View Poll Results: Should we allow Unlimited offers on WHT?

Voters
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  • Yes

    178 29.57%
  • No

    341 56.64%
  • No Preference (I'm good either way)

    34 5.65%
  • Yes - But I'll post recommended restrictions in the thread

    49 8.14%
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Results 101 to 125 of 504
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Orien View Post
    Unmetered bandwidth offers are actually allowed if a bandwidth cap or port speed is specified per our rules. There is no special treatment.
    Seems that is not the case. We offered unmetered bandwidth, ofcourse we also advertised we had 100mbps port so you could work out for yourself our true possible bandwidth.

    As mentioned stickies members are allowed to do this. I have had a couple of threads removed.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by David-Host Surf UK View Post
    Seems that is not the case. We offered unmetered bandwidth, ofcourse we also advertised we had 100mbps port so you could work out for yourself our true possible bandwidth.

    As mentioned stickies members are allowed to do this. I have had a couple of threads removed.
    To clarify, the rules for VPS & Dedicated vs Shared & Reseller are different. The latter doesn't permit unlimited or unmetered offers. The former does, with a cap. That should explain it, but feel free to open a ticket if you want to discuss your specific offers further.

    Stickies need to follow the same rules as other offer threads. If you see one you feel shouldn't be there, hit report

  3. #103
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    Absolutely not. When someone invents "unlimited" hard drives or something like that, then it would be possible.

  4. #104
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    It doesn't really matter to me either way but if someone is gonna post one they should be required to list specifics of their TOS and not just link to their TOS. Such as:

    % or amount of memory usage
    % of cpu usage
    how many running processes
    total max execution time on scripts if limited
    total inodes
    email sending limits
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  5. #105
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    So many haters in this thread.... it amazes me.

    Dennis was for unlimited last time I talked to him, Dennis runs the show. I say he does what he wants, the rest of the community will deal with it.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ionity View Post
    I think something like this could be somewhat reasonable, especially if you could have an interstitial page explaining that unlimited isn't really unlimited...
    We'd post something along the lines of ...
    Many shared hosting companies have moved away from providing published limits on the amount of disk space and bandwidth you can consume as part of your subscription to their service. Buyers should be aware that "unlimited" anything doesn't exist and should educate themselves on a hosts specifics terms of service in regards to the consumption of resources.
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by astutiumRob View Post
    The day after they bring out a DIMM providing unlimited memory and a Disk providing unlimited space and a NIC capable of unlimited speed, is the first day "unlimited" should be allowed in adverts, because only then could it be possible to deliver what's being advertised.
    Riiiight. Just like those unlimited emails, unlimited databases, unlimited redirects, unlimited ... you name it. There ain't no host that offers any of those that would actually allow it.
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by David-Host Surf UK View Post
    Seems that is not the case. We offered unmetered bandwidth, ofcourse we also advertised we had 100mbps port so you could work out for yourself our true possible bandwidth.

    As mentioned stickies members are allowed to do this. I have had a couple of threads removed.
    The rule states, "Unmetered bandwidth offers are allowed but must include a clear bandwidth cap."

    Saying you'd be "on a 100mbps port" isn't a clear bandwidth limit.
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by stablehost View Post
    So many haters in this thread.... it amazes me.

    Dennis was for unlimited last time I talked to him, Dennis runs the show. I say he does what he wants, the rest of the community will deal with it.
    It's just not the way I roll. I want input from staff. And most often I want input from members. We're all in this together.

    Of course, if I firmly believed that something on my mind would be the best for this community, I'd pull the trigger regardless. I've been around this industry a while. And I know a few things about communities.

    But I'd still want to hear everything anyone wanted to say.

    I do have something to add because I'm tired of hearing the antiquated "reasoning" of, "as soon as they build an unlimited hard drive ...". Right - We couldn't add another hard drive or move you to a different box or anything. The only option is to have an unlimited GB hard drive.
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue View Post
    It's just not the way I roll. I want input from staff. And most often I want input from members. We're all in this together.

    Of course, if I firmly believed that something on my mind would be the best for this community, I'd pull the trigger regardless. I've been around this industry a while. And I know a few things about communities.

    But I'd still want to hear everything anyone wanted to say.

    I do have something to add because I'm tired of hearing the antiquated "reasoning" of, "as soon as they build an unlimited hard drive ...". Right - We couldn't add another hard drive or move you to a different box or anything. The only option is to have an unlimited GB hard drive.
    Yeah, the people who are very against it have very silly reasons why they are against it, I haven't seen a legit good reason yet.

