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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    London, UK
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    Remember,
    You Get What You Pay For.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    288
    Yes you are right you get what you pay for but technology is advancing so prices should be lowered and services should be good.
    Failure is success if we learn from it.

  3. #28
    Thats possible because

    1) They're selling "Root"-Server this isnt a dedicated Server.
    2) They're mostly in a DC without UPS and a good Clima, no double Floor. Just cooling with Air. Sometimes Power Disconnect...
    3) Just the cheapest Hardware and Network.
    4) Staff they dont know what is todo. Bad SLA Times.
    5) If you pay peanuts you get Monkeys.
    Last edited by arpa; 02-27-2014 at 02:42 AM. Reason: edit: sry for diggin out old thread ...

  4. #29
    That is the nature of business. If you do not adapt with the times, you go out of business. Like someone has rightly pointed out in this thread, hosting is a game of scale. Like any other business it carries a fair amount of risk. In an ideal world we would want the client to pay the full amount that we pay to the datacenter + a reasonable profit(Dedicated). We observed that the client hardly uses 1-5% of the resources so our brilliant sales minds(cough cough.... innovation) had an idea to break up the server (shared hosting) to make it cheaper and more affordable on the presumption that the money made from sum of parts will be more than selling a single part. By the original poster's logic this (shared hosting)is what killed the industry. Hosting as an industry is changing. The very reason that we have technologies like virtualization (VPS's) that break down the server into multiple smaller parts is to make it affordable and to be able to sell more. The key is always to get the balance right. This being an unregulated industry there will always be price disparity. We as web hosting providers have to carve our niche. There will ALWAYS be someone who "thinks" he can sell more for a $ less and still end up making more money.

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by digitaltechnocrat View Post
    That is the nature of business. If you do not adapt with the times, you go out of business.
    Nothing against you, but every Project i saw, they moved to India because it's cheaper was more as Pain in the Ass and more expensive at the end, more as you can except.

    Workflow like this:

    1) User Reports Bug
    2) QS test the Bug and opens an Ticket with full Description.
    3) QS send it to India
    4) Indian starts working after lot of Questions (I dont understand this, and these please repeat)
    5) Indian sends back
    6) QS starts testing
    7) QS found again an Bug and have to translate again all kind and send it back to India.

    With an local Contractor its faster done, you save time and money. But its cooler to say "look i have a Project with 250 People" then "look i have a Project with 100 People".

    Thats the biggest Problem on our whole society: CHEAPER CHEAPER CHEAPER!!! NO COSTS!!!

  6. #31
    Yeah, cheap servers ok but make sure the uptime and provide the good support

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    .ssh
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    Don't worry about it, I have resold EU servers and still do sell them with management, plenty of people are happy to pay more and not cheap rates at that.

    People don't always want no support servers, add the extra services. It isn't killing the market, just helping to make it profitable for others

  8. #33
    Some new companies and startups will start with very low pricing to get business going and to grow a customer base. Then slowly change pricing...
    Hosting And Designs L.L.C. Online Since 2002 --> https://www.hostinganddesigns.com
    Direct sales rep: Lars Jensen 503-999-7518

  9. #34
    Price isn't everything. Resources might get oversold and customers might be in for a rude awakening when they need support.

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,455
    They are just killing themselves or the loans they took.

    Most of these companies are heavily in debt, they don´t last long if they don´t recoup the prices. Their strategy is to try to nickel and dime customers with extras/addons.

    You don´t expect them to really make a profit with this prices, in particular in Europe where energy is expensive, each server consumes power+bandwidth, and servers eat power 24/7.

    Their strategy is to have very cheap prices, and once you are hooked, you usually have no option but to agree to extras. Charge for reboot, hardware drive changes, OS reload, etc, once you add all of them its costs you more or less the same.

    Since their prices are very cheap they tend to have all type of hidden limits in terms of network, you can´t really speed up or consume allot of bandwidth without them suspending you for what ever reason they can think off.

