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  1. #1
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    Why OpenStack over CloudStack?

    Well i am sure it is no argument to state that OpenStack is winning the virtualization battle against CloudStack. Many companies are using OpenStack and so proud of it that it is like a marketing mantra to state your cloud hosting is built off of OpenStack.

    So to you hosting providers using OpenStack...why did you choose OpenStack over CloudStack? I heard CloudStack is easier to setup, and easier to manage? So why the choice to go with OpenStack?

    The way things are going looks like CloudStack is going to end up as a second class citizen in this battle.
    mission critical!

  2. #2
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    Both Stacks do have many plus and minus but after Citrix donate Cloudstack to Apache i could see lot more features and stability with the code than every before, Cloudstack with Basic Network is now a fully functional Cloud IAAS Software for web-hosting providers with few minor glitches. Citrix XenServer 6.2 is now fully open source is another big step through wards open source IAAS Cloud. Only .2 versions released by Apache Foundation so we need to wait and watch! ;-)
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  3. #3
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    Cloudstack essentially IS openstack. Openstack is the nuts/bolts/parts laying in a bin, and cloudstack takes it all, puts it together and makes it easy enough to setup/install so the average person/company could utilize it without a full time dev team managing it. Kind of like comparing open source Xen to XenServer/XCP.
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  4. #4
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    Apache CloudStack (ACS) is most definitely NOT OpenStack (OS). The code bases are completely separate, although CloudStack is able to use OpenStack's Swift for object storage.

    Also, there's no virtualization battle between ACS and OS. Both packages manage virtualized environments - KVM, Xen, LXC. ACS supports bare metal and vmware, I think OS does as well.

    OpenStack is winning the *marketing* battle - if you look around and ask folks, you'll find some very large ACS installations (in the neighborhood of 30,000+ nodes) out there. What we've seen is organizations using ACS prefer to keep quiet and get work done, not beat their chest. From what I've seen, a lot of the OpenStack rah-rah comes from integrators and folks who make money off organizations using OpenStack. Just my opinion.

    Personally, I moved to CloudStack from OnApp around 18 months ago after looking at OnApp, OpenStack, and a few of the smaller players. It was cheaper, more robust, way better documentation, better functionality and easier to use and set up. We did a meetup in Silicon Valley last week and took a room of folks who had never used ACS, and within about 2 hours had small CloudStack installations running on about 20 laptops (Google CloudStack Devcloud).

    From what I've seen and discussions I've had with folks, if you have a development team that can integrate OS into your biz, it's a great way to go. If you want to get up and running now and expand/integrate along the way, ACS is probably a better fit.

    re: the ".2 versions" - that's over 18 months with thousands of lines of new code. The release notes speak for themselves, those point releases are by no means small!

    John
    Apache CloudStack committer and PMC member

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkinsel View Post
    From what I've seen and discussions I've had with folks, if you have a development team that can integrate OS into your biz, it's a great way to go. If you want to get up and running now and expand/integrate along the way, ACS is probably a better fit.
    Ok you said ACS and OS aren't competing....and yet you argue they both do same thing...don't get it or maybe i missed what competition is.

    Also you mentioned ACS is more robust? And yes ACS is pretty much easier to setup..that is a known statement...but is it new thing that easier doesn't mean best?

    So you ended it with saying if one has a dev team OS is way to go...i mean that statement itself need no more marketing antics for anyone to want to go for OS...even if they don't have a dev team.
    mission critical!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    Ok you said ACS and OS aren't competing....and yet you argue they both do same thing...don't get it or maybe i missed what competition is.
    Never said the products are not competing. I said there was no "virtualization battle" between the two. KVM and Xen have a "virtualization battle." ACS and OS compete on the cloud orchestration front - they provide frameworks and tools to manage virtualized hosts. That said, our position is that there's plenty of space in the market for multiple solutions, and end users benefit from multiple solutions and competition between them.

    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    Also you mentioned ACS is more robust? And yes ACS is pretty much easier to setup..that is a known statement...but is it new thing that easier doesn't mean best?
    I like paths of least resistance. I like being able to quickly see the results of my toils, when possible. Is it best to buy an engine, design a car from scratch, weld the frame ones-self and install seats custom designed for the drivers body, or buy a BMW? Depends on your needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    So you ended it with saying if one has a dev team OS is way to go...i mean that statement itself need no more marketing antics for anyone to want to go for OS...even if they don't have a dev team.
    I'm glad you have concluded that spending man-months on building your cloud is a worthy endeavor and I wish you the best of luck on your journey. Others will reach the conclusion that they would rather get something up quickly, start getting revenue from customers, and then build out additional features, functionality, and customizations as they go along.