    Funny enough, as you pointed out, most of the people who are against it, offer unlimited email addresses, unlimited databases, etc.

    Web hosting is a fast changing market, you have to roll with the punches, even if you don't agree with them.

    Letting other people offer unlimited doesn't hurt anyone. Someone offering 50GB of disk space oversells as much as someone who offers unlimited.

    People need to educate themselves on honest and reliable hosts, there's plenty of them who currently offer unlimited and do it just fine.

  11. #111
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    My view on this.

    Unlimited disk space should not be allowed, no matter the kind of service advertised.
    Unmetered bandwidth should be allowed but only with dedicated servers or with VPS.

    However I think WHT should avoid any unlimited threads. The only reason WHT stands above all other hosting forums is because they are the only serious forum (to some extent). Avoiding all the crap unlimited lies can bring is worth more than allowing some special plans from serious providers.
    WHT should think about it's community in the long term and the quality of it's content and not focus on pleasing advertisers.

    Another option would be to allow Paid unlimited posts with some kind of form with the detailed explanation of the limits. In that way WHT could ensure the reader is not lied to.

    WHT is great, please keep it that way
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue View Post

    "I do have something to add because I'm tired of hearing the antiquated "reasoning" of, "as soon as they build an unlimited hard drive ...". Right - We couldn't add another hard drive or move you to a different box or anything. The only option is to have an unlimited GB hard drive. "
    Yeah, we can add more hard drives, and that is right, but if you ask me, that is not something Which need to be allowed on WHT. There is so many forums where you can find "unlimited offers." WHT must be different, as it is now.

  13. #113
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    At the end of the day every hosting provider is sharing resources bandwidth or storage. If your network is properly designed & configured your clients will be happy.

    I dont understand why you people like being restricted to what someone tells you what you can and cant do.
    Being a hosting provider or an ISP is about overselling. If you oversell and your network isnt setup properly you will screw yourself. Your clients will hate you and quit. If you offer something back it up.

    Lets move forward and change the rules around this place. The rules are outdated.

    Curious to all the people who are against this unmetered bandwidth change:

    1. Do you guys like limits on your cell phone providers?

    2. Do you like being billed for overages in Mins & Data per month when you exceed the 1-5GB limit?

    The nature of the beast is that every 99 out of 100 clients are 'normal' bandwidth users. But there is always 1 heavy user. At the end of the day the bandwidth balances itself out. Give or take a couple in my generic definition of bandwidth overselling 101.

    P.S. WHT admins: Its pretty sad that my replies to this post have been <censored> beyond ridiculousness..Please ease up a bit.
    Thanks,
    Oplink.net - sales@oplink.net - 281-445-9800

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue View Post
    ...I do have something to add because I'm tired of hearing the antiquated "reasoning" of, "as soon as they build an unlimited hard drive ...". Right - We couldn't add another hard drive or move you to a different box or anything. The only option is to have an unlimited GB hard drive.
    Might as well stop reading this thread now, no response could be better than that, especially since I've admittedly used the analogy for ages.

    I happened to be reading some non-WHT adverts this morning, and I found a provider with no limitations for any shared service, with this in the AUP. What might everyone's opinion be on the verbiage of this category?

    RESOURCE POLICY
    Resources are defined as bandwidth and/or processor utilization. $PROVIDER may implement the following policy to its sole discretion: When a website is found to be monopolizing the resources available, $PROVIDER reserves the right to suspend that site immediately. This policy is only implemented in extreme circumstances and is intended to prevent the misuse of our servers.

    Seems a tad generic, and a bit on the curt side IMO...?

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoftWareRevue View Post
    Right - We couldn't add another hard drive or move you to a different box or anything. The only option is to have an unlimited GB hard drive.
    So if I bought an unlimited hosting package for $5.95 a month a host would be OK with adding additional drives if I needed 16Tb of space for a wedding photography business, which would have just very large static images? The argument made when WHT started is still valid. Just because we have more space available than ever in hard drives doesn't change the argument.

    Some ancient cultures had no concept of 0; modern ones have a problem with infinity.

    Offering unlimited as any part of a service (email accounts, redirects, disk space, etc.) takes the easy way out. Hosts should be able to calculate how much they want to oversell each service and offer that number.

  16. #116
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    Sounds like a good website language to me. "No Hidden AUP/SLA Bandwidth terms" or something of that nature.

    The comments are funny to this post. People are saying unlimited bandwidth is impossible.

