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  1. #1
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    Angry Singlehop says goodbye - 2+ year review

    I have been a client of Singlehop for 2 years now. Today I received an email from sales saying that they are dropping me as a client due to recent attacks on my server.

    Due to multiple attacks targeting your server, which have also affect other clients, we are unable to continue to provide hosting service to you. We will be refunding your most recent payment, and we will also be allowing one week to migrate your data. Please note that within this one week time frame, if there are any more DDOS attacks we will have to null route your IPs for 24 hours minimum. You will see the funds back in your account within 3-5 business days from the date the account is closed.
    Firstly, one week? I have been a customer for 2+ years always paid my bill on time and you're giving me one week to move all of my data and find another provider? How generous of you.

    I've had a couple of small attacks to my server over the past week but it is nothing like we have seen before, these are only small attacks compared to our previous attacks.

    Two years almost to the day we received a DDoS attack that gave us almost 2.5TB incoming traffic within a couple of hours, and this was when we were a new customer, but they didn't drop me then, so why now for?

    This is December 1st to the 31st bandwidth graph.
    You'll notice that the major spike it goes from the previous day (29th) 26GB incoming traffic and then the next day (30th) it goes to 77GB incoming traffic.

    This months bandwidth graph is the same. 7 days ago there was 112GB of incoming traffic instead of the usual 25-30GB, and this puts their whole system into a panic? For a datacenter to advertise incoming unmetered bandwidth you'd think they'd be able to handle an additional spike of 70GB every now and then from some kid who purchased a booter off of hack forums wouldn't you?

    This server has a 1Gbps port on it, is it not meant to be able to handle traffic like this? This server doesn't even need a 1Gbps port on it, it has 10TB bandwidth outgoing which we use 25% of monthly, I'm sure customers of theirs that have much more traffic than us chew through a lot bandwidth than 25-30GB incoming a day, or even when the server gets DDoSed 100GB a day?


    On to the positive side of the review, if you are running a website or hosting a game server that doesn't attract kids to DDoS you with 30GB of traffic then Singlehop is a great choice. Their support is generally on the ball with quick responses and their phone support is good as well.

    You get what you pay for with the 100% up time SLA, the server went down twice over a two year period, once because one of their switches failed during maintenance and I can't remember the other one, but I was reimbursed for both occasions. I have had the server upgraded a few times as well and they are good with fitting in a time frame that suits you.

    The Leap 3 and Leap panels are still a little bit buggy, they were just rolling out Leap 3 when I signed up and they have ironed out some of the bugs in it even though it is still pretty buggy in some sections.

    At the times where we got a small DDoS attack and got the IP's of the servers doing it, submitting a ticket asking them to temporarily block the IPs was handled within a somewhat timely manner.


    One issue I did find with what I thought to be their network is at some points certain countries would get up to 50% packet loss, sometimes this would go on for weeks just for certain countries or IP ranges, weeks of messing around with tracerts and pings it was found to be due to the fact that our game server and Teamspeak server was running UDP and it was causing their DDoS filter to block some traffic (just a heads up for people looking to do this), even running them on separate IP's.

    You would think after 2+ years that a provider would stand by their customer a little more and help offer solutions instead of saying you have a week to pack your things and be out of my house.

  2. #2
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    I am sorry to hear that they are dropping a trusted customer after 2 years time for a DDOS attack.
    Isn't there anything they are willing to do to keep you?
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  3. #3
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    Oct 2005
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    It's a shame that after two years they wish to terminate your business relationship. SingleHop has a presence here on WHT (@danushman) and perhaps he may be able to discuss this with you further to reach a resolution. One solution that might work for you is to place CloudFlare in front of your services to negate any attacks before they even hit the SingleHop network to cause any real disruption.

  4. #4
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    Its definitely sad to see this but again not much you can do other than look for a different provider. May be you could ask them to escalate this matter to a senior management staff and try and speak with him/her.
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  5. #5
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    They might have changed management or changed a policy towards zero-tolerance of DDOSed clients if they have a lot of complaints from other customers.
    Anyway it is sad to hear and I am sorry for the hassle you have to go through to find a new provider and move your data.

  6. #6
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    What do you expect them to do? You are affecting other customers.
    1 week is enough time to find a new provider and migrate your data.
    You also obviously don't understand the impact a DDoS has considering you are trying to justify it by the amount of GB's transferred.
    No one cares about the amount of GB's, it all has to do with the amount of bandwidth (Mbps) and PPS (packets per second) generated/caused by the attack.

    [rant]GB's are a term used by end users with no real clue on how networks work. Your host and anyone else higher up in the chain, really does not care about GB's transferred. Everyone else in the internet world except for the boobs using leased dedicated servers tracks network usage by Megabits and PPS. [/rant]
    Last edited by ItsChrisG; 01-07-2014 at 02:42 PM.

  7. #7
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    Feb 2012
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    The likeliness is the 1GBPS Port is a Shared Port, not Dedicated Port, therefore the DDoS can affect other clients, hence why they're terminating you. I think 1 week is more than fair considering you're affecting other clients by getting DDoSed.

