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  1. #1
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    Hostbill Prices and Security vs WHMCS

    Hi all,

    There are really funny things... Hostbill in the past few month hide their prices.. and now just when WHMCS is passing a dificul momment all the prices are again available... and also they seem not to be made by indian techs.. because for the price, they seem to have been develop by tech's from NASA or NSA

    Hostbill seems a great software but is very expensice. I true believe WHMCS security problem will be resolve and vs Hostbill, WHMCS is a lot cheaper and has a bunch of features.

    Also and what about Hostbill security, is it really that good? I a scale vs WHMCS from 1 to 10?

    10 Points better, or it just have not been attacked by some motivated and good hacker??

    In a simple way, how does Hostbill security stands against WHMCS?

  2. #2
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    Well,
    Hostbill has had security issues just like whmcs.. For example there was a security hole where you could download a database backup without even logging in.
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  3. #3
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    HostBill has been pushing a lot of updates lately so it looks like the developer has taken a greater interest then before.

    Granted it has had security issues in the past but they have been fixed. They don't appear at an alarming rate.

    If you're someone that does not need much support from the developer then you should be fine.

  4. #4
    HostBill has had security issues, but to the best of my knowledge nowhere near as many as WHMCS has had. As the above poster mentioned, if you don't need support from the developer then you will be fine.

  5. #5
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    Keep in mind, Hostbill may appear cheaper in the beginning but the latest versions come with almost nothing. In fact, you have to purchase additional modules just for the help desk.

    https://hostbillapp.com/clientarea/i...lugins/&step=0

    $199 for the Help Desk Addon.

    If you search through their site, you will be well over $1,000 in fees and modules to do half of what WHMCS is doing.

    Also, consider the amount of folks using Hostbill vs. WHMCS. The more people use a service, the chances are the more exploits and coding problems you will notice. I'm confident Hostbill is now run by one person. While it may keep his cost low, who is there to doublecheck the security?

  6. #6
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    People don't consider something...

    While WHMCS have lets say 50.000 users.

    How many does hostbill have ? 1.000~3.000 ?

    What is the chance of them having issues with the frequency whmcs does ?

    The customer base is simple very different from a company to another, and yes, you can expect to have less problems with a small company, however, it doesn't means you are 'safe'.
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  7. #7
    When any software becomes more popular and widely use, it is being targeted. HostBill had few security issues and the past but currently it is not being used as much as WHMCS. Another negative side for HostBill is their paid modules (i.e. Onapp, helpdesk etc.).
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAXZEUS View Post
    People don't consider something...

    While WHMCS have lets say 50.000 users.

    How many does hostbill have ? 1.000~3.000 ?

    What is the chance of them having issues with the frequency whmcs does ?

    The customer base is simple very different from a company to another, and yes, you can expect to have less problems with a small company, however, it doesn't means you are 'safe'.
    Spot on. (Although I'd bet WHMCS's client base is a bit more than 50k )

    It's all well and good saying "Well I'm switching to X, because X doesn't have all the security issues that Y has."

    The reason X doesn't have those issues is because nobody has really tried to break it. You forget, that in WHMCS's case, the issues seemingly existing for YEARS before they were spotted. What's to say 'X' wont be in the same situation - if you still cant see the code, you still have no idea whats going on under the hood, and have no possible way of knowing if its really secure.

    Then you've got the exposure factor. WHMCS is worse off due to it having a much larger client base than other systems. However lets say WHMCS now goes down the pan, and everyone moves to HostBill - the same situation could occur again just with this newer system.

    Put simply, unless you know with certainty that the code is 'better' and more secure, then theres no point moving anywhere. It's a sidestep.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedrojose View Post
    Hi all,

    There are really funny things... Hostbill in the past few month hide their prices.. and now just when WHMCS is passing a dificul momment all the prices are again available...

    Because hostbill is a looser, What I have learned and read about them is worst than all those security holes in whmcs.

    Forget about it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pedrojose View Post
    Hostbill in the past few month hide their prices.
    That's not all of it. It's been a roller coaster of crazy for some time, and they don't make a pole long enough for us to touch it now.
    In a simple way, how does Hostbill security stands against WHMCS?
    With a far lower market share, it's not a big a target, so hard to say. Based on an earlier issue with HB allowing the entire database to be downloaded by anyone (not even a customer or logged in), it's conceivable to assume it's not at all safe.

