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  1. #1
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    How long does your provider give you to solve a spam complaint?

    What's the industry standard for how long you have to fix a spam complaint once it comes in before the provider blocks your server?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    What's the industry standard for how long you have to fix a spam complaint once it comes in before the provider blocks your server?
    It is usually the norm to give a 24-48 hour window to respond to the issue and have a resolution in progress for spam issues. At least in my experience. Hope that helps!
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    Often enough, it depends on what you buy from your provider, volume, and how much you pay.

    Reseller accounts typically have very little leniency (mostly because the host can just suspend the end user account limiting the impact). Super cheap dedicated providers tend to give a lot less slack, than providers who charge on the higher end, and that's often relative to available resources, how well manned/educated their abuse department is, etc.

  4. #4
    Let me guess, you are at Hetzner, right?
    They are the only ones that block your server within 24 hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotsolis View Post
    Let me guess, you are at Hetzner, right?
    They are the only ones that block your server within 24 hours.
    Nope. Actually Instant Dedicated blocked one of our IPs after 5 hours. I found that crazy as everyone else gives atleast 24 hours, Softlayer gives 48.

    Was curious the 'norm'.

  6. #6
    On the other hand, based on my experience, companies like QHoster and Stagnom don't block server IPs. At least they should have warned you.
    Hetzner gives 24 hours and if it's Friday and you don't reply they close your server before they leave office for weekend.

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    I like to jump into it as it concerns us.

    If we get 1 complaint in, customer has time (24-48 hours) to get it resolved.
    If we however get repeated complaints in a short period of time, we take further action to stop the abuse. We cannot let a spamrun continue for 48 hours in a row and get our IPs or even subnets blacklisted. It all depends on the seriousness of the issue.

    I am quite sure any serious host would act in the same way.
    This did not involve a server, it involved an IP of a server, the server itself remained online & available.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24x7group View Post
    If we get 1 complaint in, customer has time (24-48 hours) to get it resolved.
    If we however get repeated complaints in a short period of time, we take further action to stop the abuse. We cannot let a spamrun continue for 48 hours in a row and get our IPs or even subnets blacklisted. It all depends on the seriousness of the issue.
    In this case, i feel they did the right thing. If a spamrun is detected, the block should be done as soon as possible, to ensure that the spamrun does not continue (1) and that the IP reputation of the provider does not go down (2).
    Make sure (to OP) that your provider has a valid 24x7 telephone number on file for emergency situations like this!

    Quote Originally Posted by GorillaServers View Post
    It is usually the norm to give a 24-48 hour window to respond to the issue and have a resolution in progress for spam issues. At least in my experience. Hope that helps!
    You will find that more and more providers have transparent, outbound spam detection systems and will block outgoing spamruns as quickly as possible.
    An alternative to blocking the full IP might be blocking the sendmail (SNMP) port in some occasions.

    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    What's the industry standard for how long you have to fix a spam complaint once it comes in before the provider blocks your server?
    How fast does Stablehost solve or respond to their abuse issues once reported by their upstream? 5 hours feels somewhat long in this 24x7 industry, can you shine a light on that? the norm of host 2 host abuse response is by the way less then 1 hour, we are all in this fast industry correct? surely you guys have a 24x7 support team to take care of things like this?
    Host to enduser is generally ~ 24 hours unless the spamrun is very serious.
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 10-18-2013 at 04:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24x7group View Post
    I like to jump into it as it concerns us.

    If we get 1 complaint in, customer has time (24-48 hours) to get it resolved.
    If we however get repeated complaints in a short period of time, we take further action to stop the abuse. We cannot let a spamrun continue for 48 hours in a row and get our IPs or even subnets blacklisted. It all depends on the seriousness of the issue.

    I am quite sure any serious host would act in the same way.
    This did not involve a server, it involved an IP of a server, the server itself remained online & available.
    That doesn't make much sense. Of course there's going to be more than one complaint. If someone gets hacked, a couple hundred emails are going to out. You *will* get atleast 2 complaints out of the couple hundred.

    You're not going to get your "subnet" blacklisted because of a single spam issue.

    This *DID* involve a server, I already told you by null routing that IP, you took over 200+ websites down, but apparently that's okay.

    Emailing us in the early morning because you're in Europe and then null routing us because we didn't respond in 5 hours is unacceptable. That's unheard of and not a industry standard by any means.

