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  1. #1
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    What country/datacenter is the best for data privacy?

    What countries have data protection laws? What's the best datacenter to store private data in without worrying about spies/leaks/NSA and stuff?

  2. #2
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    Doesnt exist
    It is truly scary how many taps, mirrors, etc the US, Chinese, etc have in place.

    Best place to store private data?
    On an encrypted DVD in your worst enemies septic tank, with his name and phone number on it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by serverian View Post
    What countries have data protection laws? What's the best datacenter to store private data in without worrying about spies/leaks/NSA and stuff?
    If *you* are based in the US, I would be very careful trying to circumvent US-based privacy laws. It's similar to operating an illegal Poker website in Grand Cayman, but living in the US - they'll still arrest you.

    I'd definitely definitely consult a lawyer if you're going down this road. (Even if you're not from the US, as it turns out, many countries have very similar laws.)
    Thanks,

    Brendan Diaz
    Connect: linkedin.com/in/brendandiaz

  4. #4
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    Try Switzerland.

  5. #5
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    Depends on the type of data you have.

    Politically sensitive? Very difficult, but doable. You'll need to speak with your wallet though.

    Financially sensitive? There are many offshore banking havens that can offer you this.

    Ultimately, it isn't the countries/jurisdictions you should be worried about. Consider the company you are doing business with. Will they roll over when the NSA/CIA/[any-3-letter-agency] contacts them or will they stand their ground and defend your right?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteTech View Post
    Depends on the type of data you have.

    Politically sensitive? Very difficult, but doable. You'll need to speak with your wallet though.

    Financially sensitive? There are many offshore banking havens that can offer you this.

    Ultimately, it isn't the countries/jurisdictions you should be worried about. Consider the company you are doing business with. Will they roll over when the NSA/CIA/[any-3-letter-agency] contacts them or will they stand their ground and defend your right?
    Only Russia and China (and some other select states) would stand up to the NSA/CIA.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by P4tch View Post
    Only Russia and China (and some other select states) would stand up to the NSA/CIA.
    Yeah... and in turn introduce their own surveillance program?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by P4tch View Post
    Only Russia and China (and some other select states) would stand up to the NSA/CIA.
    I honestly don't think they care.
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  9. #9
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    I am moving out of the US as well. I am focusing on Canada. Not sure what you need but Canada seems ready for us and are even marketing to us due to our government. I am probably going with myhosting.com but there are many. I just spent the better part of yesterday being ridiculed and accused of criminal activity by several WHT members because I said I was leaving the US. Nice to know how some providers do not take client data privacy seriously.

  10. #10
    Trust no one... It doesn't matter where you go really.. Just crypt the drives with sensitive data, set up secure communications to access this data (encrypted tunnels etc..), make access policies etc. and you are just fine, because then without your knowledge nothing will leak anyway...
    People think that if they change the country/location then all the problems magically go away, don't be fool. As i said before it's up to you to set up secure infrastructure. If they don't have court order then there is no way someone will get access to this data.. even if they have it then they will not access it without the key/password anyway (but you will go to jail probably if u will not disclose passwords for decrypting the drives).
    Trust me it's the ONLY way.

  11. #11
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    dev-O... that would be great, however, moving out of the country gives us a little more room to breathe simply because the feds cannot threaten those out of the country the same way they can mess with people in the country.

  12. #12
    Depends on charges if there are any... depends if you are "big player" or not.. etc.. You think if they really want to get data from that drives then country matters? It will take only a little more money/time/effort , that's all.. With filtering and collecting data on T-1 level, secret agreements made behind closed doors with other countries etc. privacy doesn't exist anymore. If You want privacy then crypt the drives, encrypt communication and secure the servers.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by serverian View Post
    What countries have data protection laws? What's the best datacenter to store private data in without worrying about spies/leaks/NSA and stuff?
    If you're looking for data protection, look for independently governed nations that have strong - and recently updated - privacy laws on the books. Jersey, Isle of Man come to mind. Be careful in places like Panama or Switzerland, though.

    Cayman Islands is talking about passing data protection laws too, and they have a new free trade zone there.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by FastReturn View Post
    Only Russia and China (and some other select states) would stand up to the NSA/CIA.
    NSA/CIA will hack into your servers and they know many backdoors/ security holes and etc... So, it makes no different where you put the server.

  15. #15
    Canada offers up a stable gov, great infrastructure, and diverse options for colo. And, most centers are located within 50 miles of a US border.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisedfloor View Post
    Canada offers up a stable gov, great infrastructure, and diverse options for colo. And, most centers are located within 50 miles of a US border.
    and most traffic passes via US exchange points and US networks, even traffic going from Canada to Canada. If you look at any major Canadian telco network map (Bell, Telus, Shaw, Allstream, etc) you will see significant portions of those networks located on US soil.

    and then there is Canadian government. Sure, not much has been disclosed about their activities but does that really mean there are no activities?

    if you want to keep something really secure there is only one way- destroy it. If that is not an option then the next best thing is to put it on paper and make sure it never existed in electronic form.

    If you really need something in electronic form then you have to build a two-level faraday cage so that you can get in and out without leaking RF. Plus take care to block light and sound waves.