    While reading about WHMCS exploits, I came across someone that claimed to know of a flaw in HB, but since he had to pay $75 to tell them, he didn't. We won't even consider them at this point, but that's just a gut feeling.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-WHSuite View Post
    Spot on. (Although I'd bet WHMCS's client base is a bit more than 50k )...
    Yeah, was just a hypothetical example, but guess you got the idea .
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  12. #12
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    Hostbill is worst marketing strategy i ever seen on internet
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBGN Brian View Post
    Keep in mind, Hostbill may appear cheaper in the beginning but the latest versions come with almost nothing. In fact, you have to purchase additional modules just for the help desk.

    https://hostbillapp.com/clientarea/i...lugins/&step=0

    $199 for the Help Desk Addon.

    If you search through their site, you will be well over $1,000 in fees and modules to do half of what WHMCS is doing.

    Also, consider the amount of folks using Hostbill vs. WHMCS. The more people use a service, the chances are the more exploits and coding problems you will notice. I'm confident Hostbill is now run by one person. While it may keep his cost low, who is there to doublecheck the security?
    And that's without the modules: https://hostbillapp.com/clientarea/i...stbill/&step=0

    cPanel: Price: $199.57 USD Once
    SolusVM: Price: $199.45 USD Once

    Then if you want a theme:
    https://hostbillapp.com/clientarea/i...themes/&step=0

    The prices keep on racking up.
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  14. #14
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    I think I saw someone mention this elsewhere, though it'd be awesome to have a trusted third party lead a team of security experts through the un-obfuscated source code of all software of this type and have it graded according to it's level of security and protection from a number of different angles. That grade then displayed in a similar way SSL site seals are displayed on the vendors website, verifiable too.

    The scores possibly based on (amongst other things), the levels of protection against all kinds of nasty events. Say in the event of a full server compromise, against attacks from valid user accounts present in the system, the levels of logging in place and the users ability to detect if something untoward is happening, it's ability to work with further lines of defence such as mod_security, CloudFlare, etc...

    We can't at the moment compare between two bits of software and say, "is X more secure than Y", as like others have said, until it becomes a profitable target then very few will put in the time and effort to discover the vulnerabilities in the first place.

    It's like users of Mac's saying their OS is completely virus free compared to Windows, until adoption of it grew, and next thing they know the Mac users have become targets too.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post

    With a far lower market share, it's not a big a target, so hard to say. Based on an earlier issue with HB allowing the entire database to be downloaded by anyone (not even a customer or logged in), it's conceivable to assume it's not at all safe.
    This exactly!
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  16. #16
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    My take-away from the previous thread was that the best idea would be to go with an Open Source control panel.

    Sure, it might not have all the features everyone wants right now but it would be better than taking a risk that the next control panel is coded as badly or worse than WHMCS.

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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    While reading about WHMCS exploits, I came across someone that claimed to know of a flaw in HB, but since he had to pay $75 to tell them, he didn't. We won't even consider them at this point, but that's just a gut feeling.
    Yeah, I wouldn't even touch them given their business model, but if this is true (you have to pay to submit a security vuln), there's just no way.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidman View Post
    My take-away from the previous thread was that the best idea would be to go with an Open Source control panel.
    Tell you what:
    You waste your own time and money writing it. When it's done, we'll all download it, and not pay you anything for it. Welcome to the open source world.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post
    Tell you what:
    You waste your own time and money writing it. When it's done, we'll all download it, and not pay you anything for it. Welcome to the open source world.
    I think you missunderstand.

    The Open Source route was to use an existing system and help fund that.

    Are you angry about something I've said?

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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    While reading about WHMCS exploits, I came across someone that claimed to know of a flaw in HB, but since he had to pay $75 to tell them, he didn't. We won't even consider them at this point, but that's just a gut feeling.
    We went through a similar issue last year.

    Found a couple security flaws in HostBill but had no way to report it without paying. Threatened in a post on WHT to full disclosure the details and eventually the owner sent us a PM and all was sorted.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by feelingbluenomore View Post
    Because hostbill is a looser, What I have learned and read about them is worst than all those security holes in whmcs.

