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09-10-2013, 09:30 PM #51Retired Moderator
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If our job is to educate the consumer then this is what we should do. The problem with unlimited offers isn't the lack of fixed limits on space and transfer but the lack of information on what real limits will be applied.
But this isn't only relevant to unlimited offers - fixed-limit plans are increasingly using CloudLinux and the like and are subject to all the same "alternative" restrictions (memory, processes, database connections or whatever). Some providers are open about these, others not so much. So just as unlimited providers should be required to state these limits, so should all advertisers.
The reality is that unlimited offers from kiddy hosts are already creeping into the ad forums here as "99999GB", or "9999GB" (or even something like 500GB space - on a cheap shared plan you can be fairly sure a small host won't be willing to provide that either). I don't like unlimited offers - I'd always advise people to choose the smallest plan that meets their needs - but ignoring their existence and allowing unrealistic numbers isn't the best way forward for WHT or our audience. Brave move Dennis.Chris
"Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them." - Laurence J. Peter3
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09-10-2013, 09:44 PM #52Temporarily Suspended
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To solve the issue many of us have with the unlimited wording why not simply create another sub-forum called Unlimited Hosting Offers? This way WHT can keep the rules for the forums and sub forums in place regarding the usage of unlimited and then the "limited" and "unlimited" ads are separated. This would probably also provide some clarity to the general public that browses the offers section of WHT.
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09-10-2013, 09:47 PM #53Web Hosting Master
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09-10-2013, 09:52 PM #54Web Hosting Master
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The average Joe as you quote.... @48-14 gets this right.
I have a mouse pad somewhere from WHT which reads, "I fought the mouse and the mouse won."
If this goes through.... I think it's time to update that mouse pad with, the mouse fought low standards on WHT and the lower standards won.0
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09-10-2013, 09:55 PM #55Web Hosting Master
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yeah. This is a downgrade for wht. It's just a terrible idea as many others have already explained.
ChadWebmasterbabble.com Webmaster Forum
Come join us at webmasterbabble.com1
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09-10-2013, 10:08 PM #56New Member
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- May 2013
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Wow, I have to say I'm so happy to see everybody is against this. I thought maybe everybody would be for it.
But "unlimited" is a fraudulent marketing promise. It should be illegal in this industry to say disk space and bandwidth are unlimited.
The OP said, "In 2005, WHT banned offers of unlimited bandwidth and disk space because there was no one able to provide it on a consistent and forthright manner. Technology has evolved to the point where banning unlimited bandwidth and disk space offers no longer serves our goal of protecting and educating consumers."
And there is someone who can provide it now? What changed? Are hard drives now given away for free? Has technology evolved to the point where hard drives now have unlimited storage capacity now? Is bandwidth now free? No one charges for it anymore? If so, it's the first I've heard of it!
I've been a web host for nearly 20 years and no one has told me how we can offer UNLIMITED space and bandwidth in a consistent and forthright manner. And I've never done so because I didn't want to be involved in that shady marketing practice. But my business has been greatly hurt by all the deceptive marketing that's endemic in this industry. People look at my packages and say, "Oh, you only get 20 Gbs of storage with that company, but over here you get UMLIMITED!!" And guess where they end up? And because of that I really admired WHT for standing up against these deceptive marketing practices.
Goldwing said, "there is no limit at all ( until you read the fine print )"
That's exactly right. If you have to read fine print it means your offer is deceptive. 'But don't worry, we'll explain it all in the fine print.' So the marketing says: "UNLIMITED SPACE AND BANDWIDTH". The fine print says, "well, not exactly unlimited... if you do this and that or use more than this - then it's actually limited." The bottom line is - it's ALWAYS limited. And it is therefore fraudulent marketing to claim that it's not.
So why would WHT now endorse and embrace this fraudulent and deceptive marketing practice - instead of taking the principled stand they've always taken? I've always had so much respect for WHT for standing up against this kind of practice.
If there was any such thing as unlimited, then why wouldn't Amazon and Google go for the $7.49 Godaddy plan!?
Unlimited Websites
Unlimited Bandwidth
Unlimited Disk Space
Unlimited Databases
Why are they spending all those millions of dollars a month - when they could get everything they need for just $7.49!?0
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09-10-2013, 11:04 PM #57Web Hosting Evangelist
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I like the idea for a separate sub-forum for Unlimited Only Offers, now what about closing the FreeWHT and letting them post their Free Hosting too? Give them their own sub-forum as well?
In all honesty though, either way you guys choose to do it...Make sure they are explaining their "Real Limits" to give "the average joe" a fair chance.Tyler S.