    Of course none of that is practical, especially for communications. So you are left with what we call "internet". It really does not matter where you put your servers- if you are a target you will be owned by somebody.

  17. #17
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    Closest you'll get is a private island, even then your data will still get sniffed upon crossing any other border.

    If your network is not private, then neither is your data, as mentioned though if it's anything even slightly illegal seek advice - the governments are really making examples on the internet supporting/being involved in crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMDM
    It really does not matter where you put your servers- if you are a target you will be owned by somebody.
    Agreed, think of some of the big names that have been hit lately - Lavabit did very well with security though, but even then the agencies would have got the keys eventually.
    Last edited by iexo; 01-09-2014 at 12:55 AM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMDM View Post
    and then there is Canadian government. Sure, not much has been disclosed about their activities but does that really mean there are no activities?
    The activities are minimal, not necessarily due to policy but simply due to a lack of resources.

    We Canadians are also more critical of our government, as the mindset that criticizing your own country somehow means you're unpatriotic isn't very common on any side of the political spectrum. We also don't have nearly as many issues with partisanship, as we have more than two parties.
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  19. #19
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    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by FastReturn
    Only Russia and China (and some other select states) would stand up to the NSA/CIA.
    Sadly, I'd say that's generally true.

    Of course, that applies only to data/info that the Chinese and/or Russians aren't interested in themselves.

    But let's be real here. The NSA has wild resources and skills. If the US gov't (or any other medium or larger gov't) really wanted to crack into your machines, what chance do you honestly have of stopping them? If not by some 0-day exploit, by some other method?

    With tyrannical gov'ts one has to use a combination of strategies: keeping your head down, not attacting attention, avoiding them and their jurisdictions, etc. But in the end they still have a mad amount of resources and skills to target individuals. This is what makes the out-of-control nature of the US gov't so dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecureHostRichard
    If you're looking for data protection, look for independently governed nations that have strong - and recently updated - privacy laws on the books.

    Cayman Islands is talking about passing data protection laws too, and they have a new free trade zone there.
    We in the US have laws against torture, imprisoning people without charges and murder without due process. Heck, we even have anti-trust laws too. But does that matter? Does it stop the gov't from committing such crimes? Enforcing such laws and following the law is a completely different matter if the gov't chooses to ignore the law or some court invents some warped rationalization to break the law.

    If the US gov't decides that something is important enough to arm-twist a gov't about, do you honestly think that the Cayman Islands gov't or some other small country would be able to stand up to US pressure?

    As FastReturn said elsewhere, Russia and China (I'd add perhaps Germany and a couple of other countries in certain situations) seem to be the only ones standing up to the US government's global spying operations.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMDM
    It really does not matter where you put your servers- if you are a target you will be owned by somebody.
    I think the second half of that sentence is the key. If the tyrants want to, they'll own you.

    But I disagree with the first half of that sentence -- it does matter where you host your servers. It saddens me as an American to say this, but I feel the US should punished for its crimes -- and that means moving machines out of the US. Not only might that impress customers that you are serious about privacy, but hopefully it will send a message to our corrupt gov't that there are consequences for violating the 4th Amendment and norms of civilized behavior.
    Last edited by IntnsRed; 01-09-2014 at 10:38 AM. Reason: Combined replies into one post.
    A GNU/Linux newbie since 1992!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dev-0 View Post
    Trust no one... It doesn't matter where you go really.. Just crypt the drives with sensitive data, set up secure communications to access this data (encrypted tunnels etc..), make access policies etc. and you are just fine, because then without your knowledge nothing will leak anyway...
    People think that if they change the country/location then all the problems magically go away, don't be fool. As i said before it's up to you to set up secure infrastructure. If they don't have court order then there is no way someone will get access to this data.. even if they have it then they will not access it without the key/password anyway (but you will go to jail probably if u will not disclose passwords for decrypting the drives).
    Trust me it's the ONLY way.
    I second this motion. Design an architecture that protects your sensitive data in onsite storage arrays, and all of your public data/consumer facing content can be in regular data centers/colocated.

    It's not much different across continents though. Just as easily as hackers can crash Spamhaus, the US (or any gov't for that matter) can find access to your content if they want it bad enough. Better to stay off the map and keep your books clean to avoid scrutiny. There are thousands of American corporations handling data that the NSA would love, but they manage to protect it with well designed security architecture.
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  21. #21
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    Many of the FSU (Russia, Ukraine, etc) countries will not care or work with foreign entities as mentioned above.

    Panama seems to be a popular choice, although I think they would buckle under pressure and the US military basically installed all the infrastructure in country.

    Bolivia with Morales at the helm is not afraid to stand up to the US and has strict data privacy laws. I only know of one dc down there and the country is prone to earthquakes though...

  22. #22
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    If you want something safe and secured then don't share it at all nor ever upload it no where near the internet. The safest place would possibly be on a drive or disk that is encrypted and secured behind many passwords then placed in a safe hidden somewhere in the middle of the desert.

    Data is a very important role when it comes to privacy so does internet. The internet is where all computers meet each other think of it as aids it spreads line fire do dies anything on the internet .

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