.

    --

    Also are you saying that companies that do not wish to buy ads here are bad? What kind of logic is that ^ ^ ?
    agree with this
    corporate member not mean they are good host
    the fee to upgrade to corporate member isnt that big

  6. #106
    The trend isn't going to turn around. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em, or just don't complain.

    Consumers are the one that control the market. Not us.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenValueHost View Post
    Consumers are the one that control the market. Not us.
    You do realize it's actually the opposite.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aldryic C'boas View Post
    Quality degredation occurs when people like us stop voluntarily contributing, and wait for "useful/interesting" topics to reply to.

    I don't blame anyone for thinking this. Why would anyone with years of experience want to contribute to a thread of people asking what to name their company or a lack of human communication. They're not trying to bring down their intelligence or credibility. Move like a ninja....stay quiet and only react when necessary.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Williams View Post
    I'd personally like to see the offers forum killed altogether. Figure out how to market yourselves properly.
    amen
    amen
    amen
    --

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by 48-14 View Post
    You do realize it's actually the opposite.
    He's the kid that's offering selling VMs with 100TB of transit on a 1Gbit line at 5$, with a straight face at that. A prime example of how not to adapt and evolve to a changing market.

    Quote Originally Posted by 48-14 View Post
    I don't blame anyone for thinking this. Why would anyone with years of experience want to contribute to a thread of people asking what to name their company or a lack of human communication. They're not trying to bring down their intelligence or credibility. Move like a ninja....stay quiet and only react when necessary.
    Aye, agreed, which is why I said "us", as I am just as guilty as this. That's actually one of the reasons I don't participate much here (the other and primary being the sheer volume of new posts - trying to keep up with it all and still make input relevant would be a second job), and tend to stick to smaller communities. I like being able to scan through a thread, and either know most of the pariticipants on a first name basis, or at least be able to recall the last conversation I had with them.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Williams View Post
    I'd personally like to see the offers forum killed altogether. Figure out how to market yourselves properly.
    Yes, the offers forum is nothing but garbage.
    I choose not to use my signature for advertising.

    It doesn't matter how much you claim how important your data is. If it's not backed up, it's not important.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by 48-14 View Post
    You do realize it's actually the opposite.
    It might seem like the opposite, but in a truly free market with low barriers to entry (which shared/VPS hosting pretty much is), consumer's demand and willingness to pay really determines the market.

    Short of price fixing, which is illegal, other providers will naturally respond with lower prices while still remaining profitable. Economics 101.
    (This is simplified, but ignoring a few exceptions, accurately models the current hosting market.)
    Last edited by tsj5j; 01-22-2014 at 11:53 AM.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldryic C'boas View Post
    He's the kid that's offering selling VMs with 100TB of transit on a 1Gbit line at 5$, with a straight face at that. A prime example of how not to adapt and evolve to a changing market.
    Well, I hope personal attacks make you feel better about yourself, or helps your interests... somehow.

    "If you can't beat them, join them..."
    If you bothered to think about it, you'd realize this essentially means you have three options:
    1.) Innovate in some form. (and hence beat them)
    2.) Compete with the newcomers by lowering prices or offering better quality services.
    3.) Keep your high prices without offering anything new, and hope for the best.

    Many providers are sticking with #2/#3, offering barely better support (often worse) and complaining about eroding customer bases, or lowering prices and complaining about eroding margins.

    The only way out is to innovate, which is common sense really.
    If you are offering the exact same thing other people who value their time less can offer for less, you're not going to turn out ahead...

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    Well, I hope personal attacks make you feel better about yourself, or helps your interests... somehow.
    Fairly irrelevant. But to clarify - a difference of opinion is not a personal attack. He feels the plans he offers makes him "one of the best" (his words); I disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    "If you can't beat them, join them..."
    If you bothered to think about it, you'd realize this essentially means you have three options:
    1.) Innovate in some form. (and hence beat them)
    2.) Compete with the newcomers by lowering prices or offering better quality services.
    3.) Keep your high prices without offering anything new, and hope for the best.

