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  1. #1

    Kernel updates for users?

    I am currently on a VPS that is using KVM. I can run a full "apt-get update" (Debian) on that server with no problems.

    I was looking into moving servers, and tried a Xen system out - running the same broke the entire system. Apparently you can't update the kernel under Xen, and if I can't update whatever needs to be updated for security purposes, I'm not interested.

    Can this only be done under KVM? What other virtualization software should I look for?

  2. #2
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    If the provider is using pvgrub or pygrub, you should be able to upgrade the kernel just fine with Xen.
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  3. #3
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    Yes, you can upgrade kernel under KVM. You can upgrade it even under XEN but just under XEN-HVM can not upgrade under XEN-paravirtualization.
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    Well, there is XEN-HVM and XEN-PV. The latter uses a shared kernel just like OpenVZ and the former uses full virtualization like KVM. Usually the hosting provider will keep the kernel up to date with XEN-PV and OpenVZ and you don't have to worry about it. KVM and full XEN-HVM usually only make sense if you require a custom kernel or custom kernel settings, because they tend to be a bit more expensive than OpenVZ or XEN-PV. I prefer KVM though, as it's a bit closer to the hardware.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitnet View Post
    Well, there is XEN-HVM and XEN-PV. The latter uses a shared kernel just like OpenVZ and the former uses full virtualization like KVM. Usually the hosting provider will keep the kernel up to date with XEN-PV and OpenVZ and you don't have to worry about it. KVM and full XEN-HVM usually only make sense if you require a custom kernel or custom kernel settings, because they tend to be a bit more expensive than OpenVZ or XEN-PV. I prefer KVM though, as it's a bit closer to the hardware.
    Paravirtualized Xen does not have to use a shared kernel like OpenVZ. It completely depends on how the host has setup their nodes.
    Most providers these days use something like this, and you have full control over your kernel, despite being paravirtualized.

    http://wiki.xen.org/wiki/PyGrub

    PyGrub enables you to start Linux domUs with a kernel inside the DomU instead of a kernel that lies in the filesystem of the dom0. This means easier management - each domU manages its own kernel and initrd, meaning you can use the built-in package manager to update the kernels, instead of having to track and update kernels stored in your dom0.
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  6. #6
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    Oh well, thanks for the correction, I wasn't aware of that since I never used XEN's PV.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitnet View Post
    Oh well, thanks for the correction, I wasn't aware of that since I never used XEN's PV.
    Then you shouldn't give information on something you don't have experience on
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  8. #8
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    My statement is only wrong if the provider actually makes use of PyGrub, right? So I don't see why it should be completely wrong, since apparently the OP's hosting provider does not use it. So as you said, it depends on how the hosting provider configures his nodes whether or not the kernel is shared among the guests.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitnet View Post
    My statement is only wrong if the provider actually makes use of PyGrub, right? So I don't see why it should be completely wrong, since apparently the OP's hosting provider does not use it. So as you said, it depends on how the hosting provider configures his nodes whether or not the kernel is shared among the guests.
    Right but you still posted inaccurate information. If you don't know what you are talking about then don't post about it... Plain and simple. You mislead the OP by doing this.

    It doesn't matter if you are partially wrong, the fact is you are wrong and if someone didn't correct you the OP would potentially act on bad information.

    Please don't post if you don't know the facts, it clutters webhostingtalk.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven View Post
    Right but you still posted inaccurate information. If you don't know what you are talking about then don't post about it... Plain and simple. You mislead the OP by doing this.

    It doesn't matter if you are partially wrong, the fact is you are wrong and if someone didn't correct you the OP would potentially act on bad information.

    Please don't post if you don't know the facts, it clutters webhostingtalk.
    So you're certain that every hosting provider uses PyGrub or is willing to enabled it for the OP? Because if you're not, then what if the OP looks for a hosting provider who uses XEN because of your suggestion and then he's not willing to customize the DomU config?

    If you consider missing the fact that there is a work-around (and as far as I can see it's really nothing more and not enabled by default and I'm not sure how many hosting providers actually use it) to allow loading of own kernels inside the DomU, then yes, my answer was "inaccurate". But that's questionable from my point of view, as well as your attitude to accuse me of "sig spamming", given that this topic is almost completely unrelated to the services we offer, but not to yours. Have a good day!
    Last edited by Infinitnet; 12-09-2013 at 11:46 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinitnet View Post
    So you're certain that every hosting provider uses PyGrub or is willing to enabled it for the OP? Because if you're not, then what if the OP looks for a hosting provider who uses XEN because of your suggestion and then he's not willing to customize the DomU config?
    Read my response: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...42&postcount=2

    I state if the provider uses these things, they can upgrade the kernel. It is pretty uncommon for xen providers to not offer this function anymore. The only time I see it is really old legacy VPS's.

    If you consider missing the fact that there is a work-around (and as far as I can see it's really nothing more and not enabled by default and I'm not sure how many hosting providers actually use it) to allow loading of own kernels inside the DomU, then yes, my answer was "inaccurate".
    Again, you said yourself you didn't know it was possible and said you never used them. If you have not used them then DO NOT COMMENT. Don't post about things you don't have experience about.

    But that's questionable from my point of view, as well as your attitude to accuse me of "sig spamming", given that this topic is almost completely unrelated to the services we offer, but not to yours. Have a good day!
    ????
    I must be blind.
    http://www.r00t-services.net/hands-on-time.php
    Looks like you offer server administration on your website

    If you offer these kinds of services, I would have hoped you knew about something that is very old and widely used like grub-py or grub-pv.
    Last edited by Steven; 12-09-2013 at 11:56 AM.
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  12. #12
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    Even if providers don't have it enabled by default they can enable it, like old rackspace stuff..

    Linode doesn't enable it by default, but you can enable it in their control panel: http://i.imgur.com/5cPobyy.png

    Many solusvm templates REQUIRE pvgrub, so it is enabled by default there.

    Its not new magical stuff.. Its been around a long time.

    Edit:

    http://forum.soluslabs.com/showthread.php/1604-1-2-10

    Solusvm added this function in 15-07-2010 in version 1.2.10

    More information for you: http://stacklet.com/howto/solusvm/kernel
    Last edited by Steven; 12-09-2013 at 12:03 PM.
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  13. #13
    Uhhh... so, this is getting a little more complicated that I was hoping for. But thanks for the answers so far!

    KVM = Yes
    XEN = Yes if its set up a specific way
    OpenVZ = No?
    SolusVM = Yes?
    VMWare = ???
    Virtuozzo = ???

  14. #14
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    SolusVM isn't a virtualization technology, its a control panel so remove that from your list.

    VMware = Yes as its full virtualization
    Virtuozzo = No as its container virtualization. You dont even have your own filesystem (technically).

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