    Newsflash NOTHING is impossible.
    Thanks,
    Oplink.net - sales@oplink.net - 281-445-9800

  17. #117
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    Honestly, who cares? Who cares! I don't care if someone advertises unlimited disk space or bandwidth! It's not like potential customers can't find "those" providers without WHT. Hell, most of the largest shared hosting providers offer unlimited disk space and don't advertise on WHT so they are doing just fine.

    I just don't see why people are so against allowing companies to advertise unlimited disk space. Does it affect you? Will letting a provider offer unlimited disk space on this forum bring some sort of negativity here? Is it that bad of an idea, really?! People already discuss the same unlimited providers in the web hosting forum! Another thing, who cares what the rules are with those unlimited providers and what you can or can't host and whether or not it's really unlimited. Worry about your own businesses!

    I say let the unlimited companies advertise here just to spite everyone who is against it because they are worried it's going to take customers away from them. That's the only reason I can think of... although people are getting pretty clever to try and deflect from that. Oh, but there are no unlimited hard drives!

  18. #118
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    As I stated earlier, years ago, I was adamantly against unlimited hosts mainly because of the hardware etc at the time. As technology has evolved, my views have softened, and I do not see à problem with hosts who have the necessary resources/network offering unlimited plans.

    The only concern I have is if WHT allowed unlimited hosting plans to be posted, would it result in hundreds of posts by hosts that can not possibly support it, and resulting in loads of dissatisfied clients, thus lowering the reputation of WHT. Look at other forums that allow it, and are inundated with the unlimited everything for only $1, and see the horror stories.

    I realise that it does happen on WHT from time to time, unavoidable with it being a open forum, but WHT are quite good at outing the bad eggs. My fear is it will become an avalanche, WHT will get swamped with them, and it's reputation will suffer.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    ...because they are worried it's going to take customers away from them. That's the only reason I can think of... although people are getting pretty clever to try and deflect from that. Oh, but there are no unlimited hard drives!
    My worry would be more along the lines of losing customers as the result of switching to an unlimited format. But as I've mentioned, I tend to be more appreciative of those providers who take the time to create a package. Show me something besides "unlimited disk space, bandwidth, email, subdomains, Softaculous".

    Perhaps I'm simply set in my belief that it's a turn-off. Maybe someday I'll change my opinion, but for now, I'm uncomfortable with the whole format.

  20. #120
    Fraud**
    /frôd/
    Noun
    Wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
    A person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.
    Unlimited is a lie, so I'm going to have to vote no. It's hard enough to find legitimate reviews and advertising for hosts without having the one reputable source for that allow advertising of offers that are essentially fraudulent.

    The very definition of fraud fits nicely into what unlimited offers are. A customer can be happy with the service and a fraud was still committed.
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  21. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by bwb View Post
    The problem is disk space and bandwidth don't matter any longer.

    It would be like enforcing a ban on propeller airplanes in the cold war. It does nothing.

    What is the goal of that deal section? To make an idealistic ethical statement about the state of modern marketing and the legal profession in the USA? Or is it to screen companies so that users end up with good companies that are dependable and provide good service?

    Thanks, Ben
    Ethically, how is WHT to have any more credibility than the many 'host review sites' (pay for placement), if they change their policy to allow what is obviously fraudulent offers? There are no two ways about it, offering something which is physically impossible to provide is fraud. The small print may keep such a host out of legal trouble, but I hold WHT to a higher standard than that.

    I agree that disk space and bandwidth for shared hosts are largely irrelevant now, but if you want to advertise on WHT today, you have to take the high road and find a meaningful way to differentiate yourself. Taking the easy way out by offering the impossible knowing 99% of people will never discover the lie may be ok somewhere else, but I'm proud to be part of a community with the ethical standards to say 'not here'.
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  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    Ethically, how is WHT to have any more credibility than the many 'host review sites' (pay for placement), if they change their policy to allow what is obviously fraudulent offers? There are no two ways about it, offering something which is physically impossible to provide is fraud. The small print may keep such a host out of legal trouble, but I hold WHT to a higher standard than that.

