View Poll Results: Should we allow Unlimited offers on WHT?
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02-10-2013, 08:27 AM #51Nerf Herder
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The problem is disk space and bandwidth don't matter any longer.
It would be like enforcing a ban on propeller airplanes in the cold war. It does nothing.
What is the goal of that deal section? To make an idealistic ethical statement about the state of modern marketing and the legal profession in the USA? Or is it to screen companies so that users end up with good companies that are dependable and provide good service?
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02-10-2013, 09:16 AM #52Junior Guru Wannabe
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IMHO people who visit this website, read these posts are not your "average" Joe looking for a web host. Here I would think we could at least be totally honest about the products we are promoting. I believe we owe that to the people who are not in the business who visit here.
Maybe I'm living in another world believing so, but then I do not believe in labeling products with the phrase "cheap" pricing but "competitive" pricing instead. The other guy might have something cheap but I have something of value priced competitively.
I voted to keep it at no because in our hearts of hearts we do know there is no such thing as unlimited anything...
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02-10-2013, 10:51 AM #53Hello World
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The day you allow "unlimited" on WHT is the day the offers section will be "Unlimited, Unlimited, Unlimited"
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02-10-2013, 11:41 AM #54Dennis Johnson
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There better be something as unlimited, or else a lot of hosts are deceiving us all.
It's hard to find a provider that doesn't offer unlimited something. Whether it's email addresses or databases or a myriad of options, most hosts offer unlimited something. So surely it must exist?There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.
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02-10-2013, 12:26 PM #55Hello World
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02-10-2013, 12:28 PM #56Junior Guru Wannabe
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02-10-2013, 12:33 PM #57Web Hosting Master
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02-10-2013, 02:30 PM #58Junior Guru Wannabe
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No , UNLIMITED is just a word for advertising . because its not really unlimited and has a hidden restrictions that showed up when you pay .
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02-10-2013, 03:06 PM #59Junior Guru Wannabe
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Unlimited or Unmetered... I don't have as much issue with unmetered, because it's saying "we're not counting what you're using" (which is still not quite right since there generally is some kind of limitation, but it's better than the entirely false "unlimited").
In my view, at least how the industry is now, if unlimited hosts can advertise here, it will have a number of detrimental effects on hosts and clients. Look at the scenario;
Person ends up here looking through the hosting deals and looks at Powweb offering unlimited everything for $3.88/month vs any realistic host offering say $5/month for 1GB of space and a set traffic limit. Every consumer who doesn't understand the difference in service is jumping on the unlimited super awesome deal!
The result will be unhappy clients with slow service, and a drop in business for the good REALISTIC hosting companies that have been here, helping people for years. WHT is a place to get real, honest information and services, change that and the respect this place gets will go down as well.
I vote no.
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02-10-2013, 03:39 PM #60Junior Guru Wannabe
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That is true, people who visit this site IMHO are not your typical consumer. This is a site that is populated by mostly professionals in the Web Hosting field. As such, people who are potential clients who visit looking for more information DESERVE to be given accurate, factual information to aid them in making a decision concerning the various services this industry has to offer.
By "hypeing" the usual items you see in the ad's do not do justice to us or to a potential client.
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02-10-2013, 05:21 PM #61Web Hosting Master
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I vote no.
I think that if you allow unlimited in the advertising forums then every post will be unlimited this and unlimited that.
Unlimited providers impose limits on the unlimited plans so why not just leave it that the adverts have defined disk space and bandwidth limits or you would only have to show some other limit/s in the adverts which would probably be harder for new users to understand.
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02-10-2013, 05:28 PM #62Web Hosting Guru
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I do firmly believe unlimited posts should be allowed. Having "Unlimited" hosting has a negative connotation associated with it, as the host is overselling and immediately they must provide bad service. There are many quality hosts out there that offer unlimited hosting.
Hosting companies offer unlimited as a marketing tactic, to appeal to more individuals. This is changing with the times and is likely not going to revert to hard limits on disk/bandwidth in the future. Many people also assume that the host places no limits or restrictions on the account, which is also untrue. With new advances in technology with CloudLinux and BetterLinux, the days of having unstable/bad hosting on an unlimited plan is slowly becoming the past.
Most people choose a plan based on how much disk/bandwidth they expect to consume, which for the large majority of people is irrelevant, as they will never meet those limits. Therefore by leveling the playing field with other companies this eliminates the clients from choosing a host simply based on the price/disk/bandwidth associated with the plan.
Essentially, WHT is penalizing hosting companies who understand the market changes, and they don't want to lose customers from the bigger guys that are offering unlimited hosting. This evens the playing field, and then all of a sudden the companies aren't competing with each other based on numbers, but rather it would force the customer to look at quality/support/uptime which are the true factors a client should base their decision on.
Unlimited used to mean you were a cheap host, with bad service, just trying to get more customers. However as stated before with new technology it is now possible to offer unlimited hosting without having your server crash, or worry about clients overconsuming resources.