    You'll need to find a provider who have DDoS Protection.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGotzmann View Post
    No one cares about the amount of GB's, it all has to do with the amount of bandwidth (Mbps) and PPS (packets per second) generated/caused by the attack.
    I'm leaning to agree with CGotzmann here. What does small attack mean? It's the severity of the attack moreso than it is the amount of the attack. If it's on a shared router and consuming the entire thing, than that can be a big issue for the host.

  9. #9
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    What is the actual size of the attacks? The bandwidth graphs you've provided don't really show anything, as the time scale is much too long. Are you not able to access graphs with 5 minute sample resolution? Also, as you mentioned they have a DoS filter, much of the traffic to you may be blocked which graphs from your server's switch port won't show. This is just speculation on my part, but I suspect the attacks are much larger than the graphs you've provided would indicate. Have they not indicated to you the size and scale of the attacks?

    Taking what they've said at face value, if you are being hit with attacks large enough to be service affecting for other customers and it's happening often and expected to continue to happen, then it's only natural for them to deem you a high risk customer and terminate you accordingly. The reality with gaming and IRC servers are that they are high risk and low revenue, making them a bad business case for the provider.
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  10. #10
    That is unusual, I haven't even used SingleHop for a year yet and my company averages 1-2 null routes a month (descent sized attacks too). They have never even threaten to terminate us as clients.

    I would really reach out to someone on the team there; they have always been very helpful to me in the past.

  11. #11
    2.5TB / 2 hours is about 3 Gb/s. This is a pretty tiny DDOS attack, as far as DDOS attacks go.

    Did you ask them about the scope of attacks against you? These days, 10+ gbps attacks are not uncommon, and could be significantly more if you've pissed off the wrong people.

    Would you be willing to pay more for additional DDOS protection? Did you bring this up to them? Dealing with massive DDOS attacks is not cheap, and they shouldn't have to do this for free.

    The bandwidth graphs you posted are not helpful for determining the size of the attack. You'd need a much smaller interval on them. Also, they may not even indicate the true size of the attack. If they're monitoring your 1gbps switch port, the graphs would never show an attack bigger then 1gbps.


    Look at this from the other side. If you were seeing network outages due to another customer getting hit with an attack, how long would you give them to move?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
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    Chicago
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    Hi OP--I am sorry that we are unable to continue to service your account. As painful as it is to make the decision to end a relationship with a customer, we have to consider the bigger picture. In this particular case, my tech team is telling me that the size of the attacks and the impact they had on other customers that shared the same network infrastructure as your server was significant. Dealing with large attacks, as other posters have mentioned, is expensive and often times very difficult... We allocated as much time as we could and did the best we could but unfortunately this is where it had to end up. We wish you the best in the future.
    Dan Ushman
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.

  13. #13
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    I'm sorry to hear about them dropping you after two years. I would think they would give you more time to move if there wasn't anything they can do to about the DDoS attacks. I hope everything works out for you, do your homework made sure the new provider can handle events such as that.
    Last edited by HostKoi; 01-07-2014 at 04:51 PM. Reason: typo
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  14. #14
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    If you want to stay with SingleHop, simply obtain 3rd party DDOS protection.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servstra-Sales View Post
    If you want to stay with SingleHop, simply obtain 3rd party DDOS protection.
    How much does that cost?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Servstra-Sales View Post
    If you want to stay with SingleHop, simply obtain 3rd party DDOS protection.
    Or just go with a DDoS specialist like BlackLotus.

    SingleHop did the right thing here.

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techno View Post
    How much does that cost?
    Well this varies depending on the provider. Check the offers forum for deals from those who offer DDOS protection for remote servers.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Techno View Post
    How much does that cost?
    The same it would if SingleHop offered it. If you get DDoS, get ready to pay for it.

  19. #19
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    Why not try cloudflare? It is cheap as compared to other only DDOS protection services.
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  20. #20
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    Well, the host sounds decent enough.

    They refunded you proactively. They gave you a whole week.

    It might leave you a bitter taste in your mouth, but what they did was fair ESPECIALLY considering there are a lot of threads here on WHT where hosts terminate accounts without much of notice (if any).
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  21. #21
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    As some others have said you could always try a third party protection, we have done this for some of our clients who needed more protection than we could currently offer them. GRE tunnel the traffic can also work great. It's not as good for game servers however depending on the game you're hosting it doesn't affect that much.

    If you still like the service you have there I'd suggest talking to them about doing that if they can work with you on it that would be great.
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  22. #22
    Take a look at Gigenet's managed services. They offer DDoS protection services and they may be able to get you migrated over within the week or offer you DDoS protection on your existing SingleHop server as well

    https://gigenet.com/ddos-protection/

  23. #23
    Yep, if a provider does not offer DDoS protection then it's null routing IP's or it's a third-party solution. A refund and a week to move is nice of them though. You could try solveddos.com and see how that goes...
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  24. #24
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    CloudFare = free... ... ... are you using that bandwidth for something other than HTTP?