    Some can actually last 1 or 2 years, once the money is gone they go bankrupt or just increase prices. Said that, that could also be a marketing trick, when they start out to get clients they undersell their servers, once they have enough customers they raise price to make up for the loss. This may or not work, since most customers leave when prices go up.

    The problem is since they are cheap they attract cheap customers, with all type of issues, malware, dos attacks, etc, so cheap ends up costing them allot more in the end in terms of support.

    And no, they are not killing the market, just like free hosting did not killed paid hosting either. Anyone knows free hosting is not serious and I would rather get a good VPS than some of this cheap servers unless its a server for development, some backup, etc, nothing serious.

    Cheap is not a problem if what they offer is very simple and thats it and it works.

    Problem is usually that cheap does not go along so fine with good services. Unless they focus on a specific market and only that, cheap usually means they are lowering their costs somewhere, and there is no magic here, just figure out where they are lowering their costs, they are taking something away that other providers have, it may be hidden but there surely is something missing since they are saving money somewhere.
    Last edited by nibb; 03-06-2014 at 05:46 PM.

  11. #36
    I believe the hosting market is evolving, as more affordable hardware is flooding the market. How providers can innovate and market their products through this period of change, will determine the course of a hosting business.

  12. #37
    Yes, that is expected.
    This is mainly because there are more demand and this high demand for hosting drives costs down.

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lincolnshire, UK
    Posts
    10
    What is more worrying is how the diy platforms have evolved with "free" services covering web hosting and web design, sure those diy solutions can't ever replace the professional services in terms of quality but then the target market is different.

    Hosting companies offering services too cheap target a different market to those with higher prices, it's really the same across so many things in life, it all depends what market you are planning to target.

  14. #39
    Cheap isn't always the best, i'd go for a well known host over some cheap one any day.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    588
    Hosting market is growing and will continue to grow and evolve, regardless what pricing models are out there. As Hosters we need to grow and evolve with new products offerings, and use and leverage our resources to expand. In the end, we need to make a profit.
    Now without mentioning names, how would you like to put your business in a cheap not profitable hosting company that moves in the middle of the night and then sells you as a customer to anther company a week later??? .. oh the new company raises the prices by 400% ..
    Rebel Networks
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    Please Visit us @ www.rebelnetworks.com

  16. #41

    Cheap vps

    Quote Originally Posted by pplsurf View Post
    IMO competition does not kill a market... it just makes service better.
    Correct...With fierce competition,cost for various hosting products are coming down.Good support then becomes the selling point.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALEXEI_M View Post
    I just seen some of the European hosting companies are offering very low cost Servers . Under $ 30

    They are killing the hosting market. What do you think about that ?

    Keep an eye on them.

    See what people are saying about them, and watch how long it takes for them to either be bought out or shut down.

  18. #43

    Cheap vps

    Quote Originally Posted by PingedHost View Post
    I'd rather go with a free host, they are the same thing...
    I think its extremely difficult to find a host who provides free VPS let alone decent trial time

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by hankqny View Post
    Price isn't everything. Resources might get oversold and customers might be in for a rude awakening when they need support.
    Overselling may not technically be a bad thing.This is simply utilising the ful resources of a given server.
    I have seen hosts provide for example 5 gbs of webspace and most clients will not use even 2. It makes sense to sell unused space as long as the client will never feel short-changed

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    344
    What are you doing with old hardware? A reseller will take an Athlon X2 5600 and give you about 10 Euro, 20 Euro with hard disks.

    And many data centers do not have space problems or saturated bandwidth, so if the cost covers the energy and cooling they can sell it as a none supported low end budget product. And i'm writing this on a 7 year old Q6600, a system which is still good - and i just acquired a Kimsufi server with the same CPU for 17 Euro (4GB, 2x500 Disk, 100MBit unmetered).

    The only question is will this cannibalize the sales of higher priced services? The answer is clearly NO, it's a general business strategy that everyone follows now with different low/premium brands for cheap charlies or the people with too much money who don't know exactly what would be good enough for them.

    And i strongly disagree with the argument that they are deep in loans. The companies who really do this in large are well established like Hetzner, OVH, server4you all with at least a decade in business. There is a huge difference between european style of doing business and US american style.

