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  1. #1

    The truth about Sago Networks acquisition of the Razor Servers clients.

    Razor signed the agreement in mid May and all clients were to be transferred to Sago Networks hardware and network in their Norcross Ga data center. Sago developed a plan to migrate the data of all clients to their hardware without consulting myself or the Razor staff in any way. Many assumptions were made. Their plan was to migrate all clients to Dell CS23 and CS24 servers. These are much older servers than any Razor clients were currently on, by years. There was little testing done with regards to trying to migrate data to these much older servers and in the beginning it was clear this scenario would not work. The Razor staff picked up this plan and attempted to make it work but there was nothing we could do. As we began to find out, there were horrific issues with the Sago network in Norcross. The GRE tunnel was completely unstable. This is when Razor found out they were using mikrotek routers like you can find at www.routerboard.com as the core routers for the migration. Obviously these proved to be ineffective at doing even the smallest job.

    Once the plan to migrate all clients data to the Dell CS24 servers was abandoned. Sago ownership decided they would take the hardware Razor had leased to Norcross and negotiate buyouts with the lease holders. The next migration plan was to take all the "high end clients" (deemed as ones having more than one drive or any kind of SSD drive), put their servers on an airplane and fly them to the local airport in Norcross. Razor staff was told to unrack, package and take 206 servers to the airport. The reasoning behind this was the plane would hold 4000 pounds and servers weighed 20 pounds each according to the Sago staff in Tampa. At this time no one accounted for the fact that only the most basic, smallest rack mount server would even come close to weighing 20 pounds. The 206 servers chosen to go on the plane were all high end, multi drive, multi processor rack mounts weighing upwards of 30 pounds each. There was also no accounting for all the server rails, power and network cables or the boxes and packaging material. This is when I pointed out to Sago management that we were clearly going to be overweight by about 2800 pounds. I was told "don't worry about it, it will be handled. They can shave weight on the plane". Sago flew one employee to Philadelphia to assist Razor with this project. I hired six additional people and paid them from my own pocket to assist with part of the project. It was at this point that the Sago employee told me he knew we were overweight but there was nothing he could do. Everyone in Philadelphia wanted to only unrack the amount of servers we knew would fit on the plane but I stupidly over ruled them and said, if there is any way to get all these on the plane then we should try. Long story short, I was instructed not to go to the airport because I might "tip off the pilot" to him being overweight. We unracked, boxed and trucked 206 servers to the airport in one hour thirty minutes. The pilot said we had to much weight. The owner of Sago argued with the pilot for 45 minutes then called me and said the guys were bringing servers back to the Philadelphia data center. Mean while we had made all 206 GRE tunnel entries so we had to go back and remove all the ones that came back to the Philadelphia data center. At this point we had all been awake for about 30 hours.

    The plane took 3 1/2 hours to arrive in GA, based on the FAA flight plan. Sago ownership argued with pilot about why it took so long and is firmly convinced the pilot stopped along the way to move another load, making him late. Mean while, there wasn't an extra inch of space in the plane. In fact, the one Sago employee stayed in Philadelphia so more servers could be loaded on the plane.

    It took almost a full day for the Sago staff to start to get servers to come on line for Razor clients after they arrived. The unsolved issue of packet loss across the GRE tunnel that had been there from the very beginning was rearing its ugly head now. The mikrotek routers could not properly handle the traffic and GRE tunnel so they would constantly crash, making the network in Norcross completely unstable for all Razor clients. It was the Razor staff monitoring the network and notifying Sago of the issues, down GRE tunnel, etc. The Razor staff also discovered numerous issues with the network configuration in Norcross coming from Telx in Atlanta, where Sago originates its traffic. The "redundant fiber ring" had no redundancy and has numerous issues along its path with switches and patches.

    By now clients were abandoning Razor. No press release had been put out about the acquisition, by the request of Sago ownership. That is when I wrote up the press release and submitted it to news outlets. To this point clients had not been notified they were being moved over 800 miles away. Once they started to discover this there were some very unhappy people contacting us. Sago ownership had specifically told me not to tell clients they were being moved to Norcross GA.