  25. #25
    Did you add hardware firewall on your server?
    If not ask them.As I know their support is too good.I hope they will help you to fix it
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  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jaydul View Post
    Did you add hardware firewall on your server?
    If not ask them.As I know their support is too good.I hope they will help you to fix it
    What's a hardware firewall going to do versus a giant DDOS attack?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaydul View Post
    Did you add hardware firewall on your server?
    If not ask them.As I know their support is too good.I hope they will help you to fix it
    hardware firewalls are not for ddos

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by netdude View Post
    CloudFare = free... ... ... are you using that bandwidth for something other than HTTP?
    Although I support CloudFlare, I must say that using CloudFlare (especially the free version) is not a reliable DDoS solution. Sometimes the attackers are able to get the IP address that is (supposedly) masked by CloudFlare, or, CloudFlare will redirect the attack to your server.
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  29. #29
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    The best of luck finding a new provider!

    Honestly, I do not find this surprising as Singlehop is stuck in the stone ages in regards to their network and overall capacity.

    We spoke with them a several months ago and they are still using 1Gbit port channels to feed their racks which pretty ridiculous in this day especially when they sell their dedicated servers with 1Gbit ports.

    They only have a couple network providers as well and a handful of 10Gbit ports to the outside world. A good stiff wind could bring down their entire network if they ever become a target of any sizable DDOS attacks.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGotzmann View Post
    What do you expect them to do? You are affecting other customers.
    1 week is enough time to find a new provider and migrate your data.
    You also obviously don't understand the impact a DDoS has considering you are trying to justify it by the amount of GB's transferred.
    Sad to hear, but not really too surprised they are dropping you. If you are affecting say, 3 other customers, they risk losing 3-4 customers instead of 1.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGotzmann View Post
    What do you expect them to do? You are affecting other customers.
    1 week is enough time to find a new provider and migrate your data.
    You also obviously don't understand the impact a DDoS has considering you are trying to justify it by the amount of GB's transferred.
    Sad to hear, but not really surprised they are dropping you. If you are affecting say, 3 other customers, they risk losing 3-4 customers instead of 1.
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  32. #32
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    Post Hi,

    Quote Originally Posted by CBH-Nick View Post
    Although I support CloudFlare, I must say that using CloudFlare (especially the free version) is not a reliable DDoS solution. Sometimes the attackers are able to get the IP address that is (supposedly) masked by CloudFlare, or, CloudFlare will redirect the attack to your server.
    We only offer limited protection from DDoS attacks on a Free or Pro plan at this time via "I'm Under Attack" mode.

    We have some tips in our knowledge base about mitigating the probability that someone will locate your server IP (we don't position ourselves as an IP hiding/protection service). We can only proxy web traffic records.
    CloudFlare Community Evangelist

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGotzmann View Post
    1 week is enough time to find a new provider and migrate your data.
    While I agree with most of this thread, and with SingleHop's decision, I don't completely agree with this.

    Migrating can be a massive effort. When the OP is having to ask for hosts to even consider, its going to be a rush to find them, communicate/get quotes, do proper research, and then migrate perhaps after their 24 hour set up time and begin what could be a complicated set up of the new server. Although every one knows it, they still talk like migrating is just transferring some data and you're good.

    There are so many factors out of the customer's hands that can make migrating in a week unrealistic, like if they need longer for their payments to clear because they live in a foreign country, transferring domains if you have them under the hosting company. And then there are all the obstacles that the customer does have control over.

    Hopefully the OP isn't going to be under too much pressure migrating in a week. Just staying that I don't feel "a week to move is enough" is always correct.

    PS: SingleHop also does fully managed. So the OP may not have the technical skills to migrate himself, therefore who he hires or moves to may have to figure out what SingleHop has done in the past and try to replicate all their 2 years of work in a week.
    Last edited by HackedServer; 01-13-2014 at 04:59 PM.

  34. #34
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    The world isn't perfect, even less so when you are involved in high risk business or activities.

    Being a target for DDoS means you are operating a high risk business/activity... and thus the consequences.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by danushman View Post
    Hi OP--I am sorry that we are unable to continue to service your account. As painful as it is to make the decision to end a relationship with a customer, we have to consider the bigger picture. In this particular case, my tech team is telling me that the size of the attacks and the impact they had on other customers that shared the same network infrastructure as your server was significant. Dealing with large attacks, as other posters have mentioned, is expensive and often times very difficult... We allocated as much time as we could and did the best we could but unfortunately this is where it had to end up. We wish you the best in the future.
    Dan Ushman
    Agree with singlehop in this case, like Dan says its also time consuming to deal with attacks.

    Its interesting how more and more people minimize ddos attacks and simply encapsulate the issue on bandwidth, most ddos attacks weve seen are about bogus packets, malformed in a lot of cases and more than anything in huge bursts which ends up in dealing with pps (packets per second).
    It doesnt matter you have a 1Gig port, they might be sending a few hundred megabits/s in aggressive pps and it takes a toll.

    DDos protection for the providers is expensive and some bad industry promotion practices have ended up minimizing the real impact of ddos attacks for a lot of people.
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