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  1. #1

    WiredTree Review - STAY AWAY - the will extort money and take down your sites.

    Let me start this off by saying that I had my first server with WiredTree 5 years ago. Over the course of 5 years, I paid them nearly $30,000 USD in server fees.

    In the last few years, WiredTree's service greatly declined. Their tech support was becoming very inconsistent (some good techs, some really bad ones who mess up your site when you open a ticket).

    Not only that, but they also killed the traffic of one my high traffic sites when they couldn't stop a DDOS attack on their servers. The attach lasted for weeks and my website never recovered after it was over.

    As a result of the foregoing, I decided to move my websites away from WiredTree. At the moment I had 2 servers with them. I cancelled one of them and asked for a refund. WiredTree denied the refund (the server was prepaid for 1 year) and forced me to have an account credit, which they "conveniently" automatically applied to my other server. So I said okay, I will keep the other server while the credit covers the fees.

    When I received a bill for the server, it was fully paid for with the credit so no action was required on my part.

    1 year later, Calvin, their billing rep tells me he made a mistake and didn't bill my server properly. As a result, he says, I owe WiredTree an additional $516.20.

    As you can imagine, I was appalled. How can any hosting company demand more than half a thousand dollars after a year of the prior bill? They misled me into thinking that my server was fully paid for, which was the sole reason why I kept the server. Then they extort money out of money.

    This was yesterday. I told Calvin I am not going to pay this bill as this is deceptive business practices. This morning I find out my server is down, and all of the sites on it are down as of yesterday. Gone, without ability to access or migrate them to another server. They never warned me or gave me a chance to transfer the websites after the whole extortion fiasco.

    So if you want your hosting company to extort money out of you an indefinite amount of time after they bill you, then by all means host with WiredTree.

    If you want your hosting company to kill your websites by taking down your server and websites without ANY warning to you, then go ahead and host with WiredTree.

    If you care about your websites and want stable hosting with good uptime and tech support, then host somewhere else.

    I'll likely be suing WiredTree so I'll let you guys know how this goes.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    So they made a mistake with the billing setup and decided to bill you for the mistake?

    Maybe try to bring this with the owner and see if he can solve it before doing something else?
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  3. #3
    Yes - exactly. My server is supposed to lapse in 6 days from now. Yesterday they tried to bill me more than $500 for the mistake they made and took my server and sites down as a way to extort this money out of me. I have no way to access the server now or my websites, and they are not resolving.

    To reiterate, the only reason I kept my server with them for another year was because I was under the impression my account credit of over $2000 covered it, which it did 1 year ago. Not only did they force me to use the $2000 which they didn't want to refund, now they are trying to extort more money out of me by taking my server and sites down.

    I tried to reason with Calvin, their billing rep, but he didn't want to hear it. He just took my server and sites down WITHOUT TELLING ME. I found out today when I saw my sites were all down.
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Chicago
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyj52 View Post
    I tried to reason with Calvin, their billing rep, but he didn't want to hear it.
    Last year when you had cancelled out the unneeded dedicated server, you had received a very large credit of approximately $2000 as you mentioned here. When you moved into that smaller server, you expected that credit to be applied and expected to pay annually for the new service.

    Even though you expected to pay the full annual amount minus the credit, our Billing team did make a mistake and charged you 10x less than what was owed. They essentially charged you single month instead of the annual amount. As a result, the existing credit of around $2000 stayed in your account for the past year un-touched and still available.

    So yesterday you decided to downgrade into a VPS at which point Calvin noticed your $2000 credit and also that it was never applied. Calvin made the correction, applied the leftover credit which left your balance at $516.20. Not only was he willing to work with you on the amount owed, he offered to split it up over many months in order to make the situation easier for you. You were unwilling to work with us on the issue. You told our Billing department you would be leaving our company and not paying the amount owed. Under this threat and your unwillingness to work with us, we had to take action by suspending your service.

    We are only asking you to pay for what you expected to pay for and what you signed up for when you ordered your server. You expected to pay an annual fee and agreed to that fee. You did not lose any credit you were due at any point in the process. This is not extortion. You are simply upset that you need to pay what you agreed to and you were unwilling to work with us on it.
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  5. #5
    What a false way to put it, James. To everyone reading this thread, let me explain in detail:

    Point A in time: I cancel 1 of 2 servers at WiredTree, expecting to receive a refund (I have received refunds from WiredTree before). They deny the refund and force me to keep the credit, applying it to a server I no longer need. At this time, I keep the server under the understanding that the credit I have would cover the fees.