    Many providers are sticking with #2/#3, offering barely better support (often worse) and complaining about eroding customer bases, or lowering prices and complaining about eroding margins.
    "If you bothered to think about it", to use your words, you would realize that the "personal attack" of insinuating I didn't come to such a conclusion on my own was completely unnecessary, and undermined your first statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    The only way out is to innovate, which is common sense really.
    If you are offering the exact same thing other people who value their time less can offer for less, you're not going to turn out ahead...
    I don't plug my company signature outside of posts pertaining to us, so I'll forgive your assumption that I'm simply naive to innovation. But to clue you in, our company decided that improving quality by offering new features to our clients, often without any cost to them, is a preferable solution to the "Let's hope enough of this crap sells to pay our overhead" ideal.

  14. #114
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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    Well, I hope personal attacks make you feel better about yourself, or helps your interests... somehow.
    You have no idea. A little reading and you will see where the roads leads.


    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    "If you can't beat them, join them..."
    This is not always the best approach. If I were to use this rule in my previous music career...go from working with talented artists/musicians to working with people dependent on the computer to make them sound good. Go from people who wrote thoughtful and meaningful lyrics to absolute garbage....incorrect grammar...nonsense.


    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    1.) Innovate in some form. (and hence beat them)
    Regarding the host....innovate.....nope.


    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    2.) Compete with the newcomers by lowering prices or offering better quality services.
    Prices...maybe. Better quality......not even close.


    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    3.) Keep your high prices without offering anything new, and hope for the best.
    If one were offering known quality services, people will pay for it. They will pay for the reliability associated with that price.


    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    Many providers are sticking with #2/#3, offering barely better support (often worse) and complaining about eroding customer bases, or lowering prices and complaining about eroding margins.
    ....and this is how the host in question operates.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldryic C'boas View Post
    Fairly irrelevant. But to clarify - a difference of opinion is not a personal attack. He feels the plans he offers makes him "one of the best" (his words); I disagree.
    Personal attacks don't help the situation, unfortunately. Name calling (kid) is just insulting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldryic C'boas View Post
    "If you bothered to think about it", to use your words, you would realize that the "personal attack" of insinuating I didn't come to such a conclusion on my own was completely unnecessary, and undermined your first statement.
    It's not a personal attack, but rather a logical conclusion I came to. If you were resorting to personal attacks and not directly addressing his point, then you clearly didn't bother to process and respond to his opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldryic C'boas View Post
    I don't plug my company signature outside of posts pertaining to us, so I'll forgive your assumption that I'm simply naive to innovation. But to clue you in, our company decided that improving quality by offering new features to our clients, often without any cost to them, is a preferable solution to the "Let's hope enough of this crap sells to pay our overhead" ideal.
    Kudos to you. All the other arguments aside (where I think personal attacks are extremely unprofessional), I believe this is the right road ahead for the industry, not a thousand cookie cutter hosts.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldryic C'boas View Post
    He feels the plans he offers makes him "one of the best" (his words); I disagree.
    Glad I'm not the only one following this soap opera.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by 48-14 View Post
    This is not always the best approach. If I were to use this rule in my previous music career...go from working with talented artists/musicians to working with people dependent on the computer to make them sound good. Go from people who wrote thoughtful and meaningful lyrics to absolute garbage....incorrect grammar...nonsense.
    I think you don't understand.
    "If you can't beat them, join them." is a statement used when there is something to beat.

    It depends on what you're searching for:
    1.) If you want to feel proud of your work, go ahead and stick to your moral, ethical and professional guidance.
    2.) If you realize garbage sells, and you have no chance of converting that audience, then clearly the best market-based approach is to make something that sells - even if it's garbage.

    P.S. IMHO, Garbage sells partially because of a broken education system and a culture which celebrates having fun and being irresponsible. I don't think it's the music industry's responsibility to fix this problem - they are merely making stuff that their target audience will buy.

    Quote Originally Posted by 48-14 View Post
    Regarding the host....innovate.....nope.
    Prices...maybe. Better quality......not even close.
    Notice I said price OR quality. Simply picking one to excel in is sufficient. Both will be nice, of course, but not always feasible. As long as quality is reasonable or the same for a lower price, consumers will jump for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 48-14 View Post
    If one were offering known quality services, people will pay for it. They will pay for the reliability associated with that price.
    Yes! I did mention that! But most providers overestimate their quality. I don't really see most of the quality providers "complaining" - in fact they are thriving - e.g. SoftLayer, etc. Having a proven track record of reliability, service and excellence works.

