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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by NetDepot - Terrence View Post
    I really don't think that's the case, every new thread someone is looking for a $50 server and a few threads later they are complaining about poor service.

    Proper services cost money to maintain and that is why they come at a cost. Many of these new folks on here don't really understand the real cost because of all these cheap deals floating around.
    Wash, Rinse, Repeat. We've seen that story for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike_A View Post
    Unlimited offers might be "against the rules" however a few shared hosting providers disregard this "rule" and setup accounts with unlimited disk/bandwidth anyways, and offer it on their website. I won't list any names here, but yeah.
    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    It's currently allowed on WHT.
    I was gonna explain the current situation, but it looks like a big woolly bear beat me to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougy View Post
    There is a reason that my participation here has dwindled significantly...
    It'd be kind to share that reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    Many read, many are smart, many never post.


    Or as Jakob Nielsen said, "In most online communities, 90% of users are lurkers who never contribute, 9% of users contribute a little, and 1% of users account for almost all the action."

    Quote Originally Posted by TekHive View Post
    These "cheap" providers wont be around for long, they will soon be out of pocket because they cant keep up with their prices. I remember seeing not so long ago a provider offering unlimited shared hosting for $1 a month its crazy.

    I don't want to get into the whole unlimited debate but its WHT own fault for allowing such offers to be made, whether or not they thought the forum was getting too quiet so they had to make some changes but it was the wrong decision. Then we all sit here wondering why we are seeing all these fly by web hosting providers offering ridiculous prices.

    The only good thing that has come from this is the good guys are here to pick up the pieces.
    That looks like something I read here 10-12 years ago. (not that there's anything wrong with that) But every few years a thread with a topic of "WHT is dead" comes up.

    The thing I've noticed about the relationship between WHT and the web hosting industry is, WHT is simply a reflection of the industry. I believe that to be WHT's purpose.

    In fact our mission statement sums it up pretty well.

    Mission Statement:

    WebHostingTalk.com is a community-driven resource whose goal is to keep consumers and businesses informed of the continued innovations and evolution of the web hosting industry and to
    • Provide the most comprehensive and accurate information available
    • Evolve this web site to enhance the user experience
    • Keep topical, relevant and visionary
    • Provide its members and guests with an enjoyable environment
    • Define and grow development within the web hosting industry
    • Promote goodwill between providers and end-users
    • Aid users in the understanding of choosing suitable providers for their needs
    • Provide the public with a venue for recourse and accountability
    • Promote business ethics and entrepreneurship in hosting businesses.
    It doesn't say anything about defining the web hosting industry. Our job is to try our best to keep up with the industry and supply this forum as a means to discuss enhancements, revolutions, disappointments, and disasters.
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.

  2. #52
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    I would love to see companies before they can post in the advertising section have to show proof they are a legal company in the country they are in to WHT mods. We have all seen it so many times these kiddies put a website up and sell servers for a couple of months and take off with peoples money.
    Remember when ordering a server from a new company use a Credit Card. Paypal will not refund your money if you get scammed.

  3. #53
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    Alot of hosts, like us, have had to put 'budget packages' in, for cheap and throw alot of extras in, like someone said in the previous posts the market is saturated as it is, and with that there is that much competition you have to lower your prices, simply because the higher ones just wont sell when you have 100's of other hosts, offering pretty much the same deal for $7-10 less, as a customer you are going to take the cheap one, especially when there near the exact same package,location and control panel.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Violent Injection View Post
    I would love to see companies before they can post in the advertising section have to show proof they are a legal company in the country they are in to WHT mods. We have all seen it so many times these kiddies put a website up and sell servers for a couple of months and take off with peoples money.
    You don't need to be a company to trade and you certainly don't need a company registration unless your a company trading as a company. Most people simply don't understand the various trading methods across the world.
    UK Based Proactive Server Management.
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  5. #55
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    WHT will not be the same...just like anything really. It will change when there are changes in the industry...

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Settoz View Post
    What if WHT started to require the company to be registered, and posting the organization number? Then we would get the most people with no intentions to stay, to not advertise here
    Why? You can open a store front business in your local community without a registration number. You can file a tax return without a business number. Why to post on WHT?