    Point B in time: I get an invoice from WiredTree on the server that says "fully paid" on it. Since my server was on a yearly payment plan, I keep the server I do not need for the next 1 year under the belief it is fully paid. I set a reminder on my calendar 1 year from that point to move the websites before the renewal.

    Point C in time - 1 year later: I do not remember how much credit I have left and since I don't need a dedicated server I email WiredTree to downgrade my dedicated server to a VPS. At this point in time, WiredTree notifies me that not only do I not have credit, but they made some mistake in billing and want an additional $500+ from me. They offer to let me pay it in installments. They immediately disable my server and websites when I tell them I don't owe them anything because the only reason I kept the server this long was because they told me it was fully paid for.

    Current status: server access and website access is disabled. Websites are all down and I am losing money every hour.

    To sum up, you tried to extort money out of me for misrepresentation YOU made. I did not need your server and your misrepresentation was the only reason I kept the server for another year because I received a "fully paid" invoice. Your actions are fraudulent.

    So anyone considering hosting with WiredTree...think again. You never know how they will defraud you or when they will extort more money out of you and hold your websites hostage. Stay away people. There are much better hosting companies out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by WiredTree James View Post
    Last year when you had cancelled out the unneeded dedicated server, you had received a very large credit of approximately $2000 as you mentioned here. When you moved into that smaller server, you expected that credit to be applied and expected to pay annually for the new service.

    Even though you expected to pay the full annual amount minus the credit, our Billing team did make a mistake and charged you 10x less than what was owed. They essentially charged you single month instead of the annual amount. As a result, the existing credit of around $2000 stayed in your account for the past year un-touched and still available.

    So yesterday you decided to downgrade into a VPS at which point Calvin noticed your $2000 credit and also that it was never applied. Calvin made the correction, applied the leftover credit which left your balance at $516.20. Not only was he willing to work with you on the amount owed, he offered to split it up over many months in order to make the situation easier for you. You were unwilling to work with us on the issue. You told our Billing department you would be leaving our company and not paying the amount owed. Under this threat and your unwillingness to work with us, we had to take action by suspending your service.

    We are only asking you to pay for what you expected to pay for and what you signed up for when you ordered your server. You expected to pay an annual fee and agreed to that fee. You did not lose any credit you were due at any point in the process. This is not extortion. You are simply upset that you need to pay what you agreed to and you were unwilling to work with us on it.
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    19,196
    Tony,

    So are you saying that you do not believe that you owe the money for the service you used?

    I understand your points - but they do not change the fact that you used a service that cost money and not all of that money was paid.

    The whole, "Give me what I want or I'll tell everybody everywhere how terrible you are," attitude isn't likely to get you very far - especially with an established and reputable provider.

    It would only be extortion if they intentionally deceived you and they were trying to extort more money out of you that you did not already owe.

    Nobody is disputing they made a mistake - they even said it themselves.

    Now should you have to pay the money you would have originally had to have paid due to their mistake? That's between you and them but it doesn't seem like they're willing to budge.

    I get the points you're making - but what is it really that you're trying to say? Are you saying that because they made a mistake they should lose $500? Have you ever made a mistake?

    I'm just trying to wrap my head around this.
      2 Not allowed!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    2,637
    Somehow I have to agree with Michael, they are just running a legal business and not trying to extort you in any way. You have used the services, yes it's their mistake - but you have used their service and now its time for you to pay them or they have the rights to prevent server access. We humans make mistake.
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  8. #8
    Hi Mike,

    Please read my replies carefully. The only reason I kept that server was because they told me it was fully paid for with account credit. I did not need nor want a dedicated server with them.

    If they told me I owe $1 on the server, I would have moved my websites 1 year ago.

