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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    For the Moderators

    Hello,

    What really is allowed in the request forms (host reply wise) ?

    I see tons of copy and pasteing (I report over 30-40 a day) but nothing seems done. It's the same 10-30 people.

    I see tons of mismatched offers, even people NOT offering what the requester wants (I report probably 5-10 a day) but nothing seems done. It's the same 10-30 people again.

    Am I being ignored?

    Are we allowed to post huge copy/paste things now or what? I mean, if so, I'm going to toss every bit of information into my posts and throw in some ASCII art from figlet on to each post and just see if people contact me then. But knowing my luck, I'd be banned for it.

    Just curious if moderators don't see this as a violation (though the sticky posts in the Request forum say it is) or if the reports generally take 1-2 weeks to get viewed/handled?

    Thanks.
    What does one host say to the other? "(HostA) Want to go see a movie?" "(HostB) Sure, can your parents drive?"

    I'm premium, and no, I did not have to pay $6 a month to figure that out.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    7,175
    The request forum isn't exactly the highest priority - that isn't to say that it's being ignored. Your reports are read, and in most cases the issue is addressed (I took care of 3-4 just last night).

    Here's a quick test I use to judge if it's copy and paste. On the suspect member's post, click 'search' If you see a lot of posts that have the exact same text with only the diskspace, bandwidth, and price changed - then it's most likely copy and paste.

    Me being a newbie to all this - how do you suggest we handle the forum? (the question is not meant to be offensive at all, I am genuinely curious). Should the member's post be tossed and member warned? Should the member not be allowed to post in the requests forum for X amount of days? Or shoudl we just ban the member for violating the rules (the way we have it now)?

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Location
    Missouri
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    Hello,

    Well let me give my thoughts (this isn't offensive either)

    Maybe it not being a priority is the problem. You have to look at what WHT used to be (I'm using used from when I came here) and what it is now. I'd strong venture to say 1/2 if not more of the members now days do not leave the ad forums. This being mainly new members (Febuary on), not talking about the older ones.

    I do not think a warning is sufficent for any rule that has stickies about it. If you fail to read them then you need to be dealt with. For forum rules themselves (ones on the link, but not ones or notifications with sticky threads) warnings could be used then a ban.

    To me, a copy and paster is someone who doesn't personalize their message. You can look at some requests (me, AcuNett, Bright-Byte, some others I see often) who personalize their messages. Some people (VNPIXEL) is just casual "Hi we can offer this check our site". Then you can look at ones who list every single detail about their plans, for example:

    100 mb space
    10 gb transfer
    Unlimited email forwarders
    Unlimited email accounts
    Unlimited email web mail accounts
    Unlimited email spam assissings
    Email catch all
    Unlimited mysql db
    Unlimited subdomains
    Unlimited ftp accounts
    Unlimited Cron jobs
    ... you can name everything found in cPanel (which could be summed up with 'cPanel <version>' or even:

    "We allow you to make all the subdomains, ftps, mails, etc you need" or "We allow 50 emails, ftps, etc"

    Then you also have the people who feel it's required to state everything about their staff....

    "We are only 5 months old but we have 15 staff who are 10-50 which means we have 3534 years of exeperience"
    "We have 15 people on AIM"
    "We offer 10 people at tickets"

    ... Okay, but if I am looking at you can't I find this on your site Where I have to go to order from you anyways...?

    Now you also get ones who show their network connections.

    We have DS3 connectivity to blah
    We have 4 gigE connections to blah

    ... Okay, but can't I find this on your website? Also, why do most pass them off as if they own them and give out false advertising feelings?

    Right ok, so now lets think about uptimes and money back guarentees. They can be included but why do some feel the need to paste their policies.

    Can we not all do something like (and yes some do, thank god)

    "Hello we can offer you this:
    X mb/gb space
    X mb/gb transfer
    Standard account features here: http://me.com/features.php
    Uptime guarentee of 99.X% here: http://me.com/uptime.php
    Money back guarantee here: http://me.com/guarentee.php
    <price>
    "

    Then you have some who also want to include every cc they can accept and payment options. Again, can't think be found, and won't this be found if and when someone wants to order from you?

    I bring this up because of the sticky that MattF makes saying copy and pasting is violating the rules. I agree. 99% of what people are posting is info people WILL find on your website if they want to use you. Why complicate their searches by making your post difficult.

    Yes, there are many who just plain copy and paste withotu changing anything, have for months[years maybe?] like Semaj. I don't see anything done about it. I can only guess senior or veteran members are getting away with more leniant stuff. But I do not know because I do not know who besides me reports users and I cannot blame moderators for NOT going there if they do not offer the services (other forums are more interesting no doubt) so I feel it's partially failure from members parts who post in that forum.