    If that's how you want to run your company, that's fine -- so be it, but that's not how we can do business with a company who is hot on the null route button for a single spam complaint (in months)

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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post



    How fast does Stablehost solve or respond to their abuse issues once reported by their upstream? 5 hours feels somewhat long in this 24x7 industry, can you shine a light on that?
    Really? 5 hours for a spam (abuse) issue in the middle of the night. I'm not sure what planet you live on, but most if not ALL companies don't have 24/7 abuse support.

    For small spam issues, we give clients 24 hours to fix unless it's obvious they are hacked and we take action as soon as we get the complaint.

    We host the majority of our stuff with Softlayer who gives us 48 hours.

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    @stablehost, I'm sorry you feel that way. You can take all kind of steps to prevent spamruns from happening by limiting the sending of outgoing e-mails.

    If you want our help for that, feel free to get in touch. I am not apologizing for being pro-active on the abuses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24x7group View Post
    @stablehost, I'm sorry you feel that way. You can take all kind of steps to prevent spamruns from happening by limiting the sending of outgoing e-mails.

    If you want our help for that, feel free to get in touch. I am not apologizing for being pro-active on the abuses.
    While I'm happy you are offering help, we've been in the web hosting business a *long* time. We already limit spam to 60/hour, but that still means 60 spam emsils can go out an hour, enough to generate 1-2 complaints.

    There's no way to prevent 100% of outbound, all web hosts know this.

    Again, if 5 hours works for you for spam complaints, it works. It doesn't work for web hosting providers due to the amount of abuse we deal with on a daily basis.

    The industry standard is usually 24-48 hours for spam complaints, and 12 hours for phishing and a few hours for more serious abuse matters like child porn, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    Really? 5 hours for a spam (abuse) issue in the middle of the night. I'm not sure what planet you live on, but most if not ALL companies don't have 24/7 abuse support.
    I live on planet earth and all serious hosting providers nowadays provide 24x7 support to customers with guaranteed response times well under 5 hours.

    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    For small spam issues, we give clients 24 hours to fix unless it's obvious they are hacked and we take action as soon as we get the complaint.
    Its obvious that you do not deal with cleaning up the IP blacklist mess afterwards. I hope your customers will not experience to much bounced mails.
    Concerning Softlayer - well i wish them good-luck once Spamhaus & co will start to escalate and blacklist /20s or all Softlayer netblocks.

    http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings/softlayer.com
    Found 11 SBL listings for IPs under the responsibility of softlayer.com
    Some dating back to 22-Jul-2013 21:18 GMT
    Ouch!

    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    While I'm happy you are offering help, we've been in the web hosting business a *long* time. We already limit spam to 60/hour, but that still means 60 spam emsils can go out an hour, enough to generate 1-2 complaints.
    Why not use a transparent detection? did you already look at something like the Spamexperts offer?

    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    The industry standard is usually 24-48 hours for spam complaints, and 12 hours for phishing and a few hours for more serious abuse matters like child porn, etc.
    Abuse is abuse, do you say you see abuse but simply ignore it unless you see more serious abuse issues? or are you saying you actually do not see abuse until ~ 12 hours after it has been reported to you? how does this match up with the several hours response time you want to give on serious abuse like Child Porn? does your upstream provider have a 24x7 number to call you guys in case of emergencies like abuse?
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 10-18-2013 at 04:30 PM.
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    I've been with a few providers and they all (so far) give 24 hours, which is really reasonable. But, as my clients are the end-user soon as I get a SPAM complaint I suspend them.. as from the time I get the SPAM complaint from my provider I cannot give my users also 24 hours.. as I only have 24 hours myself. So I just suspend my clients till I get some sort of communication going. Rather have one client suspended, then the provider suspending the full dedicated server.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    I live on planet earth and all serious hosting providers nowadays provider 24x7 support to customers.
    I'm not sure what you mean by that, I think you translated it to english wrong?

    I don't know a single provider who offers 24/7 abuse. Can you let me know of one that does, I'd love to talk to them about how they do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrentaHost View Post
    I've been with a few providers and they all (so far) give 24 hours, which is really reasonable. But, as my clients are the end-user soon as I get a SPAM complaint I suspend them.. as from the time I get the SPAM complaint from my provider I cannot give my users also 24 hours.. as I only have 24 hours myself. So I just suspend my clients till I get some sort of communication going. Rather have one client suspended, then the provider suspending the full dedicated server.
    Yep, that's reasonable. Glad to hear you get 24 hours to deal with the issue.