  21. #46
    In some cases these cheap hosts with no support provide valuable lessons to customers. I've had customers go with a cheaper competitor after I disclosed by price. Many of them came back after discovering that they get what they pay for.

  22. #47
    I was just talking with a guy recently about this. He said many of the low end servers can be used no problem. He said the same servers used to be high end at one point. He said most of the problems are server setups. He said he doesn't know how many people he's talked to that run Drupal sites and such. They have been told oh you need a higher end server and oh well you get what you pay for.

    He went in reconfigured the server and it went from loading pages at 8 seconds down to 1.2 seconds. That was just making a few tweeks to what he said are the basic stock setups you always see. He said he could have gotten it even faster but they were happy with it. If they would check their website code and database to make sure it was running efficiently. They could have easily had it running a lot faster than that. He said if anything you can just put something together yourself and pay for it to sit in a datacenter.

    He said it's absolutely possible to set up your own high performance server configuration if you're willing to take the time to learn. I did because I had my own site and that was because it started getting 100k hits a day. He said he put a lot of time and effort into tuning his servers. To make sure he got the best performance possible out of them. He said if anything be wary of high priced managed stock setups. I told him I agreed. It's not highend servers that most users need. It's performance tuning and correct server setups. No he doesn't sell hosting. He is a retired colonel friend of mine from the army. He started setting up his own personal sites and everything started getting so expensive. He opted to put together his own server, configure it himself, and pay for it to sit in the datacenter about 40 minuets away.

    That is like a guy telling my mom she needed a new higher end computer. I said mom you surf the internet, stream netflix, and stream hulu. You do not need a high end computer like that one at best buy he tried selling you. I backed up what she needed. Installed ubuntu and she was fine after that. She said the computer seems like it runs faster than the day she got it. Then she had a wireless router from a black friday deal. She said the cable guy came over and said her connection should be faster that she should get a higher end router. I went online googled the router. Found where someone rewrote and had a custom file to flash it. Flashed it myself and after that not a problem in the world. I said mom people will tell you all day long you need something more expensive. They may try to say they have your best interest in hand and throw another company under the bus to make themselves look better. I said in the end they just want a few extra dollars in their pockets.

    I said the world is run on if everyone agrees to say this should be the standard and we set it at this price. Then everyone will buy at our prices. Anyone selling lower is pretty much the enemy. I can't count how many times. I saw the same thing in the army when I was basically doing the job of a project manager. Of course everyone will point at themselves or even people within their same price range. To say this is what you should pay for to get the best quality.
    Last edited by midion84; 05-07-2014 at 12:34 AM.

  23. #48
    ALEXEI_M, Our experience is showing us that the hosting industry is also facing other challenges such as fraud & chargeback other than the lower fees in offerings. It is squeezing the bottom line.

  24. #49
    The fact is, powerful servers are getting cheaper and cheaper, while the cost of support is getting higher and higher.

    If you are an expert at what you are doing, a decent cheap host is suitable since you can fix most of your own problems.

    On the other hand, if you are a shopkeeper who needs a website for your store, and you need some hand holding installing WordPress, having someone to assist you is golden. That costs more.

    So the price point of hosting seems to be more related to the amount of support you get, rather than how powerful of a server you get.

  25. #50
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by midion84 View Post
    That is like a guy telling my mom she needed a new higher end computer. I said mom you surf the internet, stream netflix, and stream hulu. You do not need a high end computer like that one at best buy he tried selling you. I backed up what she needed. Installed ubuntu and she was fine after that. She said the computer seems like it runs faster than the day she got it. Then she had a wireless router from a black friday deal. She said the cable guy came over and said her connection should be faster that she should get a higher end router. I went online googled the router. Found where someone rewrote and had a custom file to flash it. Flashed it myself and after that not a problem in the world. I said mom people will tell you all day long you need something more expensive. They may try to say they have your best interest in hand and throw another company under the bus to make themselves look better. I said in the end they just want a few extra dollars in their pockets.

    Classic. Seem similar situations play out like this over and over again.

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