    BUT most of the hosts moaning "people don't want quality anymore!" aren't those hosts. They've been around for a couple years, offer slightly above average quality for greatly inflated prices. And then they wonder why are people not buying - it's called free market forces.
    (BTW, generalizing a bit, but mostly true. If a truly high quality host is experiencing such sales issues, there are other factors such as poor marketing.)

    Most hosts overestimate their "quality of services" and the amount consumers are willing to pay for said quality, frankly.

    Quote Originally Posted by 48-14 View Post
    ....and this is how the host in question operates.
    I'm contributing to the larger discussion at hand, especially the host's idea of "if you can't beat them, join them" for the industry moving forward. I'm not really keen on discussing them specifically to his host. Since neither you nor I have used his services, I think it's highly inappropriate to pass judgement.
    Last edited by tsj5j; 01-22-2014 at 12:31 PM.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by CloudVZ View Post
    Could just have an advertising section(s) where only corporate accounts can post in. That right there would most likely separate a lot of good/bad hosts.

    That would make corporate accounts worth it. Right now you have the privilege of posting every THREE days in a cesspool.
    I actually like your idea about requiring a corporate membership in order to be able to post in the offers section. That would generate more revenue for WHT and it would get rid of some of the kiddie hosts that post there.

    I am against the idea of expecting WHT staff to somehow enforce a rule about being a real business, since that would place undue burden on the WHT staff without increasing revenues for the WHT site.
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    Personal attacks don't help the situation, unfortunately. Name calling (kid) is just insulting.
    He's underage. Call a spade a spade - he's a minor. Subjectively against my age, he's a kid. That's not an insult, it's simply truth. Do you get upset when someone calls you 'dude' (assuming you're male)?

    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    It's not a personal attack, but rather a logical conclusion I came to. If you were resorting to personal attacks and not directly addressing his point, then you clearly didn't bother to process and respond to his opinion.
    Perhaps you should do some more research on the guy before you jump to the defense. I've quite directly addressed his point (both other places, and here with my quality vs quantity statement). Clearly you didn't bother to understand the situation before making your own "personal attacks".

    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    Kudos to you. All the other arguments aside (where I think personal attacks are extremely unprofessional), I believe this is the right road ahead for the industry, not a thousand cookie cutter hosts.
    Cool story. If you think "personal attacks" are unprofessional, then perhaps you should cease your own? That's multiple times now you decided to jump to conclusions over someone expressing their opinion - perhaps take a bit more time to be aware of the situation instead of diving in head first.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by NoSupportLinuxHostin View Post
    I actually like your idea about requiring a corporate membership in order to be able to post in the offers section. That would generate more revenue for WHT and it would get rid of some of the kiddie hosts that post there.

    I am against the idea of expecting WHT staff to somehow enforce a rule about being a real business, since that would place undue burden on the WHT staff without increasing revenues for the WHT site.
    More revenue is fine, if WHT needs it. But "getting rid of kiddie hosts" is not a solution. To start, defining a kiddie host is highly subjective. I can name a handful of very young brands that do a damn good job, and offer quality service. Maybe they can't yet afford the expense of a corporate membership.. but being restricted to one post per 7 days instead of 3 is still sufficient for them to get their name out there.

    In the end, you can't "remove the problem". For the sake of arguement, let's say there's a common definition for kiddie hosts, and all of them were shut down overnight. The remainder of the hosts still operating would then be competing solely with each other, and the situation would just repeat itself. Not to mention that there's already plenty of "established providers" who are part of the stagnation.