  17. #17
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    @stablehost

    Like I said, it all depends on the seriousness of the type of abuse. Unfortunately spam and anything related to that has high priority. Also as we didn't get a reply from your abuse department we are also unaware if you have acted on it or not. Again, we're happy to help find a suitable solution to prevent this from happening in the future, but we need you to be pro-active on abuse issues also.

    You have the right to disagree on how we do business, but we only do this for the sake of our customers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24x7group View Post
    @stablehost

    Like I said, it all depends on the seriousness of the type of abuse. Unfortunately spam and anything related to that has high priority. Also as we didn't get a reply from your abuse department we are also unaware if you have acted on it or not. Again, we're happy to help find a suitable solution to prevent this from happening in the future, but we need you to be pro-active on abuse issues also.

    You have the right to disagree on how we do business, but we only do this for the sake of our customers.
    You sound like we get spam complaints daily and not answering. This is the first spam complaint we've received if I remember correctly.

    If you were that worried because we didn't respond to your email at 3AM. Why didn't you pick up the phone call and call us?

    That just shows you prefer to just null route customers. Lack of customer service....

    Anyways -- enough of this ;-)

    It's apparent, your hosting is not meant for providers, it may work for other users, but not customers who resell web hosting.

    Moving on.

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    The nullroute was removed within 1 minute after your abuse department replied. It's not like we kept it on for 24-48 hours, it was on for maybe 30 minutes or so because that's when we got the answer/reply from you.

    I appreciate that you responded that fast and indeed, apart from this we haven't received that many abuse complaints, but I like to mention again that on cases like this we simply can't wait 24 hours for the spam to continue.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    I don't know a single provider who offers 24/7 abuse. Can you let me know of one that does, I'd love to talk to them about how they do it.
    We automated initial response and automatically identify and send it to customers, then review every abuse mail within 15 minutes it entered into our system. Why would you not be able to do this? surely your customers expect fast service and support? are we in the same (hosting) industry or not?
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    We automated initial response and automatically identify and send it to customers, then review every abuse mail within 15 minutes it entered into our system. Why would you not be able to do this? surely your customers expect fast service and support? are we in the same (hosting) industry or not?
    So, you're telling me if I send an email to [email protected] tonight at 2AM, I'll get a response within 15 minutes from someone saying it's dealt with?

    I'm going to try it ;-)

    http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings/swiftnoc.com

    Looks like your automated system isn't working

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    If you have a real complaint, you will get a response immediately that the customer was identified and the issue has been send on to the customer. I would try [email protected] instead however, as we are not Swiftnoc.com
    We then follow it up with the customer. If our upstream provider sends a complaint, we will surely coordinate with them on the progress - are you one of our suppliers? no, in that case we will not follow up with you, you will get the initial reply that we received the Abuse mail and what happens with it next. Can you say the same?

    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    Looks like your automated system isn't working
    Maybe you should try looking up under our company and URL instead?
    http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings/swiftway.net
    Seems to work fine to me. Yes, we do sometimes get listings and it is always resolved really quickly
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 10-18-2013 at 04:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post


    Maybe you should try looking up under our company and URL instead?
    http://www.spamhaus.org/sbl/listings/swiftway.net
    Seems to work fine to me. Yes, we do sometimes get listings and its always resolved really quickly
    Are you saying SwiftNOC is not you? According to ARIN, it's the same company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    Are you saying SwiftNOC is not you? According to ARIN, it's the same company.
    Interesting, as the bulk of our assignments come from RIPE.
    I will look into this. If someone sends abuse message to the wrong abuse address then surely, they cannot expect us to solve it correct?


    IP database registered email address for abuse:
    abuse-mailbox: [email protected]

    -
    database remarks:
    remarks: ---------------------------------------------
    remarks: In case of abuse (intrusion attempts, hacking,
    remarks: spamming or other unaccepted behavior) from
    remarks: SWIFTWAY address space, please mail only to:
    remarks: [email protected]. Notifications sent to other
    remarks: mailboxes will be left without any action.
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 10-18-2013 at 05:07 PM.
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    By the way, from your website i see:
    Blazing Fast Support

    Average response time is less than 15 min.
    Customers of StableHost have the ease of mind knowing that we're on their side with fast resolutions to technical issues with our services. Most of the time with issues resolved so fast, the problem isn't even known to the customer.

