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  1. #1
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    Web design company or web designer who knows what he is doing?

    Please recommend a good web designer or design company who does not suck, Does not use read made templates and over charge . A designer who does not suck
    Treat your password like your toothbrush. Don't let anybody else use it, and get a new one every six months.Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium. Imperet illi Deus, supplices deprecamur: tuque, Princeps militiae coelestis, Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos, qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo, divina virtute, in infernum detrude. Amen

  2. #2
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    Take a look at the web design section and search for reviews of designers here on Web Hosting Talk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm91 View Post
    Please recommend a good web designer or design company who does not suck, Does not use read made templates and over charge . A designer who does not suck
    www.Elance.com... hire someone with high ratings... it is a process but it works... use escrow, never pay upfront.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hekwu View Post
    www.Elance.com... hire someone with high ratings... it is a process but it works... use escrow, never pay upfront.
    http://blog.launchastartup.com/odesk-vs-elance/

    Yishan Wong, CEO of Reddit answers:
    You shouldn’t do this; it will probably result in failure.
    I have a friend who is a designer (so, closer to technology and implementation than a business guy; about as close as you can be without being outright technical yourself), and he was hiring developers via eLance. Even with consultation from friends of his (e.g. me) who were real engineers, it was extremely difficult to find decent engineers who could do the things he needed, deliver reliably, and iterate according to ongoing testing/customer feedback. The end product was merely “okay” – kind of slow, with little glitches here and there.
    If you have total technical ignorance and no local (friend) resources to help you, hiring from eLance or oDesk is almost impossible to do correctly. I would recommend trying another route.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hekwu View Post
    never pay upfront.
    Way to be disrespectful to developers. Design projects take time, what, you think they don't deserve to get paid for the work they do? Sure, you don't want to pay everything up front, but , when you're talking something that can take weeks, months, you need to actually have some consideration for the developer


    Quote Originally Posted by Biju View Post
    If you have total technical ignorance and no local (friend) resources to help you, hiring from eLance or oDesk is almost impossible to do correctly. I would recommend trying another route.
    This isn't necessarily the fault of the program (elance, freelancer, odesk, etc), this is typically always the fault of the employer. Having worked with these sites in the past (and currently), the employer typically has no clue what they're doing. They want everything done for nothing, and complain when it doesn't actually work right... For example:

    I picked up a client last month that has had 3-4 other devs working through their site. Sloppy coding, calls to mysql_connect (which is on it's way out), pdo->mysql and other mysql iterations. Unescaped variables, just uggh... I've spent the past month trying to get it all standardized, future proofed, etc. Client complains at how much it's costing, considering what they've paid already. Well, this is the exact problem. They hired someone (multiple someone's) to do it cheap, and they now have major issues.

    If you want something done right, pay to get it done right the first time. Yes, you'll have to pay a bit more (depending on the project), but you'll have a well done project, not a sloppy, smelly turd.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biju View Post
    http://blog.launchastartup.com/odesk-vs-elance/

    Yishan Wong, CEO of Reddit answers:
    You shouldn’t do this; it will probably result in failure.
    I have a friend who is a designer (so, closer to technology and implementation than a business guy; about as close as you can be without being outright technical yourself), and he was hiring developers via eLance. Even with consultation from friends of his (e.g. me) who were real engineers, it was extremely difficult to find decent engineers who could do the things he needed, deliver reliably, and iterate according to ongoing testing/customer feedback. The end product was merely “okay” – kind of slow, with little glitches here and there.
    If you have total technical ignorance and no local (friend) resources to help you, hiring from eLance or oDesk is almost impossible to do correctly. I would recommend trying another route.
    It really depends on the job and if the person knows exactly what they want... you have to spell out every single detail and understand every function. But with a website, I've found things are hit and miss.

    Far as payment, I've been on Elance for years (at least 2003) and never had trouble when not paying upfront... when I paid new people upfront I sometimes had failure... guess it depends on your experience.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post
    Way to be disrespectful to developers. Design projects take time, what, you think they don't deserve to get paid for the work they do? Sure, you don't want to pay everything up front, but , when you're talking something that can take weeks, months, you need to actually have some consideration for the developer.
    I'm a developer so I understand your position...

    But I think it is disingenuous to state that I don't think they deserve to get paid for their work. Listen, Elance is a two way street... they take jobs based on a description... if you state you don't pay upfront, then they will be okay with it or not take the job. Simple.

    It is not like I'm hiring someone and telling them they will get paid upfront and then NOT paying them... so calm down. LOL... They accept the terms and we move forward.

    I've 100% found that people/teams that don't take pay upfront are around longer and build better products.