Seemingly one of the more controversial things about unlimited hosting is that the limits are not advertised, and instead they are placed inside the Terms of Service, and they include Inode limits, CPU Limits, Connection limits, etc.. Hosts with set disk/bandwidth services have the same limits, only they are losing a portion of their business to their competitor that offers unlimited. Especially when the majority of customers never reach their plan limits, why have them? Do you really think that limited hosts make more money, by forcing customers to pay them more money when they reach their 5GB disk limit vs the amount of money that host probably loses from customers who never signed up with them in the first place?
If one thinks offering unlimited hosting is fraud, let me flip the equation for you. If I signup for a host and I reach the disk space or the bandwidth limit, that host is going to force me to upgrade to a higher plan with more resources. The hosting company is paying pennies on the dollar in comparison to what it costs them for that additional usage I need vs what it costs me to upgrade to that new plan. In comparison, unlimited hosting companies only force the customer to upgrade when they actually reach CPU or File size limits that would adversely affect the companies ability to make a profit, or that customer affects other customers on that server. A customer can consume 50gb of disk space and consume no CPU, and have 100MB of disk usage and consume enough CPU to crash the server. So limiting based on numbers is another way to get customers to pay you more money when they aren't necessarily costing you anymore money.
Last note, the shared hosting offers forum is one of the few safe-havens from unlimited hosts, and is one of just a handful of safe havens that allow the smaller hosts to advertise without competing against unlimited hosts. While from a greater perspective, the limits I think are still largely irrelevant, to offer unlimited ads next to their ads would effectively kill quite a few small hosting companies. Therefore perhaps it would be a better idea to create a separate forum for Unlimited Shared Hosting Offers and put a disclaimer that gives each visitors on that forum which explains the difference between the two and let the consumer make their own decision when they have all the facts.Cody McLain
Founder of PacificHost / AptHost
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02-10-2013, 06:59 PM #63Web Hosting Master
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Yes. It's 2013, not 2003.
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02-10-2013, 09:06 PM #64Disabled
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Although I do understand the point you're making that there are many quality unlimited hosts out there, the ratio of bad unlimited hosts vs. legitimate good unlimited hosts is terrible. I'd imagine it being somewhere around a 500:1 ratio, and I am seriously not joking when I say this.
To the average non-tech savvy, 13 year year old business prodigy, starting a hosting company and spamming 'unlimited' for $1 seems like a good plan to 'get rich quick' with their low allowance. We here all talk about 'fly by night' hosts and how they help to saturate and ruin this industry one way or another, and allowing unlimited hosting offers in WHT would play a huge role in saturating this industry even more.
You talk about how this change would impact small web hosting companies and deprive them of business, but what about you guys? You'll be impacted just as much, if not worse and I can guarantee you that if this rule is lifted, within the first week you'll see ads saying "$1/month unlimited hosting!!! best hosting!!!! get it now!!!!" "$5/year unlimited disk space ssd hosting!!!! get your second year free!". Now, I understand that unlimited hosting mainly targets the non tech-savvy mind, so what makes you think that the average guy won't go for the $5/year deal?
Day in and day out there complaint threads spring up on WHT forums and many other community forums, and the majority of them are associated with unlimited hosting providers. Even if such a thing could exist peacefully in the environment that pro-unlimited hosts seem to depict, no matter what you can't control the inevitable fact that people take advantage of other people who don't know any better.
Now, before anybody says "This can be associated with hosts offering 2TB of disk space as well", at least that is giving clients the idea that the host isn't creating an atmosphere where everything is seen as 'unlimited'. Unlimited hosting creates an unfair, deceiving atmosphere for unsuspecting customers making them think that other resources are unlimited as well, such as CPU and RAM.
In conclusion to everything that I've stated above, or the "tl;dr" version, allowing unlimited hosting offers would
1. Further saturate the web hosting industry and deprive business from not only small limited web hosting companies, but large corporate unlimited hosting companies as well.
2. Cause a rise in fly-by-night hosts
3. Deceive and pollute non tech savvy minds with lies, lies and even more lies
4. Set the stage for negative review threads to be posted on the forums on an every other day basis
That's all I have to say about this for now.
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02-10-2013, 09:16 PM #65Disabled
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If this was ever to be added, I think that you should make the forum an extra for unlimited hosting AND make a user have been on WHT for like 3month or more with atleast over 50 posts, maybe that would somewhat stop the 'fly by night' hosts, but who knows.
With CloudLinux around, I think that unlimited or limited hosting - webhosts these days still are settings limits on shared accounts. So I don't really see much difference.
Another thing you could do with unlimited forums, make webhosts whom put limits in place for 'unlimited' screen shot / let s mod/admin from WHT take a look at the limits to make sure they're fair for everyone.