TheWareHive.com | Hosting Sites Since 2010
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09-10-2013, 11:07 PM #58Mostly Retired!
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Here's an idea -- if it's about money, and certain WHT higher-ups choosing to disregard the opinions of educated, long-time community members, set a mandatory minimum payment in advance. I make my yearly payment for premium membership because I work hard and am serious about the industry. If the unlimihosts can say the same, I see no reason why they can't afford $50 a year to demonstrate this same level of seriousness. Besides, that's about the average annual cost of a reseller account.
All this talk ... seems a little low-end to me.
Going through this thread almost made me cry -- like Ben Stein did after Nixon resigned. It feels like we long-term members have been kicked to the curb in favor of a new era of Kinder Hosts trying to make a quick buck while at the same time quietly insulting the years. Yes, years - I've spent learning at WHT before I so much as added a link to my signature.
If you ask me -- unless you've gone at least 4 days without sleep, at the end of which you still lie in bed, sleepless, staring at the ceiling, and hoping you've done right by your clients, it doesn't seem fair for a bunch of tweens on summer vacation to sweep in and collect a client based on false statements and careless business practices.
I've never once advertised on WHT, yet it has brought me new clients. I'll continue to let knowledge do the advertising for me. At least I can look in the mirror and know that I got my client base on my own, without making false statements, uncreative service approaches, or misleading promises.
Go ahead & open it to the kiddies. I'll be waiting in the Tech/Security forums....5
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09-10-2013, 11:55 PM #59Web Hosting Evangelist
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^^^wow...made me wanna cry there...well said!
Tyler S.
TheWareHive.com | Hosting Sites Since 2010
"Problems Of Today, Meet Solutions Of Tomorrow"
US East ~ Shared, Dedicated & Fully Managed VPS Solutions0
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09-11-2013, 01:40 AM #60Newbie
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When I read the email this afternoon my first thought was that is must be an advertising revenue decision. Meaning that not allowing "unlimited" advertisers is costing you too much. If so, sad...
Bottom line, there is no such thing, and therefore it's virtually a lie, just as it is only virtually unlimited. There is a trade off for those who offer "unlimited" disk space and bandwidth, and I choose not to deal with it. Shared hosting has enough issues in the first place.
"Unlimited" appeals to those who want something for nothing, those who think they deserve a free lunch. Who needs them, and why support those who cater to them?
The accounts I provide, like the host I buy my server space from, are very much limited. I sell my clients what they need, and most of all I sell them excellent service, just like the provider I buy from. Like I said there is always a quality/quantity trade off. I choose quality.
The biggest issue I deal with are clients who tell me: "So and so offers 'unlimited' bla, bla, bla..." To which I reply: "And why aren't you with them? I don't hold you to a contract." Suddenly they realize what's important.
As for the DIY crowd... let them all go to GoPapa and their whole inbred family. I can do without them and their want-something-for-nothing attitude.
Take a STAND WHT, don't cave!1
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09-11-2013, 02:09 AM #61Retired ***ulator
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73's, Kim
Everything happens for a reason I make up.1
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09-11-2013, 02:22 AM #621
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09-11-2013, 03:06 AM #63Best Customer Service..ALWAYS!
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So Inet(WHT) have basically just told it's members that their opinions mean nothing (as in the poll results), and they do not care about their members.
Are Inet in that much financial trouble that they need to lower themselves to this level.
What a slap in the face to it's members0
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09-11-2013, 04:07 AM #64
I only stopped posting for a few months and look what's happened... I knew I shouldn't have stopped posting :/ lol
Serious, I'm really shocked about WHT are soon to be allowing any provider to offer so-called "unlimited" hosting plans. It also means the small to medium sized web hosts will have even more less chance of having sticky threads in the Web Hosting Offers now, as it will 1) be full of big EIG brands all competing with one another (I can't even manage to get a sticky thread now and that's without any big EIG brands advertising there 2) only big EIG brands will be able to afford to advertise there, especially after WHT increases the pricing, which I'm sure they'll do due to the extra interest they will get from providers that could not advertise there before because of certain restrictions.
Well so much for helping consumers new to web hosting (those who fool for so-called "unlimited" services) and helping small to medium sized businesses. Now it's a case of allowing all the big brands to expand more (keep in mind that they can't even manage the client base they have now, I'm sure it'll be even worse once WHT allow so-called "unlimited" web hosting plans). Let's just let the small to medium sized hosts die out shall we...Last edited by HostXNow; 09-11-2013 at 04:10 AM.