    I am not laying the blame on moderators directly because some members just complain about things and probably do not ue "Report this post to a moderator" like some of us do. If moderators do not know, they cannot resolve the issues or take action, so once again, I'm not laying the ugliness and chaoticness of the forum on you, or anyone, but more so of the people who visit it and try to make a sale here and there. Then again, the majority of them are violating rules left and right too, so I guess it's wise. heh..

    I'd guess without more people reporting users, or dedicated ad forum moderators the only way you could fix this is to only allow participating members post there. That would upset some, but atleast then most rules wouldn't be broken, nor would so many people get ripped off. It's not my forum though, so I can only try to help clean it up with the report user link.

    Thanks for listening anyways. I'll just keep sending in reports.
    What does one host say to the other? "(HostA) Want to go see a movie?" "(HostB) Sure, can your parents drive?"

    I'm premium, and no, I did not have to pay $6 a month to figure that out.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Location
    Illinois, USA
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    Maybe it not being a priority is the problem.
    Note that I said it's not exactly the highest priorty (formyself anyways). It's still a priority - but I tend to answer the other reports first - then the copy and paste ones

    And I was just speaking for myself when i made that comment - before any ofthe other mods disagree.


    Now i'm going to go back and re-read your post and see what else I can add

  5. #5
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    Missouri
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    I think you all are doing a very very good job. Do not get me wrong there. I am very glad to have you and SWR on the team.

    If I came off as insulting any of you I am sorry.
    What does one host say to the other? "(HostA) Want to go see a movie?" "(HostB) Sure, can your parents drive?"

    I'm premium, and no, I did not have to pay $6 a month to figure that out.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    A couple more points(and again note, I'm speaking for myself as a member, not as a mod):

    100% agreed that every last feature does not need to be listed. It can be summed up, or the offer could close with "Check our website for a complete list of features we offer".


    Also, why do most pass them off as if they own them and give out false advertising feelings?
    That's a whole other issue that's been discussed a couple times before - won't get into the details of that now (feel free to start a new thread in the main forums if you want to know what everyone else thinks).

    I'll start spending some tiem in that forum (beyond the reports) to help out and see what I can find

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    893
    Originally posted by DarktidesNET
    Some people (VNPIXEL) is just casual "Hi we can offer this check our site".
    To me that is spamming and should not be allowed. Cheating the rules. Also why I would never use them.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
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    Just out of curiosity, FTPGuy, why do you feel that this is spamming? Because this person does not offer what the thread starter requested? (Not trying to be snarky, just looking for information.)
    Lesli Schauf, TLM Network
    Linux and Windows Hosting: Scribehost

  9. #9
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    Mar 2003
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    893
    The request forum has rules, so they say. For a host to say "check out our site" dodges the bullet and is not an appropriate responce.

  10. #10
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    I agree with FTPguy, I have read it in the rules.

  11. #11
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    I actually have alot of respect for vpixel just giving a price and a quick statement. The long threads that should be books and sound like freaking car sales commercials are the annoying ones.
    Last edited by EBOZZ; 04-17-2003 at 10:52 AM.

  12. #12
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    There are no differences between long and short statements, the point being is if one's statement which doesn't fulfil the request and doesn't provide enough information make no point to post.

  13. #13
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    hey FTP,

    when did i do that? refresh my memory on that.
    ◊ James | sales@vnpixel.com |
    ◊ aim: vnpixel • msn: support@vnpixel.com • yahoo: vn_pixel
    ◊ http://www.vnpixel.com

  14. #14
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    speaking of the new rules, last time one of my reply got remove because i have this at the end (after i quote the price, space and bandwidth)

    "if you have any other question, please contact me. "

    What wrong with that?
    ◊ James | sales@vnpixel.com |
    ◊ aim: vnpixel • msn: support@vnpixel.com • yahoo: vn_pixel
    ◊ http://www.vnpixel.com

  15. #15
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    Erm, for the record, I did not, and never have, reported VNPIXEL for anything (if you thought that).

    I was using him as an example of someone who cuts to the point.
    What does one host say to the other? "(HostA) Want to go see a movie?" "(HostB) Sure, can your parents drive?"

    I'm premium, and no, I did not have to pay $6 a month to figure that out.

  16. #16
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    i was referring to FTPguy since he POINT out my name here. anyway, i just don't see the point of cut and paste tons of info available on your web site already. It just make the thread become so long. Just cut to the point.

    Space offer
    Bandwidth offer
    and Price
    Request features: just said we meet your requirement if you REALY DO.

    Do you have to list every single thing on your web site here?