    ---
    So what is the problem here? maybe just train the support team to also respond within 15 minutes to abuse tickets and/or automate part of the abuse. You yourself already show on your website the expected response time on issues: <15 minutes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    So what is the problem here? maybe just train the support team to also respond within 15 minutes to abuse tickets and/or automate part of the abuse. You yourself already show on your website the expected response time on issues: <15 minutes.
    No. Support != Abuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    No. Support != Abuse.
    While that is true, they both need equal attention and the expected response time is similar if you are active in this industry, unless you run your own network and are ultimately the party responsible for the IP reputation.
    Your not, so your supplier deserves a fast response time in case of reported issues. At least make sure they have a valid 24x7 phone number to reach you in case of emergencies!
    After all "Most of the time with issues resolved so fast, the problem isn't even known to the customer". This is how it should be - it does need a very active abuse team on your side to accomplish that.
    Just curious: with nowadays technology, why not:

    - Filter spam proactively?
    - Detect spam while it goes out ? block it before it becomes an issue?
    - respond within reasonable time on abuse mails from key suppliers?

    Another one: why host 200 websites on the same IP you let clients send mail from? get a separate IP to send mail from to avoid trouble like this.
    Really, you are asking for trouble with the setup you seem to have running today, this could have been avoided with some effort from your side.
    Surely this is not what you like to hear, you want us all to take your side and feel sorry for you, as a host YOU carry responsibilities as well as YOU have to take care of your customers by utilizing technologies available to you to prevent issues like this from happening, your customers expect it from you.
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 10-18-2013 at 05:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    While that is true, they both need equal attention and the expected response time is similar if you are active in this industry, unless you run your own network and are ultimately the party responsible for the IP reputation.
    Your not, so your supplier deserves a fast response time in case of reported issues. At least make sure they have a valid 24x7 phone number to reach you in case of emergencies!
    After all "Most of the time with issues resolved so fast, the problem isn't even known to the customer". This is how it should be - it does need a very active abuse team on your side to accomplish that.
    Just curious: with nowadays technology, why not:

    - Filter spam proactively?
    - Detect spam while it goes out ? block it before it becomes an issue?
    - Host 200 websites on the same IP you let clients send mail from?
    - Not respond within reasonable time on abuse mails from key suppliers?

    Really, you are asking for trouble with the setup you seem to have and this could have been easily avoided with some effort from your side.
    Surely this is not what you like to hear, you want us all to take your side and feel sorry for you, as a host YOU carry responsibilities as well an YOU have to take care of your customers by utilizing technologies available to you to prevent issues like this from happening.
    You sir, are the biggest troll on WHT. Go troll something else, sheesh.

    You have *no* idea how a shared web hosting company works. Stop pretending you do.

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    I would expect no less than 12 hours for a non-critical issue - usually 24 to 48 hours. If the issue is critical and action has to be handled faster than 12 hours I would expect a phone call before or immediately after a null route was put in place.

    If any of our upstreams null routed us in less than 6 hours without calling first for a spam issue we'd very quickly be looking at alternative locations that were more customer oriented.

    Don't misconstrue this as me condoning spam - we have a zero tolerance policy against spam.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    You have *no* idea how a shared web hosting company works. Stop pretending you do.
    You are mistaken, i was involved in a 10 000+ hosting account company and a 18 000+ hosting account company in the past, working in this business from 1995 having my personal share of successes AND failures in shared hosting, telecom, access (dialup, DSL) and enterprise class hosting i surely know what i talk about. You avoid questions on abuse and spam prevention and seem to have missed that suppliers are more serious nowadays about keeping the sparsely available Ipv4 space for Content providers as clean as possible.
    You are in a 24x7 business, run it like a 24x7 business! give your key suppliers the same response time as your customers.
    Before i answer any of your further questions or comments - maybe address some of mine first. This issue could be avoided with careful planning on your side, its a painful truth i know that! admit to it and implement the technology to prevent this from happening in the future. Jumping to another host will be -temporary- relief from something like this to happen again!