    But I would never tell a new person on elance to go into a long project... then you have to pay some upfront.

    I do pay those that I have worked with for a long time upfront...

    The downside of not paying upfront is that your project may take longer to develop since the dev will have other jobs... but that is why I like to hire teams/company vs. a single developer.

    But we all have our own ways of doing things... my way has worked for me.
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  8. #8
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    Last time I hired an Indian developer to create my site he filled it up with hidden porn links
    Treat your password like your toothbrush. Don't let anybody else use it, and get a new one every six months.Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium. Imperet illi Deus, supplices deprecamur: tuque, Princeps militiae coelestis, Satanam aliosque spiritus malignos, qui ad perditionem animarum pervagantur in mundo, divina virtute, in infernum detrude. Amen

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    Taking nothing up-front gives the customer complete control to introduce feature creep (and they all do to some degree)... In many instances its the client that doesnt know what they want, at a minimum you should lock the client down to 50%, new clients 75% plus.

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    Web design company or web designer who knows what he is doing?

    Quote Originally Posted by MattF View Post
    Taking nothing up-front gives the customer complete control to introduce feature creep (and they all do to some degree)... In many instances its the client that doesnt know what they want, at a minimum you should lock the client down to 50%, new clients 75% plus.
    Exactly! That and the dev is assured the client will actually pay!
    Typically, I charge 35 - 50% up front, depending on the size of the project. If the client has a problem paying this, then that's on them. I don't waste my clients time and I expect the same respect.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by hekwu View Post
    It really depends on the job and if the person knows exactly what they want... you have to spell out every single detail and understand every function. But with a website, I've found things are hit and miss.

    Far as payment, I've been on Elance for years (at least 2003) and never had trouble when not paying upfront... when I paid new people upfront I sometimes had failure... guess it depends on your experience.
    Agree its more of experience, some good and bad. But if the person is non-technical, its going to tough for either ends.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post
    Way to be disrespectful to developers. Design projects take time, what, you think they don't deserve to get paid for the work they do? Sure, you don't want to pay everything up front, but , when you're talking something that can take weeks, months, you need to actually have some consideration for the developer
    With all due respect twhiting9275, @hekwu did not say don't pay:

    Quote Originally Posted by hekwu View Post
    www.Elance.com...never pay upfront.
    A laborer is worthy of his hire.

    You pay in installments. That puts food on the table of the developer as they work for (weeks, months) and the customer sees progress for their money paid. Win:Win situation!

    My first choice would be to look at the advertiser's section and some of the outstanding web designers on WHT. They have done some great web hosting sites.

    Quote Originally Posted by psalm91 View Post
    ...Does not use read made templates and over charge . A designer who does not suck
    If you do not want template design then you may have to be prepared to pay more to the designer for a complete one-off, unique design, which they will agree in writing not to reuse.

    Other suggested labor hire web sites. This all depends on your level of technical expertise and if you know what you want, then use escrow service. That can work.
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  13. #13
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    There's a lot of talk about hiring developers from these freelancer sites. I agree with Mr. Wong: it's a process where you're probably going to have some issues. However, the original question was about designers.

    If we're talking about website design, the deliverable you get is not the end product. You'll get a Photoshop file or something like that, and create the site yourself. There should be no issue with poor code or porn links. It's enough if the design pleases your eyes and satisfies the other stakeholders. You might not get a great masterpiece, but if you're "shopping" on Elance that's not what you're looking for.

    In my opinion coding is very different from all the other trades. I'm not saying that design is somehow "inferior" - just that the end result is easier to understand.

  14. #14
    If you want to ultimately be comfortable with hiring a skilled designer, you have to do your research on the guy.

    Make sure they have a history aside from just a portfolio. Do a search for their name / business name in Google. Talk with them via email or over the phone to get a feel for them.

    <<snipped>>
    Last edited by bear; 09-29-2013 at 05:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post
    This isn't necessarily the fault of the program (elance, freelancer, odesk, etc), this is typically always the fault of the employer. Having worked with these sites in the past (and currently), the employer typically has no clue what they're doing. They want everything done for nothing, and complain when it doesn't actually work right...
    The "fault" of the employer? You do realize they hired you to address the exact challenges you described above...don't you?

    • If they did have a clue...You wouldn't be hired.
    • They want everything done for nothing? You failed to communicate value in your services.
    • Complain when it doesn't "actually work right"? You failed to either understand exactly what they wanted or educate them on what they were actually going to get.


    Just a thought....