    I'm sure I haven't made enough folks angry yet, so let's go with a fun comparison. Hitler's solution to a problem was to remove the problem. Ghandi's solution was to improve himself above the problem, and encourage others to do the same. Sure, that's pretty damn extremist.. but it's still on track. Improve yourself above the rabble, show clients that you can offer more and better. Smarter companies will notice the success, mimic your actions... and suddenly the market's changed again, hopefully for the better.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldryic C'boas View Post
    He's underage. Call a spade a spade - he's a minor. Subjectively against my age, he's a kid. That's not an insult, it's simply truth. Do you get upset when someone calls you 'dude' (assuming you're male)?
    I'd like to cease this argument. If you're not aware that calling someone a kid in a professional environment is derogatory, I can only assume you have limited exposure to English.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldryic C'boas View Post
    Perhaps you should do some more research on the guy before you jump to the defense. I've quite directly addressed his point (both other places, and here with my quality vs quantity statement). Clearly you didn't bother to understand the situation before making your own "personal attacks".
    I'm not trying to address a situation. This is a lesson in objectivity; for example, just because Hilter has an opinion does not automatically make the opinion "bad". Evaluate the opinion on its' own merits, which is what I'm attempting to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldryic C'boas View Post
    Cool story. If you think "personal attacks" are unprofessional, then perhaps you should cease your own? That's multiple times now you decided to jump to conclusions over someone expressing their opinion - perhaps take a bit more time to be aware of the situation instead of diving in head first.
    Jumping to conclusions (which I don't think I am, btw, since I'm addressing this particular set of opinions instead of him as a person or "situation" as you call it) isn't a personal attack. You might want to refer to commonly accepted definitions of personal attacks, such as on Wikipedia.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aldryic C'boas View Post
    Improve yourself above the rabble, show clients that you can offer more and better. Smarter companies will notice the success, mimic your actions... and suddenly the market's changed again, hopefully for the better.


    Wake up everyday with this in mind. Every "host" should hang these words near their bed so they see it when they wake up.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZKuJoe View Post
    Just a thought: What if WHT split the Offers section into 2 parts, Managed and Unmanaged (read: budget). I know the terms are subjective but maybe setting the requirements for a managed service as "24x7 Phone Support" or something of that nature?
    I think something like this would be a good idea, however it's implementation would be near impossible.

    For example, you say "24x7 Phone Support" could define a "managed" host. Now I realize that's just something you threw out there, but I believe we are a well-respected fully managed host and we don't offer phone support, so where would we fall?

    This is just an example, but every aspect that WHT could consider as a definition of "managed" for example could be argued.
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  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnownHost-Jonathan View Post
    I think something like this would be a good idea, however it's implementation would be near impossible.

    For example, you say "24x7 Phone Support" could define a "managed" host. Now I realize that's just something you threw out there, but I believe we are a well-respected fully managed host and we don't offer phone support, so where would we fall?

    This is just an example, but every aspect that WHT could consider as a definition of "managed" for example could be argued.
    Indeed, but if such division is to be implemented (and I'm all for it!), some lines must be drawn. The implementation can be worked out: managed can mean provider must provide software updates, setup, or a list of other items.

    These problems occur out of lack of standardization of advertising terms. WHT is in the position to define some of them to reduce confusion for everyone involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    I'd like to cease this argument.
    And yet, you kept going.

    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    If you're not aware that calling someone a kid in a professional environment is derogatory, I can only assume you have limited exposure to English.
    It is my third language, correct. But there you go making assumptions again... If you'd like to know something about me, simply ask me directly. Don't dance around the issue with assumptions and implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    I'm not trying to address a situation. This is a lesson in objectivity; for example, just because Hilter has an opinion does not automatically make the opinion "bad". Evaluate the opinion on its' own merits, which is what I'm attempting to do.
    If you're not aware that mass genocide is "bad", I can only assume you have limited exposure to world history.

    Well, dammit, looks like that backfired on you a bit. Since you're trying to attack me for stating my opinion.. what happened to "evaluate on its own merits"? (It's is short for 'it is' btw, not possessive. Perhaps correct your own grammatical fallicies before you comment on others' grasp of English?).

    Quote Originally Posted by tsj5j View Post
    Jumping to conclusions (which I don't think I am, btw, since I'm addressing this particular set of opinions instead of him as a person or "situation" as you call it) isn't a personal attack. You might want to refer to commonly accepted definitions of personal attacks, such as on Wikipedia.
    If the best you have is resorting to Wikipedia rather than being able to explain a concept yourself, then it's (see, not possessive) time to stop derailing the thread with your idiocy (that was an insult) and get back on topic.

    But I'm sure you're going to want the last word, so go for it. Get it out of your system now so we can move on.

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