    If they need more info, they know where to find you.

    just my2cents.
    Last edited by VNPIXEL; 04-17-2003 at 04:52 AM.
    ◊ James | sales@vnpixel.com |
    ◊ aim: vnpixel • msn: support@vnpixel.com • yahoo: vn_pixel
    ◊ http://www.vnpixel.com

  17. #17
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    If you just post what you can match as per their post, that should suffice. Everything else is not necessary (if they are interested in more, then they will check your site). Just saying you can match it, check out my site, PM me or email me isn't giving any information.... If I was asking for a host, I would overlook the long ones and the the "contact me" ones.

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    for example this request:

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=133402

    the guy just concern about the space, do you need to have these info:

    Unlimited Subdomains
    Unlimited Emails, Aliases, Autoresponders, Forwarders
    Web Based Email
    MajorDomo mail list
    Ensim Control Panel
    PHPMyAdmin
    Tomcat JSP/Servlet
    CGI-BIN/Perl/PHP support
    Unlimited MySQL Databases
    SSI
    FTP Access
    Frontpage Extensions
    Web Site Statistics
    Bandwidth monitoring
    yourdomain.com or you.hostingbig.com
    Free Setup

    ????
    ◊ James | sales@vnpixel.com |
    ◊ aim: vnpixel • msn: support@vnpixel.com • yahoo: vn_pixel
    ◊ http://www.vnpixel.com

  19. #19
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    VNPIXEL: Report it. I would if I saw it.

    Let a mod decide.

    Now, if someone specifically asks for everything they will get, or exactly what code languages you support and yada yada then I can see it being done.

    Most don't care, all they want to know is space, transfer, price, email info and control panel.
    What does one host say to the other? "(HostA) Want to go see a movie?" "(HostB) Sure, can your parents drive?"

    I'm premium, and no, I did not have to pay $6 a month to figure that out.

  20. #20
    Join Date
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    Kalamazoo
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    Originally posted by DarktidesNET
    VNPIXEL: Report it. I would if I saw it.

    Let a mod decide.. . . . .
    Always good advise. If you suspect a post may be in violation, report it. We'll try and sort it out.
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.

  21. #21
    Join Date
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    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
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    I personally dont care and do not have time to police the WHT forums but I agree with Vpixel. Short and sweet, Ive seen guys post that their package includes FTP, now thats funny.

  22. #22
    I also agree with VNPixel in keeping it to the point. If the request is I need 1 gig of disk space and 5 gig of BW the answer should be I can provide that for $20/month and link to their site. Perhaps WHT should implement a new rule allowing the host to only respond with disk space, BW, price, and a link/info on how to contact you? That would eliminate the other information which is available at their website anyway (email accounts, control panel, mysql, PHP, credit cards accepted etc, etc.) As a consumer that what I want to know I need 500MG and 10GB of BW how much? The other details can be obtained by visiting the host website and asking questions from a host. Limiting the responses to just disk space-BW-price would also shift the responsibility of doing additional research on the consumer

  23. #23
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    Don't forget price.

    But yes, that is my idea too. Just do the bare neccassities. If they feel your offer is going to benefit them they will visit you none the less.

    Just now I made an offer and got a PM from the requester asking why the plan isn't on our site (it was a spur of the moment custom one). Apparently, they do visit.
    What does one host say to the other? "(HostA) Want to go see a movie?" "(HostB) Sure, can your parents drive?"

    I'm premium, and no, I did not have to pay $6 a month to figure that out.

  24. #24
    Exactly limit reply to:
    Disk Space
    BW
    Price
    Link

    Anything else and the reply is in rules violation. That should clean up big time.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Bay Area, California
    Posts
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    I agree with DarktidesNET: it is not clear what really is and isn't allowed in the requests forum. From my reading of the rules most of the replies are out of compliance, however the mods either don't get to the reported posts, or don't agree with me because those same people are posting the same style of violation day after day.

    I'm sure that some people feel that many of my posts shouldn't be in that forum either, because I often post about a legal or technical problem associated with the request or with the replies.

    Like Darktides I am bothered by people claiming their provider's network as their own. Akash, you are completely off base saying that it's a matter for the general discussion boards, it's not. It's a matter of law.

    The Federal Trade Commission has published very clear guidelines as to what constitues false advertising. Claiming the resources of your upstream provider as your own is false advertising. It's a fraud upon the people who respond in good faith to the advertisment, and it's illegal.

    When WHT is informed of false claims in advertisments they publish then they have a duty to act. Failing to do so is in itself a violation of law.

    I recently proposed to eliminate the hosting requests forum in order to fix this and other problems in that area. I don't think there is a practical way that a force of volunteer moderators can be expected to properly police the forum in it's current condition. This is not at all critisism of the moderators, but of the situation.

    edit, added url:

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...hreadid=129967
    Last edited by Luxore; 04-17-2003 at 04:09 PM.

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