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    I would expect no less than 12 hours for a non-critical issue - usually 24 to 48 hours. If the issue is critical and action has to be handled faster than 12 hours I would expect a phone call before or immediately after a null route was put in place.
    Agreed on the phone call, i disagree on the response time. If you say: 24 hours from report time to confirmed handling - OK but not 24 hours from report time to initial response like: We are on it! as this can easily be done in < 1 hour if you are a professional hosting company working in this industry and the abuse complaint comes from a key supplier.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    If any of our upstreams null routed us in less than 6 hours without calling first for a spam issue we'd very quickly be looking at alternative locations that were more customer oriented.
    Then again: why not filter outgoing spam, keep a check on it and why host client websites on the same IP you allow them to send mail from? asking for troubles are we? problems that can be avoided should be proactively avoided, plan ahead if possible, it saves a lot of trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    Don't misconstrue this as me condoning spam - we have a zero tolerance policy against spam.
    +1
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 10-18-2013 at 05:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Agreed on the phone call, i disagree in the response time. If you say: 24 hours from report time to confirmed handling - OK but not 24 hours from report time to initial response like: We are on it! as this can easily be done in < 1 hour if you are a professional hosting company working in this industry and the abuse complaint comes from a key supplier.
    First - you need to stop putting words in peoples' posts that are not there to begin with. Nowhere did I say that we waited 24 hours to make an initial response or that we expected it for a serious issue. Minor issues are exactly that - minor.

    We handle abuse issues as quickly as possible - our upstream providers have, in the past, said, "Damn! You guys are fast!" When an abuse issue is brought to our attention action is taken as quickly as possible.

    Do not assume otherwise without facts to back up your assumptions or you just look like a tool.

    The point is that if an upstream provider receives *one* report of *one* spam message - 24 to 48 hours is perfectly acceptable. If the upstream provider receives 10,000 reports over an hour I would absolutely expect them to take action, however, I would expect them to call us as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Then again: why not filter outgoing spam, keep a check on it and why host client websites on the same IP you allow them to send mail from?
    Don't assume we don't already have filtration, policies, procedures, and limits in place to deal with outbound mailing issues. If you wish to know - ask, do not assume.

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    asking for troubles are we?
    No, you're just making assumptions that are not based in fact. Your assumptions do not create reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    problems that can be avoided should be proactively avoided, plan ahead if possible, it saves a lot of trouble.
    Common sense, I would hope.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    First - you need to stop putting words in peoples' posts that are not there to begin with. Nowhere did I say that we waited 24 hours to make an initial response or that we expected it for a serious issue. Minor issues are exactly that - minor.
    [snip]
    The point is that if an upstream provider receives *one* report of *one* spam message - 24 to 48 hours is perfectly acceptable.
    Read over the topic and you will see that the dedicated server provider received multiple reports of a spamrun in progress. They reported it to the hosting provider, waited 5 hours, got no reply and found the spamrun still ongoing and apparently decided to nullroute the IP.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    Don't assume we don't already have filtration, policies, procedures, and limits in place to deal with outbound mailing issues. If you wish to know - ask, do not assume.
    I did not aim the comment at you Mike, but at the OP who does not seem to have all this in place. Filtering and/or detection, correct policies, correct procedures and reasonable limits is exactly what i aim to achieve here from the OP, they were not in place and this was part of the original problem, that's the point i like to make. 'Do not blame the supplier for his actions, look first at what 'you' could have done to prevent the situation' is the message i like to communicate here.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post


    I did not aim the comment at you Mike, but at the OP who does not seem to have all this in place. Filtering and/or detection, correct policies, correct procedures and reasonable limits is exactly what i aim to achieve here from the OP, they were not in place and this was part of the original problem, that's the point i like to make. 'Do not blame the supplier for his actions, look first at what 'you' could have done to prevent the situation' is the message i like to communicate here.
    You are mistaken and looking like a fool as Mike mentioned. Please stop trying to pretend like you know how to run a shared web hosting company.

    Your ideas are great, as ideas, but they aren't practical.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Read over the topic and you will see that the dedicated server provider received multiple reports of a spamrun in progress. They reported it to the hosting provider, waited 5 hours, got no reply and found the spamrun still ongoing and apparently decided to nullroute the IP.
    If the issue was great enough for a null route to be put in place - it was great enough for somebody from the facility/provider to place a call.

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    I did not aim the comment at you Mike
    You quoted me and then made a direct response to what I had said. I do not know how else one would interpret such actions.

