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  1. #1
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    Europe Peering vs USA Peering Exchanges

    I heard that the peering exchanges in Europe are different than the peering exchanges in the USA, and this model is coming to the USA. What is the difference, and when are they coming?

  2. #2
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    The main difference is ISP density over geographical area. If the entire USA's internet was suddenly concentrated down into the state of Texas, there may be a chance of similarity. With so many ISP's so close to each other in Europe, it's waaaay easier to set up cheap peering.
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    I am not talking about geography, but it has something to do with the economics and the way the peer in europe vs the USA. See this article: http://www.fiercetelecom.com/story/d...ket/2013-09-19

  4. #4
    It doesn't mean things will be cheaper anyway. The peering exchange could charge you to get a port there and then peers might still charge you and make you do paid peering.
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  5. #5
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    There is a growing partnership and traffic exchange between carriers and ISPs in Europe, that's why the whole system of Internet Exchanges is quite developed. It looks like North America is still "underdeveloped" market when it comes to Internet Exchanges. Most IX you can find aren't Independent service providers but part owned by companies like Telehouse, Equinix, CoreSite, etc. I dod not know whether this is good or not for the market.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HostColor View Post
    There is a growing partnership and traffic exchange between carriers and ISPs in Europe, that's why the whole system of Internet Exchanges is quite developed. It looks like North America is still "underdeveloped" market when it comes to Internet Exchanges. Most IX you can find aren't Independent service providers but part owned by companies like Telehouse, Equinix, CoreSite, etc. I dod not know whether this is good or not for the market.
    How is the NA peering market "underdeveloped"?

    The main difference has been that more larger European networks have peered openly, but over the past several years that seems to have been changing. I don't know if there is really much of a difference anymore.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    How is the NA peering market "underdeveloped"?

    The main difference has been that more larger European networks have peered openly, but over the past several years that seems to have been changing. I don't know if there is really much of a difference anymore.
    Hi Karl,

    Let's drop "underdeveloped" if you think that this is not correct. I mean that one can find Internet Exchange or peering point in each and every big is in Europe and in each and every European capital. Most of these are independent traffic exchange points, not owned by data centers or large ISPs. There are many low cost alternatives. This results at lower costs of the bandwidth in Europe.
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  8. #8
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    European networks peer more with eachother then North American networks, this does lead to significant quality and price difference between EU and North America.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...points_by_size

    Bandwidth in Europe is significantly cheaper then Bandwidth in North America or anywhere else for that matter, peering is better organized, easier and cheaper to establish, long distance transport is cheaper & easier to setup even compared to similar distance routes in North America and Metro fiber is cheaper in European cities then North American cities.
    The route server on the AMS-IX alone gives you instant peering to 486 networks ! there are many networks of the 613 peers on the AMS-IX that are willing to peer settlement free with a Content network, if you can send them a reasonable amount of traffic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastServ View Post
    The main difference is ISP density over geographical area. If the entire USA's internet was suddenly concentrated down into the state of Texas, there may be a chance of similarity. With so many ISP's so close to each other in Europe, it's waaaay easier to set up cheap peering.
    It is not just density, in the USA you have excellent ISP density in Virginia.

    European ISPs setup peering relationships as it results in higher quality traffic, less congestion, more visibility, higher uptime, direct and shorter routes, lower latency. The ISPs act and acknowledge the internet community. In the US, there is not much of a community. Traditional peering, for example with Equinix, is the opposite of peering in Europe. Equinix has no transparant pricing plan, they grossly overcharge for cross connects, they do not disclose peering partners and traffic levels, they try as hard as possible to keep get as much revenue as possible from internet peering. In contrast, peering in London, Amsterdam or Frankfurt is open: price plans are listed on the websites and every member pays the exact same fees per port, the bandwidth and peering partners are listed on the site, peering policies and route servers are listed on the website and there is a real community with a mutual goal.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HostColor View Post
    Hi Karl,

    Let's drop "underdeveloped" if you think that this is not correct. I mean that one can find Internet Exchange or peering point in each and every big is in Europe and in each and every European capital. Most of these are independent traffic exchange points, not owned by data centers or large ISPs. There are many low cost alternatives. This results at lower costs of the bandwidth in Europe.
    All major and many secondary markets in the US also have exchanges. Sure, the ownership is different, but I don't see what that has to do with the level of "development" it is simply a different method.