    Neither decision is wrong - depending on the circumstances, needs, and budgets, one will probably fit better than the other. I strongly suggest trying out a few different packages and seeing what works for you.

    John

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkinsel View Post
    I like paths of least resistance. I like being able to quickly see the results of my toils, when possible. Is it best to buy an engine, design a car from scratch, weld the frame ones-self and install seats custom designed for the drivers body, or buy a BMW? Depends on your needs.
    BMW FTW.

    CloudStack is not exactly so easy to setup if you intend to use advanced networking with security groups working, correctly. We found a number of missing steps in the documentation which we had to figure out the hard way.. All in all, we're very satisfied so far. Latest version 4.2 was an excellent release. Really raised the bar.
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  8. #8
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by EuroVPS View Post
    CloudStack is not exactly so easy to setup if you intend to use advanced networking with security groups working, correctly. We found a number of missing steps in the documentation which we had to figure out the hard way.. All in all, we're very satisfied so far. Latest version 4.2 was an excellent release. Really raised the bar.
    No, advanced networking isn't as easy as it should be yet. It's an improvement over 2 years ago, but plenty of room to improve more and folks are working on it.

    If you haven't filed bugs on the docs issues, send me some notes and I'll create the Jiras for ya if people haven't found the issues already.

    John

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by nokia3310 View Post
    Well i am sure it is no argument to state that OpenStack is winning the virtualization battle against CloudStack.
    Actually its the other way around, while Openstack is still ahead in participation, Cloudstack is gaining ground much faster and development participation is better organized overall.
    Having experience integrating Cloudstack and Openstack in large private cloud setups, we would chose Cloudstack over Openstackl any day of the week unless for very specific niche solutions.
    What is your experience setting up Cloud instances Nokia3310? can you maybe show us your Cloud setup and customized panel? did you use Openstack and Cloudstack already? what made you pick one over the other?
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Actually its the other way around, while Openstack is still ahead in participation, Cloudstack is gaining ground much faster and development participation is better organized overall.
    Having experience integrating Cloudstack and Openstack in large private cloud setups, we would chose Cloudstack over Openstackl any day of the week unless for very specific niche solutions.
    What is your experience setting up Cloud instances Nokia3310? can you maybe show us your Cloud setup and customized panel? did you use Openstack and Cloudstack already? what made you pick one over the other?
    I haven't really setup one yet..currently using proxmox and trying to move to either of cloudstack or openstack. And so far as am looking around...all of the big guys are using openstack. Even redhat is supporting openstack and ubuntu is like best friends with openstack. SO looks like i might end up there, willing to get my hands dirty so as long as it will be worth it.

    So am pretty much trying to see what cloudstack really has to offer for me to change my mind at this point.
    This will be for private cloud though...for my own use.
    Last edited by nokia3310; 10-22-2013 at 12:34 PM.
    mission critical!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlkinsel View Post
    Apache CloudStack (ACS) is most definitely NOT OpenStack (OS). The code bases are completely separate, although CloudStack is able to use OpenStack's Swift for object storage.
    It's more than just Swift's object storage. For example, the whole virtual console, websockets, API, and many underlying and end-user facing components and ideas were 'borrowed' directly from OS and now separately maintained. I agree it's not exactly the same, but ACS is very closely related in many of its core nuts and bolts.
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  12. #12
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    Still thinking of going for openstack but then like i said this will be for a private cloud setup...so is either of openstack or cloudStack appropriate for private cloud or just too complex/complicated to manage maybe?

    Currently using proxmox and so far so good but the whole mantra behind openstack and/or cloudstack as the next big thing is just so tempting i feel like jumping on.
    mission critical!

  13. #13

    openstack vs cloudstack

    We have been using CloudStack for a few months and we are happy with it but we have not taken into production. We use Xen Server citrix for many years and cloudstack was one of the best options. Also it has integration with HostBill.

    Cloudstack has an amazing panel for non tech people. By far much better than Openstack Horizon Panel. A couple of years ago cloudstack beat in any front Openstack but Openstack is getting more mature and there are more people/enterprises/vendors in the community.

  14. #14
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    We did choose cloudstack for our iaas platform after serveral months of comparisons and testing. Had to wait for the 4.1 release to go into production however
    Openstack was/is appealing and promising but would have required more work on our side.
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  15. #15
    I decided to use OpenStack for my IaaS platform, because it had more integrations with the software we already used and it supported more hypervisors at the time I made the decision.

  16. #16
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    We were going to use cloudstack in the beginning but its support of various storage technologies was just not there. Now with the latest updates, we're thinking of moving to cloudstack
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