    If I quote you [as I just did] and then direct my statements at what you've said it's silly for me to believe you would think I was talking generally and not addressing your specific message.


    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    but at the OP who does not seem to have all this in place.
    There you go making more assumptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Filtering and/or detection, correct policies, correct procedures and reasonable limits is exactly what i aim to achieve here from the OP, they were not in place and this was part of the original problem, that's the point i like to make.
    How about this - you run your business how you want to run it, and they'll run their business how they want to run it.

    If they want you to be a consultant for them, they'll let you know. Don't sit by the phone waiting.

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    'Do not blame the supplier for his actions, look first at what 'you' could have done to prevent the situation' is the message i like to communicate here.
    Nobody is disputing that handling an issue as quickly as possible is the best course of action but this is the real world and things do not always go according to plan.
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    You are mistaken and looking like a fool as Mike mentioned. Please stop trying to pretend like you know how to run a shared web hosting company.
    Your ideas are great, as ideas, but they aren't practical.
    I like to contest this. It looks to me like i know more about running a shared hosting company then you - stop making personal attacks and try to absorb some of the hints and acknowledge that this issue is partly your fault.

    1. You should ensure that your key suppliers have a quick way to communicate with you, you claim average response times to customers of 15 minutes, how hard is it to setup a notification mail for your key suppliers to contact you that is always answered or at least read within 15 minutes?
    Not only for abuse, also for emergency maintenance and other practical issues that could affect your uptime.
    -Advice on policy-
    What would be a practical obstacle for you to implement this?

    2. You can use a transparent outgoing mail filtering system, offered by for example Spamexperts (http://www.spamexperts.com)
    -advice on technology-
    What would be a practical obstacle for you to implement this or a similar technology?

    3. You can host your clients websites on another IPv4 IP then you allow your customers to send Email from.
    -advice on technology-
    What would be a practical obstacle for you to implement this ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    If the issue was great enough for a null route to be put in place - it was great enough for somebody from the facility/provider to place a call.
    Agreed on that one, however: here you go making assumptions, maybe the provider did place a call?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    If they want you to be a consultant for them, they'll let you know. Don't sit by the phone waiting.
    If a business does not want input on an issue, it should not post the issue on a public forum.
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 10-18-2013 at 06:33 PM.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Agreed on that one, however: here you go making assumptions, maybe the provider did place a call?
    I try my best not to make assumptions and I know, for a fact, that the provider did not call.

    You're assuming that I'm making an assumption and, once again, you're wrong. You really should stop making assumptions - you're terrible at it.

    There were *two* complaints forwarded to the OP. 5 hours later a null route was put in place and no phone call was made to the OP. This is non-standard and, imho, unreasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    If a business does not want input on an issue, it should not post the issue on a public forum.
    Input is one thing, trolling is another. You've said your peace - the OP heard it - move on with your life.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    I try my best not to make assumptions and I know, for a fact, that the provider did not call.
    There were *two* complaints forwarded to the OP. 5 hours later a null route was put in place and no phone call was made to the OP. This is non-standard and, imho, unreasonable.
    How can you know this for a fact? if i may ask?
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    How can you know this for a fact? if i may ask?
    Because I told him.

    One SpamCop complaint and another no-name complaint came in at 3:55AM, the exact same time.

    That's the only tickets we received from Instant Dedicated. The tickets had nothing in there about a time limit, they simply just forwarded the complaint. Nothing about being null routed.

    We take abuse issues *very* serious, but we're not going to respond to a spam complaint at 3:55 in the morning, it's simply not going to happen. We've been in the business long enough to know we don't need 24/7 abuse. If Softlayer or any other provider has a urgent abuse issue that could result in null routing us, they will give us a call and we'll get it taken care of.

    Neither one of these were Spamhaus, Sorbs or anything. They were single complaints from single email addresses.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    Because I told him.
    Alright.
    Look, do not get me wrong here - things could have definitely been handled better by your provider. A call before a nullroute, unless the issue threatens the network of the provider (ie DDOS) is nothing more then reasonable, Nullrouting the IP instead of blocking port 25 feels excessive to me as well.
    Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017
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  40. #40
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    I agree that blocking port 25 is probably a better approach. We do that when we have a spam issue. However, not every network is capable of that. Many networks can't even block one IP so they take the server port offline. Expectation management
    Matt Mahvi
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