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10-24-2013, 11:24 PM #26Junior Guru Wannabe
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10-25-2013, 04:22 AM #27Junior Guru
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‡ David Man
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10-25-2013, 04:53 AM #28Web Hosting Evangelist
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Ethical, carbon neutral hosting and servers from Freethought
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10-25-2013, 05:12 AM #29
Hostbill Prices and Security vs WHMCS
They've been that way for close to a year and a half now, which is sad given that they could own the industry with just a slight change in attitude / practice
There are a few companies that use them, but they've gone the way of über now, completely abandoning your every day hostTom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
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10-25-2013, 09:50 AM #30Web Hosting Master
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I won't dredge up all the details of all the HostBill crazy that happened over the last 18 months, but suffice to say WHMCS is catching up in that race.
HostBill looks like as good of a package as Blesta, ClientExec, or WHMCS on the surface. I especially like HB's ordering forms. And the price isn't really that big of a deal breaker for me: if their helpdesk is a $200 add-on, then I assume it's $200 better than the one in WHMCS.
But all of the issues that came up with HostBill over the past +- 18 months make me wonder about the long-term stability of the company. Frankly they were (are?) acting like a company in its death throes, and that is one big pile of #NopeNopeNopeNopeNope.▐█▌Fresh Roasted Hosting :: High-performance Harrisburg web hosting since 2012!
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10-25-2013, 09:01 PM #31Web Hosting Master
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One also has to remember that they charge an arm and leg for support--$75 per ticket, $995 for 50 tickets. Gotta love being charged for pre-sales questions.
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10-25-2013, 09:04 PM #32Web Hosting Master
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10-25-2013, 09:43 PM #33Web Hosting Master
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10-25-2013, 10:04 PM #34Junior Guru
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They recently just removed the request quote and are displaying the prices now. It's insanely overpriced in my opinion.
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10-25-2013, 11:52 PM #35
LMAO... no, REALLY. I needed a good laugh to start the weekend. Thanks
Yet, not surprising given their insane actions over the past couple of years. Yet, even after charging $600, they still have the balls to charge $75/ticket after 30 days! I'd bet they're still charging an ungodly amount for helpdesk code too!
so, let's see.
$599 for hostbill
$199 for cPanel provisioning
$199 for helpdesk
$199 for Onapp (if you need it), or insertvpsmodulehere
This is just freaking hillarious!Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
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10-26-2013, 04:48 AM #36Junior Guru
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‡ David Man
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10-26-2013, 05:17 AM #37Web Hosting Master
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They probably don't. A lot of companies do this to limit their customer base. If you've got a developer making a nice wage, not having too many tickets, etc then he/she has little incentive to promote the business and increase the workload. Its all about ambition.
A good example is cPanel vs DirectAdmin. The guys over at DirectAdmin are happy with their customer base, and obviously don't want to try to go head to head with cPanel. So they stabilised the codebase, and have maintained a stable customer base without needing to constantly expand and bring in new staff.
In comparison cPanel reaches for the stars and spends a lot of cash to increase their customer base.
HostBill's using the DirectAdmin method, however to a much higher degree, with all sorts of prices and charges being used to slow growth.
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10-26-2013, 12:45 PM #38Location = SoapBox
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this is exactly correct
I see a lot of people complaining about the pricing of hostbill - and I guess thats fair - if its too expensive for you, its too expensive
having said this, you do get what you pay for.
since hostbill raised their pricing, everything seems to have stabilized over there. support is quick and responsive, and I certainly trust hostbill more at this point then whmcs (read this thread HERE )
now, to whmcs's credit - they are finally looking at our problem above and telling me a fix is coming soon - but, its still been around a month where my billing platform could not be used to process credit cards. however, since they are ultimately fixing this, we will still offer it as an option to our customers I think - but, it will be a lower cost option (obviously) and frankly, it should be. their support is much slower, their product isnt as advanced and they are much slower to fix core functionality when they break it
any idea what the costs are when your billing platform breaks your merchant integration and doesnt fix it for a month? new merchant accounts, migrating existing customers to the new merchant account, migrating customers back, bills not being paid for extended periods, reduced cash flow, etc, etc
the extra cost of the hostbill license is a drop in the bucket and well worth it. (hostbill had the same issue whmcs did with out payment gateway and got it fixed is less then ONE DAY) - who would you use and trust?
to answer the original posters question - I think any software product has bugs and issues - I think thats "normal" unfortunately - especially in this day and age where consumer expectations are so high, and their appetite to spend any money is so low... having said this, the way I judge a software product is how they handle problems and issues and how quickly they can resolve issues. for us, its hostbill hands down
end result is, if you can afford hostbill, its your best option by far in this industry right now. all the whining, moaning and personal mud slinging you see aside - hostbill is a better product, its better supported and we personally feel much better running it and knowing we can get support and resolutions when neededwww.cartika.com
www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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10-26-2013, 01:11 PM #39WHT Addict
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It is not just the software
it is the person who runs it.