    I agree that disk space and bandwidth for shared hosts are largely irrelevant now, but if you want to advertise on WHT today, you have to take the high road and find a meaningful way to differentiate yourself. Taking the easy way out by offering the impossible knowing 99% of people will never discover the lie may be ok somewhere else, but I'm proud to be part of a community with the ethical standards to say 'not here'.
    How is it ethical to allow 999 TB offers on shared hosting, or hell even 1 TB disk space offers, while keeping unlimited out? At least with unlimited hosting we could educate users.
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven F View Post
    How is it ethical to allow 999 TB offers on shared hosting, or hell even 1 TB disk space offers, while keeping unlimited out? At least with unlimited hosting we could educate users.
    You hope that WHT with it's viewer-reach and standards tightens the rules on adverts (which can only improve the industry and stop quite so many fly-by-nights) by restricting adverts to only what you can g'tee a client can actually use
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  24. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven F View Post
    How is it ethical to allow 999 TB offers on shared hosting, or hell even 1 TB disk space offers, while keeping unlimited out? At least with unlimited hosting we could educate users.
    The main difference is one of enforcement. It is hard to prove that a 1TB offer is fraudulent (even if it is likely to be so). There is no doubt whatsoever that an unlimited offer is inaccurate (to put it mildly). It is like saying that we should not arrest someone for committing crime X even though we can prove crime X was committed by that person, simply because someone else probably (but cannot be proved to have) committed crime X and we haven't arrested them. I'm sorry but I don't agree with that logic.

    People do bring up a good point that unlimited email addresses and databases are offered which are also strictly speaking impossible. I suppose the difference is, that a normal person in the course of using their service as a reasonable person can expect it to function, will never hit the limit of "unlimited" email addresses. Say the OS blows up in a fire past 1 million email addresses hosted on someone's account. The person who attempted to use 1 million email addresses will not be surprised at all when this happens. Even if that person doesn't expect or understand the limit behind "unlimited", the limit was imposed by the limits of the software / OS, and not by the limits of the host, and so what was offered was in fact unlimited at least insofar as what anyone could possibly provide.

    On the other hand, someone who uploads 50gb of thumbnail images for their image host (something I see regularly on our dedicated servers), WILL be surprised when their unlimited host kicks them out. Not only will they be surprised, but it is likely to happen, that such a user will come along, try to use the service in the way it was advertised, and be disappointed. Maybe in 2013 only 1-2% of users will be disappointed whereas in 2003 10% would be disappointed by the misleading claims, but it still is a misleading claim intended to fraudulently earn business. We see customers regularly moving up from unlimited hosts to dedicated servers who had been misled into believing that the unlimited host would be appropriate to their needs. Maybe a "limited" host whose limits were in line with the customers needs would have been appropriate. We'll never know because they never earned the business, the fraudulent unlimited host did. Yes, looking at you "big boys" (hostgator, dreamhost, etc).
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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    Ethically, how is WHT to have any more credibility than the many 'host review sites' (pay for placement), if they change their policy to allow what is obviously fraudulent offers? There are no two ways about it, offering something which is physically impossible to provide is fraud. The small print may keep such a host out of legal trouble, but I hold WHT to a higher standard than that.

    I agree that disk space and bandwidth for shared hosts are largely irrelevant now, but if you want to advertise on WHT today, you have to take the high road and find a meaningful way to differentiate yourself. Taking the easy way out by offering the impossible knowing 99% of people will never discover the lie may be ok somewhere else, but I'm proud to be part of a community with the ethical standards to say 'not here'.
    I really agree with this.

    I think that WHT needs to do one of two things.

    1) Just let it be a free-for-all and NOT impose any rules, stipulations, etc. and just make it known to the reader that there are no rules, verifications, or requirements to make the posts. This way WHT is abstracted from the situation 100%, or;

    2) Create some actual requirements to the advertising sections (all of them). With some requirements for the posting title (i.e. not a 10Gbps/128GB Ram / 40 SSD @ $30/mo type of subject being allowed. A template that goes at the top of the post with some of the important details.

    Such as:

    What the offer is
    Where the offer is located
    When the offer expires
    the terms and conditions of the offer (new customers only, existing customers, can customer buy more at this price, etc)
    Link to the Terms of Service
    Link to the Privacy Policy
    Details of the network, facility
    who owns the equipment

    all this stuff. So that the users can truly understand what it is they are paying for. Some half baked rules about allowing vs. not allowing unlimited is not really the problem.

    Would this help some hosts? Yes!.. Would this hurt some hosts? Yes. Would the pageviews go down initially? Maybe

    Would this add more longer term value and start attracting more larger paying customers to this site? Yes!

    If you go look at other forums.. They sell products/services (maybe not web hosting), and it is not always a race to the bottom on price (like it mostly is here).

    I think because there is a lot of stuff like that in the offers section, a lot of people simply leave this site and don't come back, and if there was a better way to understand what you are getting that more people would come to this site, and there would be more conversions.

    Just like there should be a reputation point system or something that allows the potential buyer to quickly see that with the hosts (or even sort the offers by this number...

    with a few changes you could make this place a real marketplace for much larger projects, and that would change to more ad sales at a higher value ;-)
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