    Quote Originally Posted by interactive3d View Post
    European ISPs setup peering relationships as it results in higher quality traffic, less congestion, more visibility, higher uptime, direct and shorter routes, lower latency. The ISPs act and acknowledge the internet community. In the US, there is not much of a community. Traditional peering, for example with Equinix, is the opposite of peering in Europe. Equinix has no transparant pricing plan, they grossly overcharge for cross connects, they do not disclose peering partners and traffic levels, they try as hard as possible to keep get as much revenue as possible from internet peering. In contrast, peering in London, Amsterdam or Frankfurt is open: price plans are listed on the websites and every member pays the exact same fees per port, the bandwidth and peering partners are listed on the site, peering policies and route servers are listed on the website and there is a real community with a mutual goal.
    Equinix's pricing is pretty standard, just ask them, then when you're a member you get access to full lists of participants, volume information, etc. I don't really see how needing to ask for information and it being provided freely is really a core difference. I will agree though that the larger carriers in the US have historically cared primarily about their bottom line, not network performance or the community as a whole, and have thus not been very open to peering. The thing is, we've been seeing more and more European carriers develop more restrictive peering policies as well, which is part of why we had pulled out of AMSIX and LINX. Sure, Europe is still a bit better in that regard, and if you have legacy peering agreements it is probably much better for you, but I don't see there being a substantial difference long term with the way things seem to be going.

    Then, the only real difference is who owns the exchanges, and since Equinix has realized they need to be competitive, their pricing is right in line with other major exchanges, such as AMSIX and LINX, I don't really see much of a difference there.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    Equinix's pricing is pretty standard, just ask them, then when you're a member you get access to full lists of participants, volume information, etc.
    I don't find reasonable to pay Equinix for a bandwidth product. This is not their business and I don;t think they are good at that. On top of this they charge unreasonably high fees for cross-connects and remote hands. However this is just an opinion, not a "statement"!
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    A pure L2 Internet Exchange is non-profitable.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by HostColor View Post
    I don't find reasonable to pay Equinix for a bandwidth product. This is not their business and I don;t think they are good at that. On top of this they charge unreasonably high fees for cross-connects and remote hands. However this is just an opinion, not a "statement"!
    Equinix controls more peering than anyone else in the world, thus I don't know how that isn't their business, that was one of the main reasons they had purchased Switch and Data. What makes you say they aren't good at it? I've really had no issues with Equinix exchanges.

    Their remote hands and cross connect fees haven't really been much higher than any of their competitors. Are they high, yes, are they substantially higher than their key competition? No, not really.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    Equinix controls more peering than anyone else in the world, thus I don't know how that isn't their business, that was one of the main reasons they had purchased Switch and Data. What makes you say they aren't good at it? I've really had no issues with Equinix exchanges.

    Their remote hands and cross connect fees haven't really been much higher than any of their competitors. Are they high, yes, are they substantially higher than their key competition? No, not really.
    OK Karl. It is obviously not me who'd be making judgements on someone else's business I follow their stocks and it looks they are doing pretty good.

    I would prefer to use other Internet exchanges though. How could Equinix enter into any of the competitor's data centers and to bring their own exchange there. It is obviously not possible! At the same time you can get AMS-IX in many data centers and many parts of the world. This is because they do not try to compete on many markets, they do IX and they are very good at this! If you like companies that aggressively try to enter any market niche, they could, that's fine. I just don't like this approach to business.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by HostColor View Post
    OK Karl. It is obviously not me who'd be making judgements on someone else's business I follow their stocks and it looks they are doing pretty good.

    I would prefer to use other Internet exchanges though. How could Equinix enter into any of the competitor's data centers and to bring their own exchange there. It is obviously not possible! At the same time you can get AMS-IX in many data centers and many parts of the world. This is because they do not try to compete on many markets, they do IX and they are very good at this! If you like companies that aggressively try to enter any market niche, they could, that's fine. I just don't like this approach to business.
    The vast majority of exchanges are not across multiple facilities and that is the case in the US and Europe. Do some European exchanges go across multiple sites, yes, do some US exchanges, yes. NYIIX is run by Telehouse, yet still exists in "competing" facilities of TelX and CoreSite.

    In addition, Equinix's model gives them the advantage of connecting multiple sites by default in many cases, as their own NY exchange is across 5 facilities, their Silicon Valley Exchange is across 4 sites, etc. You then also have the CoreSite California Exchange that is across 5 sites in two markets. Is it a different model, yes, is it necessarily worse, I don't see that.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    You then also have the CoreSite California Exchange that is across 5 sites in two markets. Is it a different model, yes, is it necessarily worse, I don't see that.
    Which is also a lot cheaper than Equinix

  17. #17
    How much for Europe Equinix peering?

  18. #18
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    have anyone look at the open-ix project ?

    http://open-ix.org/OIX-Framework-Latest.pdf

    if this works, equinix have to drop their IX price significantly to stay in the market.
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