    Quote Originally Posted by TekHive View Post
    These "cheap" providers wont be around for long, they will soon be out of pocket because they cant keep up with their prices. I remember seeing not so long ago a provider offering unlimited shared hosting for $1 a month its crazy.
    Yup. Even $0.50 lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Theseeker View Post
    An unrelated industry group forum I am involved in was advised by several attorneys to avoid any discussion of minimum pricing on public forum boards. Some industries had gotten into trouble with federal agencies for "price fixing." charged with violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act of 1890. It was from seemingly innocent comments like " I would not take that work for less than $25 per hour."
    Makes sense
    Quote Originally Posted by Violent Injection View Post
    I would love to see companies before they can post in the advertising section have to show proof they are a legal company in the country they are in to WHT mods. We have all seen it so many times these kiddies put a website up and sell servers for a couple of months and take off with peoples money.
    See first note
    █ █ █

  7. #57
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    I signed up quite a while ago and have seen many trends over that time. In the earlier days I remember things being more team-focused if that makes sense. Technical threads seemed to receive more attention than they do now. I owe much gratitude to WHT and certain members who provided aide as I was learning. For that reason I hope to be here to help as long as time permits me, but it does become disheartening sifting through handfulls of "Bob's Web Hosting scammed me" or "What's the best free control panel" threads which seem to have become more frequent as of late. When I see a lot of those, or new users posing incorrect solutions to long-resolved problems, I tend to read more than I respond. Don't get me wrong, times have to change, but lately I'm feeling as though a change is long overdue.

    I specifically don't advertise on WHT. Not that I never will, but I just ... don't right now, yet I renewed my premium membership and have the perks of doing so - but I'd rather entice a possible client with demonstrated knowledge rather than a $0.50 price tag. Though this may not be the fast track to getting "noticed" by possible new clients, the long-term benefits of, as someone mentioned, helping a client configure a Node.JS, Python, Django, instance, will eventually be shone as times noticably (eventually) change.

    Until then I do truly wish everyone the best.

    JE
    Last edited by Johnny Cache; 01-21-2014 at 02:35 PM.

  8. #58
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    Pandering to the lowest common denominator to make some quick cash by the fly by night turnkey host.
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    some day I will put something here
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  9. #59
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    Everyone that keeps saying the hosting industry is super saturated is only half right. It's saturated if your intended market is other people who host. Convincing people like me to use your services is why you're still here on WHT. I'm always looking for the best-bang-for-the-buck and I buy more and more all the time based on what I find or do not find here.

    Those of you all worried about the super low prices understand how unreliable those services are and would unlikely purchase from anyone like that mainly because you understand that they can't continue like that. Those that do purchase from those folks will likely still need hosting and are willing to pay more for the lesson learned. Those that don't want to pay more are doomed to lose service again and again until they figure it out. The only thing you really have to worry about is if these low cost providers actually pull it off and manage to stick around somehow. How likely is that? Why fear it?

    But if you haven't noticed, there is still something around 40% to 60% of companies that still do not have web sites. They do not come on to WHT because they will likely use services provided by their local sign shop or business card provider or by some other means. They get bombarded as business owners or administrators by people wanting to sell them hosting and/or web design. They don't even know about WHT really. As a shared hosting provider, you must chase these consumers where it is appropriate.

    In the end, proving that you're an actual legitimate business before being allowed to post in the advertising forums is still a great idea. That would at least eliminate a lot of WHT-enabled-fraud and restore the respectability of offers to the rest of us.

    I would be more likely to spend money here on WHT advertising if I didn't feel like I was competing, and being compared to, the very people I do not want to be associated with.

  10. #60
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    I don't think you can blame Web Hosting Talk for trends in the hosting industry. At the end of the day, someone else had to setup the site and services and offer them for unlimited or $1/year. Web Hosting Talk is just a channel for supply and demand where a buyer can virtually meet and find a seller. The buyers needed cheaper more robust plans and packages and at the end of the day businesses cut margins to make a sale which led to an overall change in pricing.

    If WHT doesn't allow for it, someone else will and will cut into their share of dominance as a hosting community. It needs to remain a community of users that provide the latest trends, services, and prices to a global economy of buyers.
    Doug
    Finance, Operations, and Business Executive

  11. #61
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    Reminds me of a thread way back in 2003

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    Are you suggesting we start setting pricing minimums for providers?

    The market has become flooded, and with that the price wars began. We're not here to prevent cheap offers, and it's not what I'd consider our place to say who can advertise what here as long as it's legal and they can provide what they sell.