    While the network issues persisted the Razor staff attempted to do what it could to solve the issues in Norcross and pushed for the remaining servers to be migrated by truck, as we had recommended in the first place. Sago ownership finally "came up with the idea" to move the remaining servers on trucks to Norcross. The original reason this was not done was Sago ownership said it would result in to much down time for the clients. While there may have been some clients unhappy with 24 hours of down time we suggested to move the servers on a Saturday night in to Sunday to minimize the impact. Originally this idea was shoved aside in favor of the data migration, then an airplane. Mean while, all this time there was severe packet loss in Norcross GA and it was getting worse every day. The more clients brought online created even more problems. Finally the night came to move all the remaining racks to Norcross by truck. This project went relatively well as the Razor staff worked with the Sago staff to get everything loaded on two trucks and out the door in about three hours. The only hiccup in this part of the move was one of the trucks transmissions broke, leaving the second truck stranded. Another truck was brought out and the remaining Sago staff members had to move all contents from one truck to another in the middle of the night on the side of a highway. No ones fault and they did an admirable job getting it done.

    At this point the GRE tunnel could be shut down since all BGP announcements were to come from Norcross. The Razor staff hoped this would solve the remaining network issues but it did not. The mikrotek routers are woefully underpowered for this job. Lacking 10G fiber uplink ports and not properly being able to load balance traffic between them there was literally no hope. Clients continued to leave Razor in droves. Eventually Sago purchased a single used brocade router to replace the microtik routers but only helped a small amount with the network issues.

    Razors plan to migrate the clients was as follow: Move one Juniper MX960 core router and core switch to Norcross. Bring them online, open a GRE tunnel between the Junipers. Verify stability. Plan to move half the servers on a Saturday night to Norcross by truck. Bring up those racks in Norcross. The following Saturday move the remaining servers and core router to Norcross, bring those up. Done. No IP changing. No network issues.

    For the months of July and August I watched almost 70% of the clients leave Razor for other hosting options. Clients I had built relationships with, who trusted us with their data. I watched as Sago destroyed the company I had built from nothing. I was powerless to do anything about it. I have been in this industry for 20 years. Started as a reseller, worked for a few companies then started my own. I started Razor eight years ago with a credit card. At the time of the sale it was doing seven figures a year. Sago ended up firing the Razor staff, the very ones who were more qualified than anyone at Sago. Most of the staff at Sago has left the company due to the owner. Many of those people were good at what they do and it was a pleasure to work with most of them. Clients continue to abandon both brands on a daily basis.

    I am posting this in the hopes that former Razor clients understand what happened. This is not an exact blow for blow daily accounting of every particular event, it is an overview of the main subjects. There are hundreds of minor, daily issues that went on with this. I had taken Razor as far as I could with the limited resources I had available. I thought I was putting the clients in good hands. The Razor staff are an incredible group of individuals. "My guys" are the best people I have ever worked with. It was my mistake selling the clients to Sago. I tried to make the best deal for everyone and keep my staff employed. I thought I had done a good job. As it turns out it was the worst decision of my life. To add insult to injury, the owner of Sago Networks has refused to pay Razor the remaining payments due under the sale contract.
    Matt Kelly
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  2. #2
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    So ... why did you sell it?

    The new owners sound like idiots. Sadly, WHT has lots of those. Why not choose your buyer more wisely?

    As for the payment, if it's worthwhile, take him to court.
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  3. #3
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    Weeeee!

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    So ... why did you sell it?

    The new owners sound like idiots. Sadly, WHT has lots of those. Why not choose your buyer more wisely?
    As quoted by Everyday, "I had taken Razor as far as I could with the limited resources I had available. I thought I was putting the clients in good hands. The Razor staff are an incredible group of individuals. "My guys" are the best people I have ever worked with. It was my mistake selling the clients to Sago. I tried to make the best deal for everyone and keep my staff employed."

    The thin candy shell of Sago was very sweet, but just that....a thin candy shell. Once it melted the true colors came to light.

  5. #5
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    You should have consulted an attorney before posting this on the forum considering you are likely going to be pursing him for what he owes you in the contract. Not sure this was the best idea to be posting.

  6. #6
    Wow it's unbelievable what goes on behind the scenes

  7. #7
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    Sago must have lost a hell of a lot of money in this acquisition. No wonder they aren't paying up.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    So ... why did you sell it?

    The new owners sound like idiots. Sadly, WHT has lots of those. Why not choose your buyer more wisely?

    As for the payment, if it's worthwhile, take him to court.
    At times, 20/20 hindsight provides you insight that no amount of due diligence would have been able to discover.

    After all, once those papers are signed the new owners can do what they want.

    Not saying that's what happened here, who knows.

    Sounds like a drama that should be playing out between attorneys and not on WHT. But, since it is...


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NexDog View Post
    Sago must have lost a hell of a lot of money in this acquisition. No wonder they aren't paying up.
    Sounds like improper planning on Sago's part. Sago should have never moved customers half way across the country. That would be apart of the problem. The whole migration sounds like it was poor planning and execution.