    Forget about it.
    Wondering where the mods are about this post as I was pointed to the rules myself. I'm just wondering when rules apply and when they don't.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by veedub View Post
    Wondering where the mods are
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear View Post
    I think you missed the point there bear.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by veedub View Post
    I think you missed the point there bear.
    Not in the least. You wanted some sort of explanation about some moderation issue, and I let you know where to ask.
    How did I do?
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  24. #24
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    Yeah, I'm passing on these guys; I submitted a quote request a few days ago (when no pricing was on the site), never got a response and today I notice my account has been removed from their system and prices are listed on the site. I don't really care about the pricing, but why remove our account and RFQ without saying anything? Ah, well, I guess they were ok with losing 9 licenses.

  25. #25
    If you look at the code, it's nearly identical to WHMCS. Even the public code for that matter. Email Templates the same, configuration.php settings the same, API responses the same... Incredible.

  26. #26
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    Hostbill Prices and Security vs WHMCS

    Quote Originally Posted by anythinggoes88 View Post
    If you look at the code, it's nearly identical to WHMCS. Even the public code for that matter. Email Templates the same, configuration.php settings the same, API responses the same... Incredible.
    Interesting!!

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by anythinggoes88 View Post
    If you look at the code, it's nearly identical to WHMCS. Even the public code for that matter. Email Templates the same, configuration.php settings the same, API responses the same... Incredible.
    Hostbill and WHMCS code nearly identical?

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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by trustedurl.com View Post
    Yeah, I'm passing on these guys; I submitted a quote request a few days ago (when no pricing was on the site), never got a response and today I notice my account has been removed from their system and prices are listed on the site. I don't really care about the pricing, but why remove our account and RFQ without saying anything? Ah, well, I guess they were ok with losing 9 licenses.
    We had basically the exact same experience with HostBill a few months ago and ran a mile!

    It's almost like they don't want any customers...
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  29. #29
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    Hostbill Prices and Security vs WHMCS

    Quote Originally Posted by freethought View Post
    It's almost like they don't want any customers...
    They've been that way for close to a year and a half now, which is sad given that they could own the industry with just a slight change in attitude / practice
    There are a few companies that use them, but they've gone the way of όber now, completely abandoning your every day host
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  30. #30
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    I won't dredge up all the details of all the HostBill crazy that happened over the last 18 months, but suffice to say WHMCS is catching up in that race.

    HostBill looks like as good of a package as Blesta, ClientExec, or WHMCS on the surface. I especially like HB's ordering forms. And the price isn't really that big of a deal breaker for me: if their helpdesk is a $200 add-on, then I assume it's $200 better than the one in WHMCS.

    But all of the issues that came up with HostBill over the past +- 18 months make me wonder about the long-term stability of the company. Frankly they were (are?) acting like a company in its death throes, and that is one big pile of #NopeNopeNopeNopeNope.
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  31. #31
    One also has to remember that they charge an arm and leg for support--$75 per ticket, $995 for 50 tickets. Gotta love being charged for pre-sales questions.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FRH Lisa View Post
    if their helpdesk is a $200 add-on, then I assume it's $200 better than the one in WHMCS.
    You know what they say about assumptions!

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay H View Post
    You know what they say about assumptions!
    This is true ... I was giving Hostbill the benefit of the doubt!
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by TremorHost View Post
    They recently just removed the request quote and are displaying the prices now.
    LMAO... no, REALLY. I needed a good laugh to start the weekend. Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by TremorHost View Post
    It's insanely overpriced in my opinion.
    Yet, not surprising given their insane actions over the past couple of years. Yet, even after charging $600, they still have the balls to charge $75/ticket after 30 days! I'd bet they're still charging an ungodly amount for helpdesk code too!

    so, let's see.
    $599 for hostbill
    $199 for cPanel provisioning
    $199 for helpdesk
    $199 for Onapp (if you need it), or insertvpsmodulehere

    This is just freaking hillarious!
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post
    LMAO... no, REALLY. I needed a good laugh to start the weekend. Thanks



    Yet, not surprising given their insane actions over the past couple of years. Yet, even after charging $600, they still have the balls to charge $75/ticket after 30 days! I'd bet they're still charging an ungodly amount for helpdesk code too!

    so, let's see.
    $599 for hostbill
    $199 for cPanel provisioning
    $199 for helpdesk
    $199 for Onapp (if you need it), or insertvpsmodulehere

    This is just freaking hillarious!
    In a market with little or no competition you can charge what you like.