I do not think you guys should put your business in his hand.
The man does not seem to know what he is doing.
Tomorrow he wakes up and he makes a mess with all pricing and policy .
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10-26-2013, 01:25 PM #40Location = SoapBox
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I realy dont think its appropriate to attack anyone personally because you dont agree with them
You should really go back and read up on those threads when all of this was going on
what I personally said at the time was, it seems they were simply overloaded and had to decide what sort of business model they want and who they want to service.
I personally begged them to raise pricing and fix their support - and ultimately, that is exactly what they did - how can I now say I dont trust them?
I get timely support, I get good support, and when something does break or I find a bug, I get timely resolutions
changing business models and pricing is difficult, as people kick and scream - and quite loudly - I still agree with what they did though - so, what is there to complain about?www.cartika.com
www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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10-26-2013, 01:37 PM #41WHT Addict
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10-26-2013, 01:48 PM #42WHT Addict
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HostBill is actually a very strong solution, however it's being hindered by it's one developer. $75/support ticket and the new pricing is absolutely outrageous. It's like Kris found a way to maximize profit while working less.
But yeah, the fact that the software has so much potential and the developer refuses to be reasonable is what has the people disappointed.
I want to move but at the same time I would miss HostBill.
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10-26-2013, 01:54 PM #43WHT Addict
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Again. The software itself is not just the case. You want to know if those people behind the software can be trusted too.
It must be a solid company with people who make right decisions not just run by one person.
Many thing can happen in that person's life we never know.
He might get sick, He might get nervous breakdown I do not know just any thing.
Just look at all those ups and downs change after change , hiding the price and next day showing the price, Not giving respect to customers who complained here.
The man did not open his mouth to communicate with customers in this forum.
So the software is enough?
On the other hand if Whmcs has so many issues it is because people use it and they find the security holes , It is popular
just wait and you will see hostbill might have tons of security holes hidden
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10-26-2013, 03:03 PM #44Location = SoapBox
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Hi there Vernard - I am honestly just very curious. Do you feel they are being unreasonable because they changed their pricing? or do you have other issues/concerns as well? I still have a few concerns myself to be honest, but, pricing isnt one of them - and the reason is that with the increased pricing, came the increased support and came the improvement/fixes we were all asking for
you cant have it both ways - ie I want better everything, but, dont you dare raise pricing
LOL
I can tell you that those of us happy to pay those rates are only using this product because of these changes. Without these changes, we would have gone a different way, and so would have every other serious provider
raising prices to a point where you aren't happy may really upset you - but, doesnt mean its "ruined their business". personally, I think they have saved their business
this is really bordering on slanderous. I can tell you they arent a single person company. I can also tell you that they arent a huge company either. I do find it funny though that single person and smaller hosting providers (who I personally love by the way as I think its the last great entrepreneur frontier) are the ones most concerned with this
Not giving respect to customers who complained here.
On the other hand if Whmcs has so many issues it is because people use it and they find the security holes , It is popular
just wait and you will see hostbill might have tons of security holes hiddenwww.cartika.com
www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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10-26-2013, 03:31 PM #45WHT Addict
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cartika it is a waste of time trying to make you understand because you do not want to accept. YOu have the money to pay and you do not care. but keep my word in your ear
You are also one who eventually loose.
You need to donate to him as you are rich . That man in in bad shape
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10-26-2013, 03:53 PM #46
Except there's plenty of competition out there. Blesta, CE, Uber, WHMCS, on the free level you've got boxbilling, and plenty more. They're not charging this much because "there's no competition", they're charging this much because they have no business plan to speak of.
How can one trust a company that requires people submitting security vulnerabilities to pay them ? That's just the opposite of 'promptly and properly'. The rest is , as you said, rather dependent on the person's situation and opinion, but to require people submitting vulnerabilities in your software to pay you just to get contact or open a ticket, yeah, that doesn't work.Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
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10-26-2013, 04:05 PM #47Location = SoapBox
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well, I am a little confused
I "think" what you are saying is I dont agree with your perspective and I will tell you what I know from my experience - good and bad correct?
the simple fact is, you clearly dont understand the dynamics which govern our decisions and why
I am telling you - as clear as I possibly can - we use both WHMCS and Hostbill - and right now, I am not comfortable trusting my business to WHMCS - I just cant operate that way - no matter the cost. I am also telling you, that right now, hostbill is delivering what we need and there is value there for us
there is nothing for you to "make me understand"
however, I would strongly urge that maybe you take the time and read what I have written and try to understand my perspective
YOu have the money to pay and you do not care. but keep my word in your earYou need to donate to him as you are rich . That man in in bad shape
if you do a TCO analysis between WHMCS and Hostbill (which we have done) - hostbill has cost us LESS money then WHMCS (and not by a little bit) - PLUS - they support us better. Which part of this is not clear?