  10. #10
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    Escrow? This is exactly what escrow is for. Sorry for your loss. What was the total purchase price, and how much did you get? *popcorn*
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  11. #11
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    I am really sorry for your loss.They destroyed your company reputation which is used to be one of the best vps+dedicated hosting providers on wht.But i hope people understand what exactly happened.

  12. #12
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    Its a shame such companies exist but this does also raise awareness of their company and anyone who reads it shouldn't even consider them.
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  13. #13
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    @OP-> sorry for your loss

  14. #14
    Interesting read. This sounds like a terrible situation for everyone involved. Please do keep us posted on how things play out. It sounds to me like this story is far from over.
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  15. #15
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    Interesting read indeed. I'm curious to know why you sold as well. Your new facility looked like it was shaping up rather nicely when you gave me a tour a few years ago.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post


    Weeeee!
    Weee? this is by far one of the saddest stories I've had to read... I can't imagine the frustration Matt is feeling right now... what can be worse than knowing you are trying to change things for good and it all turns out to be an horror story.

    Happened to us a few years ago with a colo provider, all the issues we had I don't even want to remember, but thanks God we could recover, it wasn't that serious at all, but if with such a "small" issue we had and the frustration was that terrible by then, I can't imagine how you felt...

    Matt, my condolences... at the present time I hope you are fine...

  17. #17
    There's 2 sides to a story, and then there's the truth...

  18. #18
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    I would have thought million times with company having such amount of revenue and good reputation.I can feel the pain that you are having.Since they destroyed all reputation of your company.70% of the client left during migration and i am not sure how many more will leave.Plus they are refusing to give you payments.This is just terrible but its a lesson to learn for all of us.
    Failure is success if we learn from it.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris-WS View Post
    Weee? this is by far one of the saddest stories I've had to read... I can't imagine the frustration Matt is feeling right now... what can be worse than knowing you are trying to change things for good and it all turns out to be an horror story.

    Happened to us a few years ago with a colo provider, all the issues we had I don't even want to remember, but thanks God we could recover, it wasn't that serious at all, but if with such a "small" issue we had and the frustration was that terrible by then, I can't imagine how you felt...

    Matt, my condolences... at the present time I hope you are fine...
    It's all drama. There's two sides to every story. A professional company wouldn't come to a public forum and rant about things though.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    It's all drama. There's two sides to every story. A professional company wouldn't come to a public forum and rant about things though.
    I agree with the point that you made.Problem always exists on both sides.Let hear it from sagonet.What justification they have to defend themselves.
    Failure is success if we learn from it.

  21. #21
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    I worked for SAGO A lot of years and got worse and worse over the years. Finally I left and went elsewhere. Ever since this all started I have been hearing stories from SAGO employees. Most of what I heard was in the post. I believe his story is completely accurate. Google Miller Cooper see how many lawsuits he is in.... He loves not paying people.

    Sorry to hear things went so badly for you Matt. I sold my small hosting company last year and I felt the whole time I was going to get taken. Luckily enough I was not...

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    It's all drama. There's two sides to every story. A professional company wouldn't come to a public forum and rant about things though.
    Sorry, I'm just not good with drama

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by shell-box View Post
    Google Miller Cooper
    The guy is 74 years old.

    Not just a wee bit old for tech, but to be working, period.
    Article from 10 years ago: http://www.sptimes.com/2003/03/19/So..._oddly_h.shtml
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  24. #24
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    One thing that just baffles me; if things went downhill in May and you have sold the company how come you're still advertising it on the offers forum?
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam9000 View Post
    One thing that just baffles me; if things went downhill in May and you have sold the company how come you're still advertising it on the offers forum?
    I assume things went downhill since that last post of his, especially considering the domain doesn't appear to be active anymore...

  26. #26
    One thing that just baffles me; if things went downhill in May and you have sold the company how come you're still advertising it on the offers forum?
    Sago had hired my staff and myself. I was the Director of Dedicated Server Sales. So this entire time I was trying to get more sales for the company, hoping things would turn around.
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  27. #27
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    I believe Everyday is telling truth.But you should have sold your company to trusted companies that are Liquidweb,Hivelocity,gnax,gigenet and some more Why in world you have chosen this unpopular company.I never even heard about this company sagonet.It is due to razorservers purchase they are becoming popular.
    Failure is success if we learn from it.

  28. #28
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    Terrible story.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everyday View Post
    Sago had hired my staff and myself. I was the Director of Dedicated Server Sales. So this entire time I was trying to get more sales for the company, hoping things would turn around.

    I can feel your pain, it's such a dramatic situation.