    As a provider of non budget offerings, it's up to you to convince buyers that basing a decision on price alone is not the best option, and show why your product is better for them, no?
    Agreed - Plus many aspects have changed and the pricing for the equivalent upstream network and hardware have dropped rapidly, so those who get the best deals can set the low end of the bar, while those who don't can only watch as they lose out to the cheaper option!

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon-e-mouse View Post
    Reminds me of a thread way back in 2003
    Well, to be fair, in 2003 WHT did discontinue the Cobalt RaQ forum. That alone probably caused a lot of hatred.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon-e-mouse View Post
    Reminds me of a thread way back in 2003
    Yep.

    I remember seeing one of these in 2007 or so. And again around 2009, and again in the 2010s. Sometimes people just like to gripe/whine because they're not getting sales as they want. So the whole world is ending to them.
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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    I would be more likely to spend money here on WHT advertising if I didn't feel like I was competing, and being compared to, the very people I do not want to be associated with.
    Are you really prepared to sell yourself so short?

    I often compare the hosting industry to the motor trade....

    Moscovitch/Lada - Our cars have 4 wheels, an engine, seats (just like the rest).... and a heated rear screen to keep your hands warm while you push them to the garage.

    Ford, Vauxhall, Audi, VW, Nissan, Toyota, etc. - Broadly speaking the middle-range, and spending fortunes on volume advertising trying to "out-feature" their competitors with some extra little wizzy gimic.

    BMW, Mercedes, Range Rover, Jaguar, etc. - Not so many TV ads, but when they do they buy prime-time slots, their sales people all wear suits not sweatshirts, their "production" is obviously superior, and they sell on quality (not price).

    Look at how many people revolted against Moscovitch and now drive Nissan, how many revolted against Toyota's multi-million product recalls and now drive BMWs, and how many were always sufficiently "savvy" to always buy Range Rover.

    Are you really saying that you don't know how to advertise your superior product?

  16. #66
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    Nobody can dream about server prices from year 2006/2007/2008. The nowadays hosting is more cruel than before Get used to it.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon-e-mouse View Post
    Reminds me of a thread way back in 2003
    Lol..is it only Canadians noticing these things?
    Respectfully,
    Mr. Terrence

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by anon-e-mouse View Post
    Reminds me of a thread way back in 2003
    Ha! Look at the post counts of those members. Thousands per person back then.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by F-DNS View Post
    Are you really prepared to sell yourself so short?

    I often compare the hosting industry to the motor trade....

    Are you really saying that you don't know how to advertise your superior product?

    What I'm saying is that I'll choose to go after my market where my market is. Advertising my superior product here gets mixed in with the folks selling death traps and salvaged titled with no "Car Facts" to reference. Wasting my money competing for market share along side obvious fraudsters isn't part of my strategy. Perhaps one day when I've pursued more avenues with less success I'll consider it.

    BMW , Mercedes, Range Rover, Jaguar etc. don't advertise on the same medium a "buy here / pay here" lot does. Focusing on quality doesn't mean mix yourself in with the others for the sake of it. It means asking for that review or referral to advertise superiority.

    There aren't as many makes of vehicles as there are web hosts. We all know them all and their reputations. Getting a quality review from folks that never had hosting elsewhere isn't an easy task either. What other experience do they have to compare me with? I've relied heavily on personal referrals up until now and have been more successful acquiring new business that way than I have been by any other means of advertising.

    I guess to answer your question.. Yes I don't know how to advertise my superior product on WHT. Mainly because I'm a small provider and unknown to most. That being said, I'm forced to compete and be compared with the 'death-trap' dealers on this medium. Dishing out large sums of money and hoping to recoup it over time is not interesting to me.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by NetDepot - Terrence View Post
    Is it just me or has WHT turned into the budget hosting forum? What happen to the old days? where did all the real business customers go? any way to turn this trend around?
    Supply and demand my friend. It's really simple as that. These days it's a lot easier to become a web hosting provider, so naturally everybody's doing it looking for that quick buck and easy money. I believe there's a buyer for every product, so I don't worry. I actually support all these budget providers because they redirect abusers away from the rest of us and that works out great for everyone. When people get burnt, they're very grateful to be able to depend on someone after their bad experience and that makes way for great relationships in the future.
    yo what's up

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    What I'm saying is that I'll choose to go after my market where my market is. Advertising my superior product here gets mixed in with the folks selling death traps and salvaged titled with no "Car Facts" to reference. Wasting my money competing for market share along side obvious fraudsters isn't part of my strategy. Perhaps one day when I've pursued more avenues with less success I'll consider it.