Ideally, we would just build our own system from the ground up, package it, brand it, deliver it to our resellers, our channels and the market - but, we dont have the time or money to spend doing that (we chose to tackle backups and outsource billing/management platforms)
you have to pick your battles - but, I do ask you - PLEASE, PRETTY PLEASE - just because you may not understand what I am trying to explain to you, it does not mean that I simply have money to burn and dont care. That is 100% false. You cant run a business by simply throwing money away - I am not sure how you or anyone else would believe that about me or our business
its a simple and clear fact - and I am happy to outline it for you again and/or differently if you like
IN OUR EXPERIENCE - hostbill has a lower TCO then WHMCS, the product is better, the support is better and we trust them more because they resolved a processing issue in ONE DAY that WHMCS still has not resolved a month later.
which part of the above do you feel I am not understanding?
You are also one who eventually loose.
I can tell you that we used r1soft since the original alpha version - backups are more important and more difficult then a billing platform. when we saw r1soft going bad (at least by our opinion and re our requirements) - we built our own solution
maybe you are right and the same will happen here - right now, I dont see a better solution, or a more cost effective solution for our business. please show me how we could save money and get the features/functions we need by leaving hostbill, and I promise you, I will do itLast edited by cartika-andrew; 10-26-2013 at 04:14 PM.
www.cartika.com
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10-26-2013, 04:09 PM #48Location = SoapBox
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Hi Tom
Personally, I have really high hopes for Blesta
Boxbilling has some promise as a baseline if you are willing to then heavily invest in it and maybe make a commercial open source type of offering (we have thought about it to be honest)
the others just arent viable solutions. we would pay the money for Ubersmith, but, it just doesnt address our needs. Hostbill doesnt 100% either, but, its much much closer and more cost effective
to be fair to hostbill - everything has improved since they started charging more - and even though I know people hate paying more - its hard to blame them for operating under free enterprise. I think they are charging what they can, and I can tell you - for us anyway, the value is there
How can one trust a company that requires people submitting security vulnerabilities to pay them ? That's just the opposite of 'promptly and properly'.www.cartika.com
www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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10-26-2013, 04:23 PM #49Web Hosting Master
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I'm happy to pay a higher price. If our perfect billing system sets us back $5k, then $5k is what we'll pay. What I'm not happy with is the total lack of pre-sales questions, the rapid-fire price changes (often a sign of a company in distress), the charge for reporting bugs, and the nickle-and-dime pricing strategy.
I know some people are very happy with Hostbill, and more power to them. Some people also don't feel WHMCS has any security problems.
this is really bordering on slanderous.▐█▌Fresh Roasted Hosting :: High-performance Harrisburg web hosting since 2012!
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10-26-2013, 04:35 PM #50Location = SoapBox
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I dont disagree with you - I also did not like the changes the company went through
at the time, if you read back, you would have seen me clearly state - I can accept a company changing strategy as long as the end result resolved the main complaints and issues I had. to date, they have, so, how can I really complain?
do I think they are perfect? absolutely not. I dont for example like their price changes, and I hope they settle in now for awhile. I also dont like how many times little things break (regardless that they put out so many fixes/updates and so frequently) - I would still like some better testing before stuff is rolled out
end of the day, they are MUCH better now. I am hoping they keep improving, because its been quite positive the last 6 months or so
I know some people are very happy with Hostbill, and more power to them. Some people also don't feel WHMCS has any security problems.
as you said, show me the perfect solution, and Ill pay any price. since that doesnt really exist, show me the closest thing I can get and lets see if we can make it better or if we have to go a different direction
There is nothing about his post that is in any way defamatory. Not even close.
theres a right way and a wrong way to communicate and discuss, and resorting to tactics like that is not only unprofessional, but, unacceptable (at least in my opinion). I am amazed how many personal attacks WHT seems to allow on this particular subject - its not okwww.cartika.com
www.clusterlogics.com - You simply cannot run a hosting company without this software. Backups, Disaster Recovery, Big Data, Virtualization. 20 years of building software that solves your problems
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