    So they first forced me to keep the server by denying refund for another server I cancelled and putting that money into the remaining server, then telling me the remaining server was fully paid for with the credit, and then trying to extort $500+ from me for a mistake they made 1 year ago. Now you see the progression?
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Faris Aziz View Post
    Somehow I have to agree with Michael, they are just running a legal business and not trying to extort you in any way. You have used the services, yes it's their mistake - but you have used their service and now its time for you to pay them or they have the rights to prevent server access. We humans make mistake.
    Hi Faris,

    You also did not read the thread carefully. I did not want or need their server and they misled me into believing it was fully paid for, for 1 year, and then tried to charge me more money for it retroactively.

    I would have cancelled the server and moved to VPS 1 year ago had I known the server was not fully paid for.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    404
    Quote Originally Posted by tonyj52 View Post
    Hi Faris, You also did not read the thread carefully. I did not want or need their server and they misled me into believing it was fully paid for, for 1 year, and then tried to charge me more money for it retroactively.
    In ticket TCB-700821 from last year Calvin told you that your credit would be applied to your next invoice. The invoice was 10x less than it should have been but the credit was used to cover it. The remaining credit was then kept on your account for future invoices. The amount of the invoice was clearly not what you would have expected for an annual cost on that plan (over 10x less). This was a mistake that only deferred what you owe. It does not change what you agreed to pay for on an annual plan or the services you used.

    We have been willing to work with you on this issue but you have not been receptive. You have so far threatened legal action, claimed extortion and refused to pay or talk to us any further. This is why your server is offline. Have you tried calling us to talk to us about the issue?
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  11. #11
    If it was "clearly" not the amount on the annual plan, why did Calvin make the error? You are blaming ME for his error?

    Don't you understand me when I say I would have CANCELED your server 1 year ago if you told me I would have needed to pay anything out of my pocket? I did not need your server.

    Let me give you an analogy:

    There are 2 farmers. Farmer A owes $2000 to farmer B. Farmer B says to A, "take my cow as a full repayment of my debt to you". Farmer A agrees. 1 year later, farmer B goes to A and says "you know I made a mistake in the value of my cow, so you owe me $516 now". Now do you get what you did to me?

    Quote Originally Posted by WiredTree James View Post
    In ticket TCB-700821 from last year Calvin told you that your credit would be applied to your next invoice. The invoice was 10x less than it should have been but the credit was used to cover it. The remaining credit was then kept on your account for future invoices. The amount of the invoice was clearly not what you would have expected for an annual cost on that plan (over 10x less). This was a mistake that only deferred what you owe. It does not change what you agreed to pay for on an annual plan or the services you used.

    We have been willing to work with you on this issue but you have not been receptive. You have so far threatened legal action, claimed extortion and refused to pay or talk to us any further. This is why your server is offline. Have you tried calling us to talk to us about the issue?
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by WiredTree James View Post
    ...You have so far threatened legal action, claimed extortion and refused to pay or talk to us any further. This is why your server is offline...
    This is NOT why my server is offline. Calvin took my server offline yesterday immediately after I told him I don't owe you the $516 you asked for. At that point I did not threaten any legal action or refuse to talk to you or claim extortion.
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyj52 View Post
    If it was "clearly" not the amount on the annual plan, why did Calvin make the error? You are blaming ME for his error?
    I do not see any blame being levied. They made a mistake - they admitted to it - but just because they made a mistake does not mean that they cannot collect on the debt as far as I understand the law.

    If they take you to court - do you think the judge is going to go, "Oh, they made a mistake - sucks to be them - I'm dismissing this case."?

    More than likely they would get a judgement against you and then you'd have a court of law telling you to pay it as well.

    All of that said - I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by tonyj52 View Post
    Don't you understand me when I say I would have CANCELED your server 1 year ago if you told me I would have needed to pay anything out of my pocket? I did not need your server.
    We all understand what you're saying - but it doesn't change the fact that you used more services than your credit would cover. We all know that WiredTree made a mistake - you can quit reiterating that [we already know].

    No matter how many analogies you make - the fact of the matter is you used more than you've paid for regardless of whether it was intentional or not. Do you dispute this?
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  14. #14
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    If it's taken them like 12 months to notice this billing error it seems they simply don't care and no verification by a billing manager was ever made hence 12 months down the line your experiencing this issue.
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  15. #15
    The problem, Mike, is that you do not know or understand the law. You should at least Google "fraudulent misrepresentation" and "negligent misrepresentation".