    BMW , Mercedes, Range Rover, Jaguar etc. don't advertise on the same medium a "buy here / pay here" lot does. Focusing on quality doesn't mean mix yourself in with the others for the sake of it. It means asking for that review or referral to advertise superiority.

    There aren't as many makes of vehicles as there are web hosts. We all know them all and their reputations. Getting a quality review from folks that never had hosting elsewhere isn't an easy task either. What other experience do they have to compare me with? I've relied heavily on personal referrals up until now and have been more successful acquiring new business that way than I have been by any other means of advertising.

    I guess to answer your question.. Yes I don't know how to advertise my superior product on WHT. Mainly because I'm a small provider and unknown to most. That being said, I'm forced to compete and be compared with the 'death-trap' dealers on this medium. Dishing out large sums of money and hoping to recoup it over time is not interesting to me.
    All you need to do is this:

    - Stay focused on giving a great service.
    - Advertise here with a nice looking Advert, look at the competitors.
    - Don't give up.

    Because your focused on good customer service, you will get happy customers, some happy customers will review you. They can tell their friends.

    Most of my customers are from WHT, but none post reviews on WHT, only two have posted reviews here, one per brand. One review was bad, but he's still with us, and happy as can be.

    At the end of the day, good or bad, your aim is providing good service and if your doing it right, the business will roll in, reviews will roll out.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    What I'm saying is that I'll choose to go after my market where my market is.
    So you're confident that there is no-one reading WHT that fits your customer profile? Dang, I wish I had your crystal balls. Accepting that you're not after the mainstream (high-volume) market, you're still not prepared to run a FREE ad on WHT once a week, just in case one of your potential premium customers strayed into the "wrong place"?

    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    Advertising my superior product here gets mixed in with the folks selling death traps and salvaged titled with no "Car Facts" to reference.
    Advertisments for oil-based spreads and low-fat "like butter" spreads (with or without Omega-3) all co-exist on the same TV channels. They have the expertise and budget to decide to be on those or not. And they are. So is prime Irish low-salt butter. Why's that?

    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    Wasting my money competing for market share along side obvious fraudsters isn't part of my strategy.
    Who said there was a cost involved?

    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    BMW , Mercedes, Range Rover, Jaguar etc. don't advertise on the same medium a "buy here / pay here" lot does.
    Yes they do, at least in the UK. We call it TV, radio and magazines.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    There aren't as many makes of vehicles as there are web hosts.
    But there are as many second-hand car dealers selling any make you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    We all know them all and their reputations.
    And if they're on a back street, as opposed to the other dealers on the main highway into town, we'll never even know they existed, let alone go take a walk through their lot to see if they've got a nice deal on a 2011 Jag.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    I've relied heavily on personal referrals up until now and have been more successful acquiring new business that way than I have been by any other means of advertising.
    There's no denying that that's a fantastic way to get business. With referrals you're gaining customers who are already half-sold on the service you provide and, as long as you live up to that referral, you're pretty much partners with that customer for life.

    And then that 2011 Jag breaks down, you can't get the parts, it's weekend and the temp service guy mucks up, and your referred customer sees an identical 2012 Jag for a decent price on someone else's lot 2 minutes walk down the road from you.....

    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    Yes I don't know how to advertise my superior product on WHT. Mainly because I'm a small provider and unknown to most. That being said, I'm forced to compete and be compared with the 'death-trap' dealers on this medium.
    But you already are doing, right now! We're all waiting with baited breath for you to post an ad now!

    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    Dishing out large sums of money and hoping to recoup it over time is not interesting to me.
    It costs nothing but your time and mental agility to compose, format and post the ad.

  23. #73
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    All good points and I can totally agree with you. Unless you're arguing against the idea that a company should be first verified that it is indeed a company before posting ads. Then I'd have to respectfully disagree.

  24. #74
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    Talking

    I see a lot of comparison between apples and oranges

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8inghost View Post
    Unless you're arguing against the idea that a company should be first verified that it is indeed a company before posting ads.
    Another excellent point, I like where this is going.
    Respectfully,
    Mr. Terrence

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