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnikki View Post
    The "fault" of the employer? You do realize they hired you to address the exact challenges you described above...don't you?
    Who said anything about me or my services? You know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about

    Quote Originally Posted by jimnikki View Post
    [*]They want everything done for nothing? You failed to communicate value in your services.
    Again, NOTHING to do with me at all. The problem though is that most people (the OP included) want everything for nothing, they want everyone to work for crap wages.. It's not necessarily about 'communicating value', it's about the customer being ignorant and choosing the cheapest provider, despite what has been 'communicated'. No amount of 'communicated value' can convince the average person that they need to actually pay realistic wages for something, when they can get it for 10% of realistic wages. They simply have to go through the learning process over and over again, unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimnikki View Post
    [*]Complain when it doesn't "actually work right"? You failed to either understand exactly what they wanted or educate them on what they were actually going to get.
    Again, not me. I've taken over countless projects from individuals who have been through the first point multiple times, have their website pretty much a mess, all because they want to be cheap, then complain that their site doesn't work right. Again, NOT because of me, or anyone associated with me, but because of the idiots before.

    Before you go around making assumptions about people, you had better know what you're talking about. Clearly, you don't.
    Last edited by whmcsguru; 09-29-2013 at 11:52 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by twhiting9275 View Post
    Who said anything about me or my services? You know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about
    You need to understand that when you qualify your opinion with your personal experience - you are the one who "said anything about me or my services".

    "...Having worked with these sites in the past (and currently), the employer typically has no clue what they're doing. They want everything done for nothing, and complain when it doesn't actually work right... For example:

    I picked up a client last month..."

    Clearly.

  18. #18
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    btw....

    "I've spent the past month trying to get it all standardized, future proofed, etc. Client complains at how much it's costing, considering what they've paid already. Well, this is the exact problem. They hired someone (multiple someone's) to do it cheap, and they now have major issues."

    Based on your description of the project you are working on that you used for your example...you absolutely did not communicate effectively with the client or failed to effectively evaluate what starting point they were at...IMO. Then again, if you communicate just as well with clients as you've done in your last post, I'm not surprised.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by psalm91 View Post
    Please recommend a good web designer or design company who does not suck, Does not use read made templates and over charge . A designer who does not suck
    I recommend getting in touch with Dan Strogiy ( http://danstrogiy.com/ ). He's an excellent designer with a great eye for aesthetics. All of his work is original--no templates.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimnikki View Post
    Based on your description of the project you are working on that you used for your example...you absolutely did not communicate effectively with the client or failed to effectively evaluate what starting point they were at...IMO. Then again, if you communicate just as well with clients as you've done in your last post, I'm not surprised.
    I'm not going to comment on the vague story of something business related. I've got no idea where your comments are coming from, seeing how non-descriptive the original post was.

    I've found that any amount of "communicating effectively" wont change certain things. Especially if the "things" are tied to client's internal processes or budgets. You should always do your best to evaluate everything involved, but even that doesn't always unearth everything that's lurking beneath the surface.

    On top of that, my projects often involve partners with whom I'm doing other and potentially more profitable projects that may or may not have the same clients. I can't leave any of the stakeholders hanging, even if their current project wasn't done "properly" from the beginning.
    Last edited by nettiapina; 09-30-2013 at 01:16 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by nettiapina View Post
    I've found that any amount of "communicating effectively" wont change certain things. Especially if the "things" are tied to client's internal processes or budgets.
    I understand what you're saying...but change & overcome are two different things. Changing a mind is nearly impossible, overcoming objections is not - and that's what those "things" you describe actually represent...no different than in any other service industry. If you're running into the issue more often than not, I'd examine your pre-qualification process when identifying potential employers/clients.

    You should always do your best to evaluate everything involved, but even that doesn't always unearth everything that's lurking beneath the surface.
    That's the thing...You will never, ever, ever, ever unearth everything lurking beneath the surface...and that's where that effective communication comes in...again. You had to do it to get the first check, you have to do it to get the second, third, fourth and so on.

    Let's say you've been screwed in the past getting your auto repaired....Anything the mechanic says is a problem with the car outside of what I (the client) identified as the problem (not knowing s* about cars) when I brought it in is going to be perceived as that mechanic trying to screw me over (or trying to) - unless he can effectively communicate or demonstrate the why...and even then I won't fully trust that mechanic until I'm behind the wheel & see it for myself.

    Of course I'm going to complain about it/the additional time/$...who wouldn't? However, if you think that mechanic isn't fully aware of what my objections are going to be and has not prepared effective responses, you're wrong...neither my budget nor internal though process planned on anything more than repair X...but the benefit pitched by the mechanic may indeed "change" both beliefs.

    IMO of course.

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