    I undeniably dispute that I used more than what my credit paid for because they FORCED ME to keep a server with them by denying a refund and giving credit instead. Then, WiredTree falsely told me my remaining server was fully paid for when it wasn't. I materially relied on their misrepresentation and kept the server for 1 additional year when I did not need it. Then, 1 year later they tried to get more money out of me through extortion by disabling access to my server and taking my websites down within an hour of generating the new invoice.

    For your record, I am a licensed attorney so there isn't any attorney I need to call - and if I sue them, it'll be for much more than $516. They stole multiple websites from me worth tens of thousands of dollars.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyj52 View Post
    For your record, I am a licensed attorney so there isn't any attorney I need to call
    Interesting... Your thread here runs contrary to all legal advice I've ever been given.

    Best of luck.
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  17. #17
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyj52 View Post

    For your record, I am a licensed attorney so there isn't any attorney I need to call - and if I sue them, it'll be for much more than $516. They stole multiple websites from me worth tens of thousands of dollars.
    If I got a dollar everytime I heard 'I'm going to sue you', I wouldn't be in web hosting anymore, I'd be living on the ocean with my beach house, 2 dogs and a big cigar in my mouth.

    Carry on, it's a slow day, I need some form of entertainment.
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  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyj52 View Post
    For your record, I am a licensed attorney so there isn't any attorney I need to call - and if I sue them, it'll be for much more than $516.
    We didn't steal anything from you or force you to buy a server. Our terms of service dictate a no-refund policy so we provided you with a credit. You are making serious and false claims here.

    If you tell us that you are unwilling to work with us on the issue, refuse to pay and notify us that you are going to leave us without paying money you owe, we do reserve the right to turn off your server.

    Additionally, you have complicated the issue by claiming extortion multiple times and threatening legal action twice.
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  19. #19
    You forced me to keep a server I did not need by giving me credit instead of refund. Then you misled me into thinking the server was fully paid for and try to extort money out of me 1 year later.

    Then, you quickly turned off the server to hold my websites hostage.

    Everything I have stated is 100% accurate.

    You've got your hands very dirty now, James.
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  20. #20
    Join Date
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    I've been with WiredTree for over a year and have not had any problems, James is very helpful so I'm guessing you're leaving something out or didn't read their ToS before buying. WiredTree is a great company, simple as that.
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  21. #21
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyj52 View Post
    You forced me to keep a server I did not need by giving me credit instead of refund. Then you misled me into thinking the server was fully paid for and try to extort money out of me 1 year later.

    Then, you quickly turned off the server to hold my websites hostage.

    Everything I have stated is 100% accurate.

    You've got your hands very dirty now, James.
    A real lawyer wouldn't talk about legal matters on a public forum, they would file a case with the court.



    Where did you get your law degree? http://www.buyrealdegree.com/ ?
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  22. #22
    Join Date
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    A Google search for "tonyj52" turns up a few interesting results.

    Either they are not who they claim to be - or they share an internet handle with somebody that isn't an attorney.

    It seems tonyj52 has a hard time understanding contracts, especially ones that say "no refunds." ... http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=960425
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    A Google search for "tonyj52" turns up a few interesting results.

    Either they are not who they claim to be - or they share an internet handle with somebody that isn't an attorney.

    It seems tonyj52 has a hard time understanding contracts, especially ones that say "no refunds." ... http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=960425
    Indeed, including some adult related material too.

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  24. #24
    Join Date
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    It seems a bit wishy washy here, OK they made a mistake, everyone makes them else we wouldn't be human at all. But if you owe them money you should pay up. Otherwise it will look bad on you...

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    A Google search for "tonyj52" turns up a few interesting results.

    Either they are not who they claim to be - or they share an internet handle with somebody that isn't an attorney.

    It seems tonyj52 has a hard time understanding contracts, especially ones that say "no refunds." ... http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=960425
    WiredTree and SingleHop I wonder who is next...
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    A Google search for "tonyj52" turns up a few interesting results.

    Either they are not who they claim to be - or they share an internet handle with somebody that isn't an attorney.

    It seems tonyj52 has a hard time understanding contracts, especially ones that say "no refunds." ... http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=960425
    A google search for "tonyj52" is completely irrelevant to the discussion in this thread. Do you honestly think an Internet handle is going to be unique among billions of people on the Internet?
      0 Not allowed!

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