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  1. #1

    Hetzner lost my VPS

    Hi guys,

    Just wanted to share my recent experience with Hetzner AG where I had my VPS.

    Today they notified me that
    unfortunately, a nearly simultaneous double disk failure in vHost 724 happend and
    destroyed the RAID10 data storage. Unfortunately your VPS with the IP
    X.X.X.X was also on this vHost. We have undertaken extensive rescue
    attempts, but could only recover parts. We regret this incident very much and we
    would like to apologize for the inconvenience. The probability that two hard
    drives fail in a vHost at the same time is very low.

    It's honour for me be so lucky to spot RAID10 destruction. Though I suspect that "near simultaneous" actually means "during last couple of months, we were just to lazy to take care of that" I have no proofs of that of course. As you can imagine Hetzner guys were strict to enforce their no phone support for VPS policy even in this obvious case of their negligence.

    Moreover they don't care to provide a working replacement even if forget the data loss.

    Well, I just wanted to tell the story. I hope it can be useful.

    Max

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    290
    I am sorry for your data loss.Change your provider this is the best you can do.
    Failure is success if we learn from it.

  3. #3

    This is what I should do apparently

    They're really useless. I think it is what Hetzner means in German.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    934
    I'm sorry for your loss, but RAID10 dual drive failures do happen. While it may be 0.002% per year, it's not zero. Even with a low ballpark figure of 100,000 RAID10 installations out there, you're going to get two host nodes that fail. You definitely have a better chance at hitting a RAID blowout than winning the lottery, so I'd suggest not letting these types failures get to you.

  5. #5
    Well, I appreciate Math. I just realised I never saw Hetzner policy in regards disks replacement.
    And taking into consideration the way they treat VPS customers I think the server could live with 1 faulty disk for quite a prolonged time such increasing chance for the entire array failure.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    832
    Quote Originally Posted by maximadz View Post
    Hi guys,

    Just wanted to share my recent experience with Hetzner AG where I had my VPS.

    Today they notified me that
    unfortunately, a nearly simultaneous double disk failure in vHost 724 happend and
    destroyed the RAID10 data storage. Unfortunately your VPS with the IP
    X.X.X.X was also on this vHost. We have undertaken extensive rescue
    attempts, but could only recover parts. We regret this incident very much and we
    would like to apologize for the inconvenience. The probability that two hard
    drives fail in a vHost at the same time is very low.

    It's honour for me be so lucky to spot RAID10 destruction. Though I suspect that "near simultaneous" actually means "during last couple of months, we were just to lazy to take care of that" I have no proofs of that of course. As you can imagine Hetzner guys were strict to enforce their no phone support for VPS policy even in this obvious case of their negligence.

    Moreover they don't care to provide a working replacement even if forget the data loss.

    Well, I just wanted to tell the story. I hope it can be useful.

    Max
    If you claim to be hosting important data on some vps & don't take regular backups then I am sorry to say that data was never important no matter how much you cry about it. Its customer's reponsibility alone to keep backups especially when it comes to unmanaged servers.

  7. #7
    Hey, thanks for your advice but did I tell I don't have backups? The things that really bother me are
    1. simultaneous disk failures (I don't believe it was actually simultaneous)
    2. the way they handle this case (no service credits offered, no willingness to help, just some 'sorry' from a support rep)

    These are things I wanted to share.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    832
    Quote Originally Posted by maximadz View Post
    Hey, thanks for your advice but did I tell I don't have backups? The things that really bother me are
    1. simultaneous disk failures (I don't believe it was actually simultaneous)
    2. the way they handle this case (no service credits offered, no willingness to help, just some 'sorry' from a support rep)

    These are things I wanted to share.
    Simultaneous disk failures are rare but they do happen.Hetzner's prices are already too low so you shouldn't be expecting any credit.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by maximadz View Post
    Hey, thanks for your advice but did I tell I don't have backups? The things that really bother me are
    1. simultaneous disk failures (I don't believe it was actually simultaneous)
    Why not? You've heard of simultaneous disk failures on RAID5, usually during resilvering. Is it that much of a leap to realize that those same two disks on a RAID10 will still fail regardless? The only difference is the impact depending on the location of the second disk - hence why the data loss failure rate is lower - but not zero.

    Frankly, you have no proof they're negligent and are only going on your gut feeling that RAID10 failures don't occur naturally.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tchen View Post
    Frankly, you have no proof they're negligent and are only going on your gut feeling that RAID10 failures don't occur naturally.
    That's exactly what I said in my original post and further replies.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sledger View Post
    Hetzner's prices are already too low so you shouldn't be expecting any credit.
    We just take this differently I guess. I also sell inexpensive stuff but I do bear responsibilty for proper service.

    Well ok, I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just sharing my recent experience. I believe it's worth sharing.

  12. We have a few nodes with Hetzner and they are really quick when it comes to disk failures, everytime we sent a ticket for a disk failure the max wait time to get it replaced was 12mins.

    I do not think Hetzner was negligent and RAID10 failures can and will happen.

    Sorry for your loss tho
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  13. #13
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    Hardware do fail no matter what kind of raid it is that is why it is wise to have your own remote backup too.
    Specially 4 You
    .
    JoneSolutions.Com ( Jones.Solutions ) is on the net 24/7 providing stable and reliable web hosting solutions and services since 2001

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    Markham, Canada
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    I have witnessed simultaneous 2 disk failure. By simultaneous I mean within 1 hour... so this can happen.

    From our experience with Hetzner, they are *very good* when it comes to hard drive failures/replacements.
    Dan
    Check out our premium self-managed SSD VPS

  15. #15
    This is what scares me. I remember just over a year ago hosting with Kualo, who promised daily backups. When my site needed restoring they told me the earliest backup was 3 weeks prior. I was a bit naive then though, as now I never rely on a host keeping data safe (because of that).

    My VPS is at Hostnine now, and they were very happy to install http://s3backupwhm.com/ for me. Now I have automated backups to amazon s3. I know this doesn't help with your current situation, but perhaps setting up something like this will help next time.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by digitallog View Post
    Change your provider this is the best you can do.
    normally with unmanaged VPS, the backup of data is up to customer responsibility.
    Low Cost Storage VPS plans at webprovps.com
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by besthostnews View Post
    This is what scares me. I remember just over a year ago hosting with Kualo, who promised daily backups. When my site needed restoring they told me the earliest backup was 3 weeks prior. I was a bit naive then though, as now I never rely on a host keeping data safe (because of that).
    Yes I can understand what you could have gone through then but Hetzner don't offer any backups.

  18. #18
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    May 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex-developer View Post
    normally with unmanaged VPS, the backup of data is up to customer responsibility.
    Exactly, but this is what many people fail to realize & blame the provider when a simultaneous disk failure happens.

  19. #19
    Thanks for your support guys.

    I might be wrong assuming bad things about Hetzner guys. That was probably inspired by their support reps behaviour. I confirm, backup is a good thing to do.

    Cheers,
    Max

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2012
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    Germany
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    Hello Max, I'm sorry to hear about your virtual server and the fact we "lost" it. That is never a good thing and I'd also like to apologize for that.

    As others have mentioned, there is always a chance of multiple drives failing at the same time, so even with RAID there is a chance of full data loss. This is exceedingly rare, but unfortunately still happens. Having said that, I can guarantee that the drives failed within a very short space of time (i.e. nearly simultaneously), and one wasn't broken for months. I hope the responses of others in this thread have helped to convince you of that as well.

    If you want you can give me the ticket number of the ticket you've got open with our technicians and I will make sure to look into that and see if there is anything else we can do for you.

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