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02-10-2013, 09:27 PM #66Junior Guru Wannabe
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As a designer who deals directly with small business people, in a different way than hosting companies do, I can tell you from experience, tons of them come to me thinking they made the best deal ever by getting their domain and signing up for the cheapest unlimited hosting plan they found. Hosting is hosting to them. Over time they usually learn, but not always. I've had clients come to me, signed up on fatcow, where the site would continously timeout when I was trying to edit a page on their wordpress site...
If unlimited gets advertised here, every realistic host had better very realistically be prepared for a good percentage drop in sign ups that originate here. While members here are more savvy, anybody searching the internet for hosting offers can end up here reading the offers, and when those people find "$2.99 a month, unlimited everything and 2nd year free, and free domain for life!!!" a lot of them will be all over that like a fat kid on cake.
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02-10-2013, 11:45 PM #67Web Hosting Master
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02-11-2013, 03:03 AM #68Web Hosting Master
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This is THE hot topic and I will have to sit down to read all of this.
I voted no. My reasoning;
1. The headaches it has caused for the average customer, even though they accepted the TOS to use the service. Did they truly know what they accepted?
2. People now believe that these hosts that offer shoddy service ARE the only hosts out there and MUST use one of them because the other sheeple use them too .
I'm changing my offerings and taking out "unlimited" references. It could almost be a contradiction even though it makes sense to us (unlimited space = no, unlimited database = yes till the end of time). The direction I'm taking, it's a wasted effort. I will inform someone if requested, but I've cut back on my unlimited rants.
My rants were fueled from seeing customers getting burnt many times and almost having to save them from the lies that were taught to them.
It was also fueled by becoming a member of WHT and seeing a whole other spectrum of quality. Hosts with limits that offer quality. Customers and other hosts spreading good words. I know within some of those good words "may" have some politics behind them, but it's small percentage compared to the unlimited junk and payouts.
It's also fueled by unlimited hosts and some marketers telling everyone to do a one-click WP install and never worry again...build your platform of many readers on an unsecured system.
It's also fueled by my working in music for many years and watching it fall apart to garbage music. One hit wonders from youtube, similar to fly by night hosts....young artists with no respect of the industry, similar to kiddie hosts.....people being split with likes and dislikes about THE big artist, similar to the love/hate people have for EIG hosts. Everyone will have bad things to say about popular artists now, but no one said bad things about great artists from the past. I don't hear people bad-mouthing The Stones or Beatles, never bad mouthing Janice Joplin or Bob Marley...why....quality. They gained millions of fans from quality music, as a host (or any company) should gain millions of customers by providing good service without lying from the minute the person signed up.
I think that will be my last unlimited rant for 2013 since the thread topic is related as such. I had issues with another member on here related to this topic, and I hope they can see the truce in my words, but also understand that what they think of me and my past was not some little after-school project. I was far beyond what this person perceived of my talents, and might have confused me with those that did this as a past time. I have no way of describing what I've done without making it sound like I have a super-ego, so I will leave it alone and say that I can only give what I expect for myself. You give me great honest service, I will give you great honest service and promote it. Sell me lies and argue about it, well.......██ WPCYCLE MANAGED WORDPRESS WEB HOSTING ██
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02-11-2013, 03:14 AM #69Cloud & Web Hosting Specialist
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I voted NO.
Unless a restriction is in place where the hosting provider must provide details on their resource restrictions (mainly CPU and RAM) publicly within the WHT advertisement.
If possible, WHT should also encourage hosting providers to provide details on the number of accounts hosted on each server as well as the server specifications that they use.
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02-11-2013, 03:17 AM #70Web Hosting Master
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02-11-2013, 04:08 AM #71Web Hosting Master
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Well said. I've this argument many times on here and the words from designers seem to not count. That Is why I took the next step and hosted the clients I work with. As you said, some jobs will come to us where the client was already setup on such hosts. I can't even described my frustrations with dealing with these hosts "tech" support thinking about the nightmare the client must have gone through. If I make a good site, I don't want it on a bad host. Makes me and the client look bad. Just like music. Why make good music and put a bad signer on it.
There was another similar thread recently and a design firm said they WILL NOT deal with any clients that had hosting with go daddy or anything similar and I agree. You spend far less to almost no time dealing with issues once a site is placed on a good host.
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02-11-2013, 04:56 AM #72Web Hosting Master
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I voted yes, simply put WHT is a strange animal. On one hand they don't allow unlimited advertisments and on the other it's fine to offer a $10 per month reseller with 500GB disk space. What's the difference? They are both unrealistic and can't be fulfilled.
Those that can't manage it properly will disappear soon enough.
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02-11-2013, 05:45 AM #73Mr. Infraction & OFF Topic
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so how much people voted No ?
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02-11-2013, 06:04 AM #74
Click on poll results
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02-11-2013, 06:18 AM #75Mr. Infraction & OFF Topic
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Oh thank you very much
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