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09-11-2013, 04:44 AM #650
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09-11-2013, 05:01 AM #66HostXNow - Shared Web Hosting | Semi Dedicated Hosting | Enterprise Reseller Hosting | VPS Hosting1
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09-11-2013, 05:07 AM #67Cloud Reseller Experts
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Yes, agreed, test it
And again I shall say I don't see a problem in this kind of advertisement, If you don't want to offer unlimited disk space that's fine. Let others (who thinks they can handle it) do it the way they want.
I mean why one should stop others offering a feature that they think they can handle? If they offer unlimited and later they suffer, they will change their minds and if they don't suffer then many others will change their minds0
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09-11-2013, 05:17 AM #68Disabled
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WHT has fallen into sin. Only God is unlimited.
#pray4WHT2
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09-11-2013, 06:03 AM #69Web Hosting Master
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So just what is established industry trends?
1) Providing misleading advertising that in some countries is construed as illegal
2) Providing a platform for the kiddie hosts to claim being a CEO of a multinational because their 12 year old Australian cousin made their logo
3) Now give credence to "unlimited" claims despite knowing full well that unlimited does not exist and is ALWAYS contracted out in the terms using a FUP, in this country it may breach 2 legal definitions, advertising standards and unfair contracts act.
Originally Posted by Fakher
Providing a platform for businesses to con people is good for the industry how?
There was a cartoon on this forum some time ago but I cant find it, it showed two restaurants one with a sign saying something like "all you can eat" $5 and another with "all you can eat plus an extra course" $5 - a huge queue was building up on the latter.
End users dont understand the technicalities of hosting and are easily swayed by unrealistic claims and when they get burned they dont separate out their own stupidity and class every host the same.
I have been hosting for 19 years and on this forum for nearly 14 I don't advertise on here and never have done ( not even a signature ) mostly for the above reasons, just not interested in getting tarred with the same brush.
This decision I am 100% sure will ultimately have a negative effect on the credibility of the forum albeit nothing that will directly affect me.Nil illegitimi carborundum
I'm getting old and don't do drugs. I get the same effect just standing up fast.0
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09-11-2013, 06:38 AM #70Disabled
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The thing of it is that offering unlimited disk space and bandwidth is an advertising parlour trick. Suddenly there is no longer any point to differentiating based on the instantiation of disk space and bandwidth allocations, i.e. it creates quite a bizarre scenario where web hosts can no longer sell based on the laws of physics.
Bless Ray Kurzweil, for the Technological Singularity has arrived! Infinite disk space, bandwidth, RAM and CPU power! My quantum web server is a perpetual motion machine u mad?
*infinite free cPanel licenses begin materializing ex nihilo*0
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09-11-2013, 07:17 AM #71Disabled
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09-11-2013, 08:39 AM #72Cloud Reseller Experts
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Unlimited hosting plans,
More or less it has started at WHT,
If you go through reseller hosting offers section, you ll see a feature (overselling enabled) in that long list of features offered by some well known hosts. And importantly they have good reviews (satisfied clients)over here at WHT.
Now what is overselling means? Allowing people to sell more apples then they have in their basket right?
Now unlimited feature is just the same if you can handle it, then just go for it.
And to other hosts who think this will hurt their business, I would say if a host can give a quality support and up-time with unlimited features at your rate, then either its time for you to step aside or you have to think out of the box rather then asking WHT team to stop them from advertising2
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09-11-2013, 09:20 AM #73█► AllWorldIT ~ ISP / Hosting Provider / Government / Carrier Solutions
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09-11-2013, 10:35 AM #74Web Hosting Master
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I think it is a great idea!!!
WHT has been going downhill for years, I think this is long over due.
Sometimes shooting yourself in the foot like with the 20something new (pointless) forums, is just not enough. Sometimes you have to hit something a bit more vital.
INET, think it is time for "out with the old(staff) and in with the new"?Technical Advisor for new A&E Series The Killing Season
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Starts November 5th!0
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09-11-2013, 10:38 AM #75Web Hosting Master
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Been doing that for a long time now. Explains why no one bothers to use premium section like before. It was expected and I am not disapointed. At the end of the day, corporate will cater for those who are spending dollah dollah billz and Inet will cater big boys.
Btw, since we have unlimited offers now, how are we going to see the shared hosting section? Everyone will be offering the exact same thing. Same cpanel, same addons, same crap, same goodies. Bye Bye Innovation.- Nexus Bytes LLC- Ryzen powered NVME VPS and web hosting, packed with perks and love!
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