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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by freethought View Post
    We had basically the exact same experience with HostBill a few months ago and ran a mile!

    It's almost like they don't want any customers...
    They probably don't. A lot of companies do this to limit their customer base. If you've got a developer making a nice wage, not having too many tickets, etc then he/she has little incentive to promote the business and increase the workload. Its all about ambition.

    A good example is cPanel vs DirectAdmin. The guys over at DirectAdmin are happy with their customer base, and obviously don't want to try to go head to head with cPanel. So they stabilised the codebase, and have maintained a stable customer base without needing to constantly expand and bring in new staff.

    In comparison cPanel reaches for the stars and spends a lot of cash to increase their customer base.

    HostBill's using the DirectAdmin method, however to a much higher degree, with all sorts of prices and charges being used to slow growth.

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick-WHSuite View Post
    They probably don't. A lot of companies do this to limit their customer base. If you've got a developer making a nice wage, not having too many tickets, etc then he/she has little incentive to promote the business and increase the workload. Its all about ambition.

    A good example is cPanel vs DirectAdmin. The guys over at DirectAdmin are happy with their customer base, and obviously don't want to try to go head to head with cPanel. So they stabilised the codebase, and have maintained a stable customer base without needing to constantly expand and bring in new staff.

    In comparison cPanel reaches for the stars and spends a lot of cash to increase their customer base.

    HostBill's using the DirectAdmin method, however to a much higher degree, with all sorts of prices and charges being used to slow growth.
    this is exactly correct

    I see a lot of people complaining about the pricing of hostbill - and I guess thats fair - if its too expensive for you, its too expensive

    having said this, you do get what you pay for.

    since hostbill raised their pricing, everything seems to have stabilized over there. support is quick and responsive, and I certainly trust hostbill more at this point then whmcs (read this thread HERE )

    now, to whmcs's credit - they are finally looking at our problem above and telling me a fix is coming soon - but, its still been around a month where my billing platform could not be used to process credit cards. however, since they are ultimately fixing this, we will still offer it as an option to our customers I think - but, it will be a lower cost option (obviously) and frankly, it should be. their support is much slower, their product isnt as advanced and they are much slower to fix core functionality when they break it

    any idea what the costs are when your billing platform breaks your merchant integration and doesnt fix it for a month? new merchant accounts, migrating existing customers to the new merchant account, migrating customers back, bills not being paid for extended periods, reduced cash flow, etc, etc

    the extra cost of the hostbill license is a drop in the bucket and well worth it. (hostbill had the same issue whmcs did with out payment gateway and got it fixed is less then ONE DAY) - who would you use and trust?

    to answer the original posters question - I think any software product has bugs and issues - I think thats "normal" unfortunately - especially in this day and age where consumer expectations are so high, and their appetite to spend any money is so low... having said this, the way I judge a software product is how they handle problems and issues and how quickly they can resolve issues. for us, its hostbill hands down

    end result is, if you can afford hostbill, its your best option by far in this industry right now. all the whining, moaning and personal mud slinging you see aside - hostbill is a better product, its better supported and we personally feel much better running it and knowing we can get support and resolutions when needed

  39. #39
    It is not just the software
    it is the person who runs it.

    I do not think you guys should put your business in his hand.

    The man does not seem to know what he is doing.

    Tomorrow he wakes up and he makes a mess with all pricing and policy .

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by 19881024 View Post
    It is not just the software
    it is the person who runs it.

    I do not think you guys should put your business in his hand.

    The man does not seem to know what he is doing.

    Tomorrow he wakes up and he makes a mess with all pricing and policy .

    I realy dont think its appropriate to attack anyone personally because you dont agree with them

    You should really go back and read up on those threads when all of this was going on

    what I personally said at the time was, it seems they were simply overloaded and had to decide what sort of business model they want and who they want to service.

    I personally begged them to raise pricing and fix their support - and ultimately, that is exactly what they did - how can I now say I dont trust them?

    I get timely support, I get good support, and when something does break or I find a bug, I get timely resolutions

    changing business models and pricing is difficult, as people kick and scream - and quite loudly - I still agree with what they did though - so, what is there to complain about?

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