    I hope you end up building another company, I'm sure lots of your old clients will get back to you and such profit will help you and your family, I hope.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everyday View Post
    Matt Kelly
    Searching for the next chapter...
    Interesting story, but sadly one that seems to happen a lot in the web hosting space.

    Anyway Captain Kelly, let me know what you come up with for your next chapter and if you're looking to build out another ISP in the future.

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  31. #31
    There's 2 sides to a story, and then there's the truth...
    Plenty of people know the truth, including all the employees who left Sago after they saw how things were being handled.

    For the record, you might want to add a signature to your posts so people know you are a Sago representative Techgirl24.
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  32. #32
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    Thanks for telling the story.

    In this case I don't get the comments about "professional companies on a public forum". Matt is not being a company rep, but an ex-entrepreneur who wants to give an explanation and closure for himself and the clients that got burned. I've not been in that situation, but close enough. You've got contracts and obligations, and you want to tell the customers exactly what's happening, but you can't.

    It's very easy to say what you could have or should have done in hindsight.

  33. #33
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    I was never even a Sago or Razor customer, but I just received this e-mail:

    Razor Servers/Sago Networks IP Migration
    November 19th, 2013

    Greetings,

    Razor Servers previously sent a notification regarding an upcoming mandatory IP address change for your devices hosted with Razor Servers. This change will still be taking place however, we have improved our migration plans to permit the use of both the old and new IP addresses simultaneously for the next week to ensure minimal interruption and also permit the change to occur with your own maintenance windows.

    Sago Networks is combining our two brands: Sago Networks and Razor Servers. Going forward we are transitioning to using only our Sago Networks brand. As part of this change please note the following.

    All Server clients please go to your client portal:
    http://manage.razor.sagonet.com and make the IP address swap.

    If you require assistance with this change please do not hesitate to let us know and we can schedule a time for a technician to assist with the transition. Please remember, the cutoff/deadline you have to make these changes is 5:00pm Eastern Time on November 27th, 2013.

    Please send any and ALL requests to [email protected]

    Remember, it is through the above portal and this email address all support ticket will be opened and your issues or requests can be properly addressed from this point forward.
    We appreciate your business and look forward to helping and servicing your needs anyway possible.

    Regards,

    Sago Networks
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  34. #34
    This thread is sweet justice to my eyes. I had a dispute with Razor Servers earlier this year that resulted in me taking a few hundred dollars in losses. In my bank's office the associate I was helped by was laughing at how scammy the representative (matt) from razor sounded and how desperate for the money he was. The associate suggested I just drop the case and take the small loss. Matt even brought up a message to the associate that I had sent to him through their system about how "good razorhosting was" when really that particular message pertained to how fast their response was over SOMEONE SENDING THEM A FALSE NDA over my content. Matt also took the incredibly professional route of deciding to post details about my bank meeting on a web forum where I was commenting on their service.

    I posted a few warnings to my colleagues and other places about using Razorhosting. Then today I get an email talking about how they are merging, and then this thread. I'm not really concerned with the details, I just am overjoyed to know karma really does exist in this world.

    Matt, if you're reading this: Enjoy the money friend Sounds like you're gonna need a lot more to fix up what you f$#$ed up.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everyday View Post
    For the record, you might want to add a signature to your posts so people know you are a Sago representative Techgirl24.
    Interesting.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinaun View Post
    This thread is sweet justice to my eyes. I had a dispute with Razor Servers earlier this year that resulted in me taking a few hundred dollars in losses.
    That wouldn't be the same dispute where you claimed they "fraudulently" took money from your card would it?

    You know...that dispute where it turned out they did no such thing and the reason you were billed was because you didn't cancel your server:

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1232595
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  37. #37
    HI,

    Sogo not supporting Razor Servers clients, i fedup with their worst support.

    AM suggest you, dont try to buy servers form Razor Servers and sago, both are frauds.
    AM also trying to migrate servers to some. We aont do business with depending on sagonet

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by amar9290 View Post
    HI,

    Sogo not supporting Razor Servers clients, i fedup with their worst support.

    AM suggest you, dont try to buy servers form Razor Servers and sago, both are frauds.
    AM also trying to migrate servers to some. We aont do business with depending on sagonet
    Is your server down?I did not exactly get what you are trying to say.
    Failure is success if we learn from it.

  39. #39
    HI,

    Yes, i requested extra ips form last 4 days back, any one not responding my tickets. AM trying to call support, they are updating with out any commonsense.
    IT was very bad experience with sagonet.com, basically thay dont have knowledge and stuff and commonsense.

    AM requesting you to all hosting providers, dont try to go with sagonet and Razor Servers both are trying to fooling the clients.

  40. #40
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    I don't think anyone in their right state of mind will after reading this thread...

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